Talk: Administrator Team

Revision as of 05:15, 19 January 2020

Welcome

Feel free to discuss things among admins. Ask things to admins, propose new ideas etc. Reporting a vandal can also be perfectly done here, but is not really the intention of this page. Also note that this page doesn't have the same function as TibiaWiki talk:Community Portal.

History section on content pages

Hey guys. I'd like your opinion on adding a history section to pages. Currently we link to history subpages. Under the new system the subpages would stay for ease of editing but they would be included on the pages. The format of these history pages would be very different. We would need a standard for formatting them.

I have a working example of what I'd like to see: A Sweaty Cyclops. Notable changes:

History template gone.
Formatting: bullet points for core changes and indenting for elaboration.
Headings: no more "Origin", "Ice protection" etc. headings; the headings currently describe the changes (what), but they should describe the version (when). If Pair of Earmuffs receives another ice protection adjustment where would that go? Versions that introduce changes to an item should have a unique header.

Of course this would be a long-term change. All history pages would need to be adjusted. The sooner we agree on a format the sooner we can get it done. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:49, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

I think we can all agree the history pages didn't work out what was intended when the format was created in the first page. The idea to have an origin for every history page wasn't really usable, either "introduced in update xx" (but we have implemented for this). Only a few pages have interesting origin stories.

So I agree a change is needed. Moving the content to the main articles seems reasonable, given that most history pages are very short right now, it saves a click if you don't have to navigate to them. I would suggest just completely moving their content instead of including (this would increase speed? or it doesn't matter after it's cached?).

It's a big project indeed, if every edit would be needed to be done manually. But I agree it's needed. I agree with your format, although I can imagine the bullet point list looks a little technical to most people. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:00, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

We should always think on what is the best for our visitors to read and to edit. Thus, moving the history to the content page seems the best option.
Thanks Six for putting time and energy on this!

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 02:22, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

Just to follow up on this old discussion, currently I'm working on history pages. What would you think is better:

History section is always shown, if no history is available this is displayed in italic text;
History section is hidden by default, but is displayed if parameter exists.

The advantage of the first option is editors know they can add history on pages which don't have it, but visitors might be annoyed by the message there is no history on 90% of our pages. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:13, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

I'd go for the second option because of exactly what you said.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:15, September 12, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, this has been implemented in all relevant infobox templates. Only some item history subpages need to be merged with their main item page. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:00, September 27, 2016 (UTC)

All remaining pages using Template:History have been merged. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:08, October 14, 2016 (UTC)

New item parameters

Hey guys,

I am working on the Updates/10.94 weapons. This is a huge project, there are 120 wiki pages needed, from which only one third are created up till now. There is something else as well, I wanted to add six new parameters to Template:Infobox Item:

crithit_ch
critextra_dmg
manaleech_ch
manaleech_am
hpleech_ch
hpleech_am

This will have the advantage to query for these properties with DPL, to have them in separate table columns and not everything grouped in the attributes column. Like previously discussed, this should also be done with all the damage modifies like "axe fighting + 1". Any objections or thoughts? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 09:19, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, go for it! As I stated last year, I believe skill and speed modifiers should also have their own individual parameters.
Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:24, September 12, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I implemented the six new parameters and made separate DPL templates to list them. I will start adding new parameters soon and include skill and speed modifiers as well. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:01, September 27, 2016 (UTC)

Node-count limit

Does anyone know how to extend the node-count limit or how to circumvent it?

Affected pages:

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:47, September 12, 2016 (UTC)

It's called preprocessor node count. Kirkburn said this is not something we are likely to be able to raise (at least in the short term) and suggested us to look into ways to reduce the complexity of the page - perhaps by splitting it into more pages, or reducing the number of template calls it makes.

How can we reduce the number of template calls? Should we remove Loot and Dropped By columns from those pages (and all similar pages in order to keep the standards)?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 16:01, September 17, 2016 (UTC)

Seems to work, tested on Physical Damage/Neutral. I don't know what columns are most important to keep.

-- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:49, September 17, 2016 (UTC)

Two more pages added to the list. By the way, shouldn't there be a Loot namespace for such pages?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 09:14, September 28, 2016 (UTC)

Re: namespace - No way. We're limited in the number of custom namespaces we can have (2 I think). Besides, these Loot pages are outdated and should probably be removed completely since they create huge maintenance jobs (if a creature's loot table is modified, all loot pages with that creature have to be updated) and they're seldom used (probably because they aren't up to date?). -- Sixorish (talk) 16:20, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

Just tuning in to say that I agree with Six regarding the pointlessness of those loot pages. -- Wouterboy (talk) 17:04, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

Renaming category for NPCs

Hey all, I plan to rename the category: Category:NPCs in Tibia to Category:NPCs, which is more logical. Are there any objections to abstain from doing so? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:08, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

I believe Category:NPCs in Tibia is meant to be applied only to individual NPCs and Category:NPCs is meant to apply only to groups of them. However, the latter is barely used for its intended purpose, as you can see from the low amount of pages that are listed under it. The question you should ask yourself is whether this special group-sorting category is even necessary, especially given the fact that categories such as Category:NPC Locations and Category: NPC Occupations have taken over this role for a large part. Based on the outcome of those ponderings you can then decide either to carry out the move or to abandon it. -- Wouterboy (talk) 16:21, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I think I made all necessary arrangements to do the change. Soon I will let my bot crawl over all wiki pages to do this search-and-replace. Hopefully this will catch them all and break nothing. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:19, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Item and Imbuing

I'd like to propose the removal of the parameter imbuable from the item template. Items are bound by the functional dependency imbuement → imbuable; an item is imbuable if and only if imbuement > 0. This parameter is not declared on non-imbuable items. Thus, we're storing the same information (imbuable) twice. While at it, I would also like to propose the imbuement parameter be renamed to imbueslots (preferred) or imbuements (plural).

Any objections to this? (Bennie, if you have time, I could use the service of your bot for this)

-- Sixorish (talk) 15:27, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the removal of the imbuable parameter and rename imbuent to imbueslots. I'll set up my bot to do this soon. On a sidenote, how did you obtain the imbuements information? I couldn't find a list on the test server forum, but they also changed the items a bit since then. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:15, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

I had 94ish items and then I realized they added the number of slots to the market. -- Sixorish (talk) 03:35, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

The market is a good source of info, didn't realise that as well. My bot is currently editing the 200 pages. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 10:17, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

Tibia's 20th Anniversary

There's not a word about Tibia's 20th Anniversary on the front page of the tibia wiki. Even the events section says "This month, January, there are 2 events: New Year Time and Bewitched." Surely, Tibia's 20th anniversary is worth at least mentioning as an event.

Pattre Kempe (talk) 07:19, January 11, 2017 (UTC)

CreatureDroppedBy Bot Proposal

Hey guys,

I wrote a bot proposal. My idea was to write this bot in Java, since I learned it recently and use it daily on my job now. Anyways, a lot of programming languagues already have API access libraries. Then I can just run the bot ~weekly and maybe more during updates. If you have any feedback on this idea I'd like to hear them. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 09:50, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

i think this is a great idea, the only note i can think of right now is to eliminate certain special loot (silver raid tokens, party wall snake,party wall tinsel, party lampions - or during events like anniversary old rugs)

Vapaus (talk)

I think it would be good but there are two scenarios that this will cause issues:

User adds false information.
User A edits Demon, saying that it drops Mouldy Cheese;

Your bot adds that information to Mouldy Cheese.
User removes false information.
User B sees the issue when browsing Mouldy Cheese (...as one does...) and removes the information from Mouldy Cheese.

Your bot adds that information back to Mouldy Cheese.

There are of course workarounds to this:

Have all edits marked as pending review; post the list of changes to be made and allow editors to review these before they go live. They can edit the page to remove that item (hopefully making it impossible for your bot to find this issue next run).
Post all changes made to an article for review in post.

-- Sixorish (talk) 14:47, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Vapaus, that's a good point. I think there is a list of filtered items in the loot parser which I can use and also add stuff like Gold Coin which we don't list a droppedby list of.

