Talk: Community Portal/Archive 2

Welcome

Please make sure you read, abide by, and edit or remove any existing articles which violate the new TibiaWiki Policy.

Thanks! --Erig 05:01, 19 May 2005 (EDT)

User badges - new feature!

Hello! Your friendly local product manager here :)

I'd like to take a moment to tell you about a new feature we're enabling on your wiki, which we'd love to get your feedback on - "user badges".

With user badges you can tell everyone about the cool things you are doing on this wiki by:

Adding it to your MySpace or Facebook profiles...or anywhere else you have a profile on the web
Adding it to your forum signatures
Adding it to your blog, homepage or other personalized site

To create your customized badge, head to your Special:Preferences page and click on the "User badge" tab. There you can change the look and feel of the badge to suit your personality. A couple of my own badges are shown below:

We would love to hear about what you want to showcase on the badge in the future and value your feedback. Let us know what you think below.

Visit Help:User badge for more detailed info on this feature!

Thanks, Kirkburn (talk) 00:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Feedback

It looks OK but there are a few concerns/doubts/comments I have:

I don't know of many people who use MySpace and play Tibia, so testing with this Wikia community isn't the best option,
The TibiaWiki logo does not go well with the style. It works nicely for the Diablo wiki, but well, look at it for yourself...
The tag links to the main page of the wiki, why would we want to link to the main page of the wiki? if I have it on my user page, something tells me that the user will already BE on the wiki, where's the logic behind the link?
The only notable feature of this is to have it on your user page, which could more or less be done with markup.
People using TibiaWiki to blog or otherwise show off is a growing problem, you should run a script to find people with at least 80% of their total edits as user pages... It won't be a small list.
Some forums, including that of the game, do not allow HTML in posts/signatures. Which diminishes the worth of it significantly.
Left aligning the header text makes it invisible/behind the image...

If we could have our own styles, that would be a lot better... but I understand that might cause more server load, etcetc the usual... -- Sixorish 01:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

After reading and seeing this here is my feedback. First, what would be the purpose of tibiawiki users to e.g. put this user badge in their tibia/tibianews/tibiacity/etc. forum signature? If it would only be marketing/ad for tibiawiki that would be ok but why is the amount of user edits shown? That makes it feel like editing a wiki is a competition, the more edits the better. I certainly do NOT agree with that, a small amount of good edits is way better than a lot of bad edits. Like, if you are a higher level (150+) and you add a rare demon boss monster drop on the wiki, this information is more valuable than other information because not everybody could kill the demon boss.
After discussing the intentions here is something about the logo itself. It looks pretty cool, but unfortunately our image is not square, which makes it look very bad. @Sixorish, I do not think this user badge is intended to put on your tibiawiki userpage, no information on the badge would be of any significance. Also, I'm quite interested in such a script, can it be done here? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 08:59, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Taking my basic signature as an example for this wiki, and responding to Sixorish's points:

Regarding testing location - this is likely to be rolled out across all Wikia, so we just want as much feedback as possible.
We have a known issue where the aspect ratio for signatures is not preserved (which affects your badges). However, I can also understand why the logo for this wiki is a little different to the others (being a rectangular, opaque block). Any ideas on how to improve?
Do you suggest it links to the user page? We want it to be consistent wherever you use it, so having it work differently in different places might be a bit confusing.
For location, it's for use in multiple places, not just on Wikia - indeed, the main focus of the product was not for use on Wikia, but it was an easy addition, so we went for it :)
I *think* the edit count is just for content namespaces, though I may be wrong.
Those forums (that disable HTML) are evil :P It's not really something we can work around.
You can reposition the image too - see the right hand side of the preferences page.