Sixorish, that's a good point but will only be an issue if I'd let the bot run without any double-checking. I'll have to look for false positives in the beginning and think of ways to filter them later.

I (almost) have a first working version. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 13:32, February 19, 2017 (UTC)

I thought the plan was to run it as a weekly cron job, fully unmanned; if you're checking the changes yourself, that shouldn't be an issue. Are you looking for help on the coding side of things? -- Sixorish (talk) 14:21, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Well, a fully unmanned situation would be ideal, but requires some extra measures to prevent situations to happen, like you described.

I marked you as a collaborator so you can help if you want. But first I'm going to make the code a little cleaner, up until now I was just trying to get something to work, but I can do better than this (I'm currently reading "Clean Code" by Robert Martin which has some really nice insights, I can recommend it). -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:12, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Reachable / Unreachable - Debug Tiles?

With the recent updates to the tibia-maps project, a few reachable/unreachable tiles were uncovered by Svargrond arena. I am guessing these tiles are related by some functional purpose, but what is it? Can they be reached or were they just temporary teleportation tiles while the debugging process was active; and if they cannot be reached, do they still exist? (If so, why?)

If they are related for some reason and still exist today, then surely other related game functions (seems to be time-based events?) have their own as well.

Here are some other boss rooms that have candidate tiles (or maybe not):

https://tibiamaps.io/map#33259,31689,15:3 (Stonecracker)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#33070,31039,12:2 (Zanakeph?)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#32039,31741,8:4 (The Collector)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#32957,31046,8:2 (Flameborn?)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#33243,31611,11:2 (?)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#32051,31249,11:2 (Bretzecutioner)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#32030,32555,15:2 (Kerberos)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#33395,31546,10:3 (Feroxa? Wait, is this right? Can't you levitate up there?)
- Some other candidate tiles in that area too.
Svargrond arena
Bigfoot's Burden
- You reach this one if, for some reason, teleporting to Abyssador's room is impossible. It did this on Test Server for an unknown reason, that's why we have these maps. This tile kicked anyone on it offline, and moved them to the temple at next login.
(none visible for The Many, The Noxious Spawn or Gorgo)

-- Sixorish (talk) 12:14, May 23, 2017 (UTC)

I've noticed similar tiles on PvP and PvE arenas, like here, here, here, here and here.

The tiles you mentioned in Svargrond arena have always been there and Cip never tried to hide them on the maps published to promoted/supported fansites (check the early versions of File:Minimap Floor 7.png).

Here's a "screenshot" of Svargrond arena's secret tiles:

I believe characters are either teleported there in order to trigger the arena/boss event (making monster spawn, starting timers) or when the time is over (before being teleported somewhere else).

Other places:

Koshei the Deathless
Under Calcanea (related to A Pirate's Death to Me?)
Under Ghostlands (related to The Queen of the Banshees Quest?)
??

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 14:59, May 23, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, they are used to trigger the spawning of certain creatures or to effectuate changes to the environment. I remember a post on the forums some time ago by someone who had figured out that the separate stages of the orcish raid on Zzaion are triggered by rats spawning on top of such switchplates. -- Wouterboy (talk) 02:21, May 24, 2017 (UTC)

BattlEye integration

Should we change Template:Infobox World to add a boolean field to represent whether or not servers are protected by BattlEye? -- Sixorish (talk) 05:22, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

Well, it depends. Won't all worlds get BE protection in a few months? Your suggestion would only make sense if for an extended period of time only a part of the servers are BE protected. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:34, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

Seeing how CIpsoft makes those changes, I think it's a good idea to have BattlEye column, if they keep activating it on few by few worlds, people will get lost eventualy, so even if it has to be reversed in near(half a year, year?) future, it could be pretty useful for now. Cauli92 (talk) 09:39, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

I had the same idea some days ago when I was editing a few game world pages. Go ahead, Six! :)

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 12:53, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

For the moment, CipSoft is experimenting with the cost-effectiveness of rolling out BattlEye. This means that any number of game worlds could have BattlEye enabled or disabled throughout the next few months. As such, I've added support for a parameter 'battleye' which can be removed if BattlEye becomes global. -- Sixorish (talk) 09:49, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, looks good! -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:39, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Good job, Six!