Are there any specific styles you prefer? Linking to examples may help, or just some general thoughts. Thanks! Kirkburn (talk) 00:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Bennie's edit count issue: it's a fair point, but there isn't really much else that we can simply implement to allow users to "show off". Naturally, we don't want to encourage spamming, but we also don't think this addition is 'big' enough for it to cause that kind of encouragement. Have you any ideas for what else you would like to show on on your badge? Kirkburn (talk) 00:31, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

This is exactly why we need feedback. Though we can't make everyone happy, we can certainly try. @ Bennie's point - would you rather have article count highlighted? We would love to know what you are most proud of. -- Doug (talk) 00:37, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, first I would suggest you don't resize by a fixed height and width for the logo, use just one and the other will automatically be resized without distorting the image. Then, put the images on a different row, as in - not overlapping the title.

TibiaWiki
	...

(a quick example) but, if I may ask, why don't you allow a user to fully customize it? is there a technical reason? (by this I mean have the structure and then make all of the styles set by the preferences...) -- Sixorish 01:17, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Technical, basically - we have to provide options for everything, so it's a balancing act of ease of use versus many options. That design is pretty nice, we'll definitely look at that possibility. Kirkburn (talk) 21:51, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I do not know an alternative to edit count, but if the user name space is left out it becomes more interesting for me. I do think the wikia staff - in general - works great, every now and then you come up with new stuff. So if the image issue is fixed it probably is good enough already. Keep up the good work ;) ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 13:30, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Kirkburn (talk) 21:51, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Bureacrats and Rollback

Hello everybody!
As you can read here we are trying to improve protection against vandalism with the idea of creating a rollback group as one option. In order to do this we will need an active bureacrat who can add/remove users to this group. Erig has no objection against this. Do you, the tibiawiki community, have any objections? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 17:00, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Whatever helps Tibiawiki I will support. :) beejay 17:53, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Agree too.
--Kwigon the sharpshooter 18:09, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I received the email, and I'm all for rollback position and promoting another bureaucrat. I can't, however, be the one who is promoted to bureaucrat primarily because I would rather not have the burden of responsibility placed upon me (besides, I'm largely biased). So if a decision of who gets it is made, go for it. -- Sixorish 17:10, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok, you don't have to carry the burden, on a side note, why do you think you would be biased? According to wikipedia "views could not be taken as being neutral or objective", I think there are a few to no people who are really objective, I mean your opinion gets influenced by everything you see or hear. Thanks for the feedback. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 18:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

(off topic) I tend to be lenient toward people who are calm and don't confront people in a manner which would make them feel violated, or as if they did something wrong (see User talk:NeWsOfTzzz; many of these arguments could have been settled in a more civil way). Although Kwigon would be a good candidate for rollback, I would hesitate to promote him because he may use it to revert his enemies' edits. (no offense, Kwigon - but you do tend to be hostile against opposing users). -- Sixorish 17:36, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

looks a good idea

it looks like a good idea since is easyer for your admins to police the "rollback group" actions, than evevrybody else actions.

Maguu 19:10, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

What enemies? My enemies are botters (I wont undo a edit that is good) also I do hate User talk:NeWsOfTzzz but just because he start doing something and leave it half finish and also removed information that took me money and time to get. Am happy with just not having to preview (I can undo very fast a hacked by opening a lot of windows in firefox), But I would like to edit locked pages, and maybe be able to mute/block hackers at least for 1 day wile a admin logs in and do it for real.
--Kwigon the sharpshooter 18:56, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

The point is not that you have enemies, it's that you are very open about it and vicious to them. If I had people saying things like that to me when I first came here I wouldn't have stuck around, so I can't blame him for not finishing it (if he didn't ...) -- Sixorish 21:13, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

8000 Articles

We have reached the nice sum of 8000 articles today (or a few days ago, I only just noticed it ;) ). I nice moment to look back how TibiaWiki evolved from a small site to (maybe) the largest and most visited fansite of Tibia. It feels good to be part of such a huge bunch of people, working together to put information here, correct others and a lot more. It is also nice the huge vandals we had to deal with some months ago, are kinda gone. Apart from looking back, we could also look forward. Some older sections could be cleaned up/updated, new ideas could be implemented. Share your thoughts! ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 22:37, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

I would be interested in reading about this. All I know so far is that TibiaWiki was intended as an easy way to see the books. beejay 13:22, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

That brought me to the idea to start of a history article about tibiawiki: TibiaWiki/History. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 11:53, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Custom namespace: Loot