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 17:48, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Double Loot

Should we revert all Loot Statistics uploaded during the double loot weekend?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 19:29, June 1, 2017 (UTC)

Or maybe just replace the page with an explaining text during that week? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:41, June 1, 2017 (UTC)

One problem is that people may record loot statistics for weeks and only upload them when they have a lot. To minimise this we should, in addition to one of the other solutions, issue a notice to avoid the collection of loot until the period ends. -- Sixorish (talk) 06:13, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. Can any of you (or someone else) do those things? I'm just too busy now. Thanks.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 14:14, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

maybe we are going about this the wrong way, maybe we should double the amount of kills uploaded during double loot?
Vapaus (talk) 16:21, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

We can't just double the amount of kills. We would need to do something with the maximum amount of each dropped item which would be increase after the upload. Also, it would decrease the no loot rate.

I have some news! After the Winter Update, loot messages during double loot events should be similar to the ones when a double loot prey bonus is active. It means we will be able to filter them out automatically.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:21, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

JSON API

I've been working on a nice little project I'd like to share with you. The goal is to expose this wikis content in a JSON API, which other people or fansites can use (besides my wikiBot which can use this to read wiki articles, change things and write them back). I first wrote my code in Java, but to host the API on this wiki itself I thought it should run on the wiki. So I ported (part of) my code to lua. You can see a demo here. If you edit the page, you can change the word "Bear" to another creature you like and click on preview to see the result. Right now I only support Creatures, but ultimately all types will be supported.

Next thing to look into is how to use query parameters to call the lua module, so you can get the JSON of a specific article by going to an url like: http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/User:Bennie/Test?article_name=bear

-- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:58, June 3, 2017 (UTC)

Holy crap, this looks so amazing. I didn't know we could have such things due to security issues.

However, does your lua script perform the parsing itself? There will be a ton of issues when dealing with "edge cases" if you parse it yourself. Like this:

{{ Infobox Creature (space has no meaning here)

or this:

{{{{{1|Infobox Creature}}} (don't think we use this, but it's possible).

If there's a library script that actually invokes the preprocessor to generate a parse tree, this would be perfect. -- Sixorish (talk) 07:37, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, it is pretty cool. I found out the MediaWiki API can also give back parsed pages, so you could perform a GET on this page.

Sixorish, how did you make your API, you didn't use the MediaWiki API, did you? It would be useful if one could access a certain wiki page and only get json in return, to really have a REST endpoint.

The lua script does perform the parsing, indeed. Those edge cases will break it, it's not very robust unfortunately. I have no idea what you mean with preprocessor and parse tree, can you explain? I thought it is most logical to base the json on the raw wikitext. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 10:31, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

I mean to say that it would be so much better to have the MediaWiki engine process a page and give you a structured representation of the data. It's a bit silly to rewrite the MediaWiki parser to interpret wikitext correctly.

My "API" was based on the MediaWiki API. You can generate page contents from the API in batches of 400-500(?), which is super useful for bots. I'm guessing the lua is based on the API as well.

-- Sixorish (talk) 12:36, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

Clickable Images Triggering Creature Ranks

I just made a test with clickable images in DPL lists on List of Creatures by Experience to Hit Points Ratio. Unfortunately, Creature Ranks are triggered by clickable images. Does anyone know a way to circumvent this?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 03:09, August 5, 2017 (UTC)

Just that I understand you, you want to keep the golden star left of the word Abyssador, but not have a golden star appear left of the clickable image of Abyssador? You'll have to add a new CSS rule to MediaWiki:Custom_Scripts/Creature_Ranks/Creature_Ranks.css where you exclude the behaviour when there is an img tag inside an hyperlink tag, when direct child.

Let me know if you need help with that! -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:29, September 16, 2017 (UTC)

Actually, it seems you need a parent selector for this, which is not supported by CSS yet. For now the only solution would be to use javascript. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:13, September 17, 2017 (UTC)

Sorted. I don't know if we need to have that peer reviewed? @Bennie we get around this by exploiting the fact that those images have classes that links don't (.image.image-thumbnail) in order to reset the :before attributes.

-- Sixorish (talk) 14:42, September 17, 2017 (UTC)

Smart. Stupid of me to oversee this simple solution. I don't see a review button which javascript pages like MediaWiki:Common.js have. It doesn't load for me yet, but this may be a caching issue. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:01, September 17, 2017 (UTC)

Nice job, Six!

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 18:48, September 18, 2017 (UTC)

Is it working? I tested this in the console and it seems to work, but the server isn't updating its CSS. Maybe the CSS doesn't get regenerated until some code review is passed? -- Sixorish (talk) 13:40, September 20, 2017 (UTC)

It is not working yet. Shouldn't TibiaWiki:Styles/Creature Ranks.css be edited too?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 19:36, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

I thought the TibiaWiki css page was replaced with the MediaWiki css page, since Wikia wants custom js and css inclusions only from "trusted" places. But I don't know how the inclusion system actually works. It's not as if there is an import statement in MediaWiki:Common.css. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:28, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

@Hunter: You're right, the MediaWiki: CSS page isn't actually being used, the TibiaWiki:Styles/... page needed to be updated. Cheers, -- Sixorish (talk) 08:59, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

If you are sure, can you delete the unused one? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 18:36, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

Items/Objects sold on the Store and their price

I noticed that there's a general lack of information on item's articles regarding to Store availability. For example, if you go on Mana Potion there's no mention that you can buy them on the Store, this information is only available on the Store's page. Same thing applies to Runes, some House Equipment, etc.

There's also a problem when it comes to the TC prices. For example, the Brocade Tapestry says Bought for 50 Tibia Coins gp. Some types such as objects (e.g. Mana Cask) and outfits also don't have a price parameter, which means it's not possible to add this information to their articles using a parameter. On the other hand, Template:Infobox Mount has a price parameter that works very well.

Finally there's the issue of having bundles of items available with different amounts and price, like 125x Mana Potions for 5 TC and 300x Mana Potions for 10 TC. Considering all this I had an idea which I'm not sure could be implemented:

A storeprices parameter would be added to the templates of types that include store products (Item, Outfit, Object, ?). This could be just a value for 1x items, but it wouldn't work for bundles, so perhaps new templates would be useful as its value. Something like:

{{Store Price
 |{{Store Bundle|amount|price}}
 |{{Store Bundle|amount|price}}
}}

For example:

{{Store Price
 |{{Store Bundle|125|5}}
 |{{Store Bundle|300|10}}
}}

This should translate into something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/eDKp5Ql.png

What do you guys think? I'm sorry if it has been discussed before but I didn't see any mention on the archives. If you want I can offer to try creating the templates (I'd just need to read how to do it and where to test it), and of course update the pages after implementation.

Molx (talk) 14:19, August 9, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing it out! I added parameters related to Store prices to Template:Infobox Outfit. I also added a parameter for achievement.

Someone still has to add Store prices parameters to Template:Infobox Item.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:23, August 24, 2017 (UTC)

Problem is, the Store-bought potions might need their very own pages. They don't stack with the regular shop-bought potions and have a flavourtext (as opposed to their shop-bought counterparts). However (to make things more complicated), putting either type of potion under a hotkey will make that hotkey work for both types... -- Wouterboy (talk) 14:22, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Hunter, I see that you also updated all pages already, nice!

The Store potions and runes thing is indeed problematic. But I have the impression they are the same item (.dat wise), with maybe one attribute that gives items from the Store specific properties. Molx (talk) 18:29, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

Update Minimap Floor Files

The Minimap files are protected pages, I assume because they were used by the mapper and hence very sensitive. Now they are used just in the miniature map on NPC pages. They haven't been updated in a while, which leads to NPCs being displayed on the ocean, e.g. Valindara. Could someone please unprotect these files or update the images? Files are:

File:Minimap Floor 0.png, File:Minimap Floor 1.png, File:Minimap Floor 2.png, File:Minimap Floor 3.png, File:Minimap Floor 4.png, File:Minimap Floor 5.png, File:Minimap Floor 6.png, File:Minimap Floor 7.png, File:Minimap Floor 8.png, File:Minimap Floor 9.png, File:Minimap Floor 10.png, File:Minimap Floor 11.png, File:Minimap Floor 12.png, File:Minimap Floor 13.png, File:Minimap Floor 14.png, File:Minimap Floor 15.png

The optimal solution would be making Template:Minimap work with the tibiamaps files, but that doesn't seem to be an easy thing to do.