Hello everybody!
You might have noticed how easy it lately became to add Loot Statistics, by pasting your stats in a box and upload them right away to the Monster/Loot Statistics page. You may also have noticed how this spams the Special:RecentChanges. There is a probable solution to this, we could ask Wikia to create a custom namespace for all loot statistic pages. For example: Minotaur/Loot Statistics would be moved to Loot:Minotaur (or Stats:Minotaur or anything else). These edits could then be made hidden/visible in the recent changes. Would you guys agree with that? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 23:53, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Supporting this. I would rather have the abbreviation expanded though: Stats seems rather unprofessional. -- Sixorish 04:50, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Loot:Minotaur sounds more suitable for me
Jura 08:26, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

I like statistics: but the name doesn't matter much for me, it sounds like a good idea and it would make scanning the recent changes easier so I agree with it. beejay 13:21, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Would the abbr. Loot Statistics:Minotaur be the best? I'm not sure if we are allowed a space in it though. Or otherwise LootStatistics: or Statistics. In the last case, rust removing statistics can be put in there too I guess. Ow, and thanks for your support everyone :) ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 16:17, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

I can't see why not. We already have many namespaces with multiple words (talk namespaces), and there's the user blog, and user blog talk which has three.

If the naming is fought over then we can always request namespace aliases. I'd go with using aliases "Loot:" and "Statistics:" to redirect to "Loot Statistics:" personally. -- Sixorish 17:01, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

I support the namespace creation, about the name I believe Loot: is best, simple and descriptive but if aliases are allowed would be ok to have Loot:, Statistics: and Loot Statistics:.

--Daniel Letalis 10:38, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I just contacted wikia and we'll see what their response is. I think they can do it within the next few days. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 11:53, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

It appears they have enabled the namespace, but not the aliases. Here's what needs doing for the transition:

Make the JavaScript support the new titles.
Move each /Loot Statistics page.
Fix the links on Template:Infobox Creature to properly link to the new titles.
Fix any other links.

I have created a page, User:Sixorish/Move, which has links to filled in forms. I feel we should wait for the JavaScript to be updated or disabled before they're moved.

Questions:

Are we going to disable the parser temporarily while we make the transition?
Should we redirect the old page to the new namespace?

-- Sixorish 18:04, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Too bad they didn't add the aliases. Loot parser is updated now, I will keep working on it for the option to upload all loots with 1 click but you can update it for now if you want so pages can be moved.

You can test it on: w:c:dantest:Loot_Statistics

Only file updated: Loot_Statistics/Lootparserloot

Updated code: http://dantest.wikia.com/index.php?title=Loot_Statistics/Lootparserloot&oldid=5053

I think I will make wikimarkup textareas read-only on the next version. --Daniel Letalis 19:04, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to keep you in the dark, but this is the official response I got to the request: "Hi Bennie.
The namespace is created, with those settings, including the 2 aliases.

The only thing we cant do is the show/hide on recent changes. Thats just not possible in mediawiki.

-- Regards,

Uberfuzzy"
~~In other words, it may have been completely pointless to create this custom namespace if we can't hide it... How did you figure this would be possible Sixorish?~~ Wait! This is just me being silly, of course there is a dropdown list on Special:RecentChanges where you can simply select "Loot statistics" and check the box "exclude namespace. So, what makes you think the aliases are not working btw? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 23:11, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Loot:Rat. Statistics:Rat. They don't work. -- Sixorish 08:54, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind, they work. I didn't realize the pages had to exist for the alias to work. I'll start moving the pages. -- Sixorish 08:59, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Everything seems to work; pages have been moved and we can now filter out that namespace. -- Sixorish 09:58, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Item Prices