Molx (talk) 18:07, September 4, 2017 (UTC)

I sent an email to Mathias last night asking him to update our Mapper files, but I don't know when he will have time for this.

If you can, Molx, you can use the TibiaMaps PNG files found here to create the new versions of the files you mentioned. Please, follow the same standards (centering and dimensions / water margins). Oh, and don't forget File:Minimap Floor 7h.png. :-)

Once you have the files, I will unprotect them, then you can upload the new versions and I will protect them again.

Edit: Mathias told me he is going to do it over the weekend.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:44, September 13, 2017 (UTC)

I didn't read the edit until it was too late, haha. If you want I can upload them. There is an excessive empty space on the bottom of these images, not sure why. Nevertheless, I kept the same sizes, as requested. If it works as expected you can tell Mathias not to worry about it. :) Molx (talk) 20:23, September 14, 2017 (UTC)

Done, all users are allowed to upload new versions of those files for now.

Edit: The reason for the excessive empty space can be explained by checking Template:Minimap. After exploring new areas from a certain update, there was at least one 1##129##.map file i.e Y = 129 (not on the ground floor, as you can see), that's why we needed to change the Mapper files dimensions.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:14, September 14, 2017 (UTC)

Done, thanks! - Molx (talk) 02:16, September 15, 2017 (UTC)

Social engagement

It looks like Facebook has failed as a platform for social engagement. I would propose three reasons for this:

TibiaWiki is a collaborative community. It's not a social network.
It's too formal to send a message to the TibiaWiki administrators via Facebook.
We don't regularly create content that is worthy of publishing to Facebook.

What we need, I think, is something less formal and more communal than Facebook pages offer. Discord is probably the best bet, because it's a platform for gamers to chat amongst each other. What I was thinking is that we could have channels to discuss different issues, e.g. some where players can discuss the issues they have with TibiaWiki, as well as suggest and collaboratively discuss how the wiki can be improved. The important distinction is that it must be casual, otherwise nobody will use it and it will fail just as our Facebook page has.

I've wanted to post this for a while, because I think it's really important that something is done. The community's #1 priority must be to foster its continued growth, but my experience (of lurking the recent changes) is showing that the community is stagnating. I see the same people editing articles, and this is not sustainable.

-- Sixorish (talk) 15:09, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

i support this.
Vapaus (talk) 15:53, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

As an user who started contributing more actively just recently I think this is a good idea. It would be very good for Wiki if a new way to engage with the community was found. I'm not an avid Discord user but I would at least give it a try. Molx (talk) 16:00, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I agree we should do something. Let's give Discord a try. Wikia tried to make a casual communication feature - Special:Chat - which failed because players need to have a Wikia account for that. We can also create threads in Reddit every now and then.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:13, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

Alright. I've created a server.

Here's a link: https://discord.gg/Mqgz9Mz

Anyone can join, admins will be granted a special role so that they can be identified. Admins will have a public and private chat. -- Sixorish (talk) 07:39, February 2, 2018 (UTC)

I have created TibiaWiki:Discord, mainly to link it in the navigation bar, but also to provide a simple description of the server (please edit it if you want to expand or change something). If we want this to work we must do some sort of "advertising" or at least put it out there I guess. -- Molx (talk) 14:26, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

Status

I am planning to edit all our infobox templates which use the "status" parameter, to let them display the corresponding template at the top of the page, depending on the value of this parameter. So if you put e.g. "status = deprecated" on an item page, it will automatically put the Template:Deprecated at the top of the page.

Afterwards I will let my bot check all wiki pages and remove status-related templates from the top of the page and add the status parameter instead.

There might be some time when you see two templates at the top of the page, one added manually and one by the template, but hopefully this will be only the case for a short timespan. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:44, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

Go ahead, Bennie! It is good that you found some time to do this! :)

As stated in my talk page, I believe there should be a distinction among

Content overwritten or removed from the game; and
Content made unobtainable (e.g items that expired).

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 18:08, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

I searched for "status" on your talk page but didn't exactly find what you mean. Can you elaborate? Anyways, if you want to add more statuses, you can simple add them in Template:Status Messagebox, the code is easy to understand (I think).

So I just went over all templates listed on this page, added support everywhere except not on the following templates:

Template:Infobox Cipsoft Member, their working time parameters kind of informs of their status.
Template:Infobox Fansite, here "rank" is used to inform of their status.
Template:Infobox Geography, but maybe we should? Some areas are event-related (15th tibia anniversary? nostalgia?) and some areas are removed from the game at some point (tutorial island?), although this doesn't happen often. (added support for Nostalgia status=deprecated).
Template:Infobox Hunt, same as geography.
Template:Infobox Street, same as geography.
Template:Infobox Update, we don't use this template yet.

Furthermore, note that for Template:Infobox World, "ingamestatus" is used, which is empty or has the value deprecated.

I will now start up the bot. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 18:42, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

I meant this (quoting myself from User talk:Hunter of Dragoes#Enchanted and Charged weapons):

There is a difference between items that Cip decided to expire like Lottery Ticket (Blank), Trashed Draken Boots and the weapons in question, and items that were overwritten by different items like Amulet of Life and the Old Wands and Rods. In my opinion, there should be different categories and message boxes for them.

A message box for unobtainable content should be created and added to Template:Status Messagebox‎.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 19:11, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

Ok, no problem. Maybe somebody should review the exact message on Template:Unobtainable. It could be reworded to make it more clear. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:22, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

Re: wording -- Deprecated means "removed from the game". If we adopt another status, it should be as generic as possible, e.g. status=obsolete would imply that the entity in question is in the game files but not used. As it stands, all objects (as opposed to items) would be considered as unobtainable, hence the classification does not make any sense.

Re: task -- good job, this needed to be done. IMO the only things that should ever be on an item page is a template and a note at the top of the page for any disambiguation (I wouldn't be against putting that in the templates too). This makes it more consistent, readable and writable because our editors won't have to concern themselves with how to mark a page as deprecated (without, you know, breaking every single page that transcludes it). -- Sixorish (talk) 03:08, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Good job, Bennie! It seems you missed some items with {{deprecated}} such as Old Wands and Rods.

I agree with Sixorish that unobtainable is not the most suited word. Obsolete, however, sounds like the page info might not be accurate even though we can keep it accurate if the obsolete item in question can be found in the Market. But I believe this would be an exception worth of reporting to Cip.

What about TS-only entities that became obsolete vs. TS-only entities that became deprecated? Should we classify both of them as TS-only even when there is a clear difference between them?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 10:35, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Welcome, Molx!

I knew this had to happen some day. Welcome! -- Wouterboy (talk) 15:55, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Welcome, Lee! :)

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 16:03, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you guys! I always liked giving back to the fansites that help us so much, and when I came back to Tibia this year I started to learn a little bit more about how TibiaWiki works and started to admire even more the great work so many people have done here (I mean, reading and writing the Wikia templates and DPL markup/code is harder than any programming language, haha).

I'm looking forward to fix my own wrongly named pages! :P

Molx (talk) 16:51, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Welcome Molx! We don't have an article on how to be an admin, but feel free to play around with all the new buttons and functionality you can now access. Most things can be undone :) On Special:Specialpages you'll see more pages you can access and this project lists some things you can do. And obviously, feel free to ask any questions! -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:13, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Bennie. I was actually thinking if such article existed, and I'll play around with the new buttons and special pages. :)

Molx (talk) 16:21, November 23, 2017 (UTC)

Our Taxonomy

1. I have recently finalised my reworking of our taxonomic system. This needed to be done for the following reasons:

1.1 Forced distinctions: The current system includes several distinctions which are not really there. If B is a subspecies of A, it makes no sense to pretend this is not the case and give both A and B their own pages and taxonomic categories (see e.g. Undead Humanoids erroneously excluding Vampires).