There is/has been a bit of confusion about what item pages are meant for regarding prices. Atleast, when I started to discuss this(?) the first time, there had been a lot of item's pages "standardised" by who paid/sold for the best player prices. Until now, I had not seen it as much of an issue due to seeing it from an "experienced" players perspective, where they would only want to know the best prices dependent from which cities (which in all fairness are currently bolded on most pages now). Since I had started to help with the Shops page I have started to wonder about the prices and whether they are best shown by the city prices such as.. Warrior Helmet or by the city names such as Mace. As the pages get larger, the significance of the items value lowers and it matters more about where it can be sold than for better prices, as equipment should (in my opinion) be treated the same/similar, I believe that all these item pages should be also treat the same and all similar pages should have the same standard to follow. I now do not believe that the item pages are a place to compare item prices, which is why pages such as Shops and Traders have been set up. Nevertheless I think this should be discussed so we can get a standadised idea upon the set up of prices to pages to avoid less confusion in the future. What do you think? beejay 01:04, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right, we need to have a standard.
The point is: "Whether the prices are best shown by the city prices or by the city names".
Well, if somebody want to know the best prices, he/she has only to look at the bold prices, if somebody want to know the price of a particular city/village, he/she has only to press ctrl+f and type the city/village name. Since it's easier and faster to use the eyes, my opinion is: bold (best) prices and list the cities by alphabetical order.

<·> Hunter of Dragoes <·> My Talk <·> My Contributions <·> 15:07, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

I think a good policy might be to list Rashid/Djinn prices first on a page, if they can be sold to them, and then alphabetically by-city from then on. In the case of Rashid/Djinn items, there's no conceivable reason to sell them to another NPC. While on non-Rashid/Djinn pages, because the prices are typically very similar, with many NPCs offering the same prices, listing them alphabetically by-city with the best price in bold seems to work. Coincidentally, the Warrior Helmet page seems to fit this format already. Kharzad Ironfist 13:22, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I think that's a good idea as Rashid and the Djinns move/have their own cities. beejay 13:45, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

I thought i had added the Djinns to Shops listed under Ankrahmun, so i may have lost the file or saved over it. I will try to find that or recreate it soon and add them to Shops. I do not find it necessary to give them their own column since they are already on Traders, and Shops is getting very wide (in Firefox, users would have to scroll on Shops if they have a 1000px wide screen or smaller).
Perhaps in addition to writing the best prices in bold, the cell could be a different color or just color the Djinns' cells (green/blue). The downside of the color is making the page look bad aesthetically.
--DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 18:33, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Could always put a small green or blue gif next to it.
Craggles
Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile

Perhaps or something? Maybe to make the list thinner, instead of listing each city we instead include all free account city npcs under one column and premium under another, then make a list of trading npcs which buy/sell the items included in the page? beejay 20:28, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Wiki Achievements

Hello everybody,

Wikia introduced a new feature which can be turned on for this wiki, if people would like. It is called achievements. Right now you can see the amount of edits somebody made on his/her userpage, these achievement points replace that. So what do you think, do you totally hate it or do you think it would be a nice thing? I personally think it would be nice, because different badges can be made up, e.g. a golden badge for adding 100 loot statistics edits. Of course, too much competition is not wanted, it's not really about quantity but the quality of edits is more important. So what do you think? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 19:50, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea I edit other wikis in which you can earn badges and users take it as a healthy competitions, but as always people can get upset, and jealous because of this. Also is a good idea Tibia adds achievements, and Tibiawiki adds Achievements also Starygurl 03:09, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I prefer a system like wikipedia:WP:Barnstars, where they're awarded by people and isn't so predictable. It's more satisfying knowing that you've made a noticeable difference. With this system, you could edit 100 pages (or even vandalize them...) and be held with high esteem because you have a badge...

If we had manually-administered badges, we would also be able to make more creative and specific ones, i.e. an explorer badge (yes, my creativity > the world) for someone who creates or significantly expands, a location article. -- Sixorish 05:28, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Mmm, that's a very good suggestion Sixorish! I read that page and I like the idea. Would anybody be able to give starts to anyone? I wonder if people would abuse the system or not. Seems like fun to try, especially because the Wikia Achievement system does not take earlier edits into account, while barnstars can be awarded for earlier edits easy. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 06:47, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I think it would be an interesting addition, perhaps encouraging people to edit more in other areas of the wiki. At the moment, I don't have my mind set on whether I like the idea or not, I don't think that people would abuse it here but you never know and it wouldn't surprise me. I dislike that there are no preventative measures to stop people from abusing the system. The only way seems to be through blocking people and I don't like the idea of that either and that it only temporarily removes the badges. There should be something more like removing points for bad edits made, as at the way it is as the moment, it doesn't sound so encouraging to make good edits, which should be required.

On the other hand though, it's not very important if people did abuse edits/points to gain these achievements. But it may encourage others to do the same behaviour and that's why I can't make my mind up about it. For me, there's always an if.. Beejay 16:39, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

It's a nice feature, BUT I think that feature encourages ppl to make bad/pointless edits. And it's very easy to do this, by just adding unneeded categories to the articles, or unneeded screenshots of items looted, etc. Also, i like the idea that "all editors on tibia wikia are equals", and it undermines the very purpose of wikis: to make a community of constructive editors. » Sez ~ Talk « 16:57, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

My logic is, if you care enough to want achievement points in our community, then you care enough to be part of and help our community. Bring on the achievements.
Craggles ಠ_ಠ Talk ∙ Contribs 20:18, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe the system is fair, 1 edit with good content or research can take more time than 10 simple/bad edits. If the system can be removed after being added I think we should test, only to see how good it is for this wiki. --Daniel Letalis 21:42, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

It can be removed. I read on one wikia admins blog, some admins added to their wikia, they was flooded by poitless edits, and then they disabled xD » Sez ~ Talk « 21:45, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

An objective award system would be a great thing for the wiki. Balance is the only weakness. I do thnik this sort of idea is the next step for the community.
Craggles ಠ_ಠ Talk ∙ Contribs 22:36, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Then to make it fair only administrators should be able to give the awards. Starygurl 22:47, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Trouble with that is we can forget, argue and generally be inconsistant. If admins dish out the rewards then the average user won't have much of a hope, I could barely name a handful of regular edittors.
Craggles ಠ_ಠ Talk ∙ Contribs 22:52, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

So we're discussing about 2 systems, one is the Wikia automatic achievenemt system, where you get badges for certain amounts of edits in certain categories. The advantage is that is goes automatically, the disadvantage is that users who already did a lot in the past won't get badges or points for that and that it might encourage to do a lot of nonsense edits to get badges. The second system is the Barnstar system suggested by Sixorish. The main advantage here is that stuff that's done in the past can be awarded too and that it's more personal (when somebody gives you a Barnstar he cares about you/the stuff you did). Disadvantages are that it needs to be done manually so if nobody gives out stars, nobody gets them. Note that anybody would be able to give barnstars to anybody else, if only admins could award them it would be too hard. I personally like the barnstar system more, but it's up to you. We could have a poll on the main page? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 06:47, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Bennie do a poll so we can see what the whole community thinks Starygurl 16:58, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

The problem with a poll on the main page would be that any visitor can vote / you don't have to be logged in to vote. And it's a decision that will affect only the users. What about to do the poll on a talk page and every user says his/her vote there? It'd be fairer to protect the page for autoconfirmed users only.

<·> Hunter of Dragoes <·> My Talk <·> My Contributions <·> 17:58, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have posted this earlier but figured it would catch on: there's no technical reason why we can't use both. One would be qualitative, the other quantitative. At least until it is decided for certain what is feasible and what is not.

I would have proposed general guidelines for the awarding and granting of the barnstars (I mean, granter and recipient). For example, you might have one titled "Quality editor" requiring 5-10 edits which are deemed high quality (relatively speaking), but to award it you need to have been active for 6-12 or more months and have some related (probably higher in the hierarchy) barnstar yourself. The requirements are not just to prevent abuse, but also to ensure that those who grant them have some knowledge of what passes by as high quality. Although the system would be democratic: if one disagrees on someone's edits, they can have their barnstar revoked. -- Sixorish 04:18, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

why achievement system is needed? When I do edit, I do it to help other people, same as they help me. Not for stars, big signs "winner" or so. Just my 2 cents. Jura 19:48, August 12, 2010 (UTC)