1.2 Muddled definitions: Taxonomies with double entries are not taxonomies. However, some of the categories we use have been so badly defined that boundaries fade away and overlaps start occurring, something which in turn leads to double entries. The Thornfire Wolf, for example, is classified both in Canines and in Pyro-Elementals; however, elementals are 'freaks' of nature even in Tibia and can in no way also be classified as anything that actually exists as a fully natural part of the Tibian universe.

1.3 Superstrate categories: Superstrate categories have no place in taxonomies because they operate on one level higher and simply select for a random trait (rather than race) that could occur across several taxonomic categories. This is why I removed categories such as Bosses from our taxonomy; it's obviously a very important page to have on the wiki, but it can only exist outside of our official taxonomy.

2. Some notes on my reworking:

2.1 Single entries: Every single creature can only be part of one category.

2.1.1 This isn't always as straightforward, as certain names and appearances can give off ambiguous signals. This is why we need clear defintions that lead to well-defined boundaries. The name and appearance of a creature such as Demon Skeleton, for example, could be interpreted as hinting towards two different categories. Clearly establishing that The Undead can only ever be animated by necromantic spirit and Demons only ever by demonic spirit, however, will remove all ambiguity and lead to one clear answer.

2.1.2 It's not just about definitions and boundaries, though. Something that is also important is that we view every individual creature holistically and base our decision on all available information regarding that creature. A name such as Demon Parrot might indicate that this creature is, just like the Demon Skeleton, animated by demonic spirit. However, looking into the context we have available will reveal that all Isle of Evil creatures were genetically altered by Doctor Perhaps to serve his evil purposes; Demon Parrots are therefore nothing but evil birds with a menacing name.

2.1.3 The only exceptions to this rule would currently be the Lord of the Elements and Mutated Zalamon, but that's because they're literally multiple creatures in one. (I don't feel that the other Shapeshifters fit the bill because they don't throw away their entire 'identity' every time they shapeshift. This is hard to explain and a lot more subjective than I'd like it to be, but we can work out those specifics together.)

2.2 Balance broad–narrow: Some categories had to be broadened a bit because they didn't taxonomically include all creatures listed on their pages. Narrowing a category, on the other hand, felt appropriate when dealing with taxa containing a great diversity of creatures, especially if those creatures are also very salient (both in users' real-life experience and in-game experience). How salient a creature is in someone's experience can influence their perception of diversity to a great extent. Lumping all molluscs in the same category wouldn't nonplus users as much as lumping all chordates in the same category, for example, even though both Mollusca and Chordata are phyla and therefore on the same taxonomic level; there's simply more perceived diversity within Chordata because those are the most salient animals in people's lives.

2.3 Nomenclature: The nomenclature used for the lower-tier categories is as exact and taxonomically valid as possible. The nomenclature used for the upper-tier categories can't be very exact or taxonomically valid for various reasons. Invertebrates is not in any way a taxonomic category, for example, but convenient nomenclature like that certainly helps give more order to our taxonomy by keeping it from being one big messy amalgam of all lower-tier categories.

3. The system below is what I've come up with while doing my best to keep all of the above in mind.

3.1 Amphibians: No changes.

3.2 Birds: Not that many birds to speak of in Tibia, but since birds are one of the most salient animal realms in real-life (alongside amphibians, fish, mammals, and reptiles), I thought it best to move this category to the upper tier of our two-tiered system and make some very basic distinctions within (all are between the levels of class and order) to determine the lower-tier categories.

3.3 Elementals: This category would now directly represent only the four basic elements of Tibia as well as the Bio-Elementals. Blobs and Elemental Lords dissolve (as they have nothing to do with race), whereas Cryo-Elementals moves in with Hydro-Elementals and Magma-Elementals with Geo-Elementals.

3.4 Fish: See 3.2. Both categories are classes, so the only distinction I made was made relatively high up in the taxonomy tree.

3.5 Humanoids: Giants doesn't select for race and had to be removed. It fell apart into Cyclopes, Frost Giants, and Ogres. Behemoth moved to Bovids, Thundergiant to Geo-Elementals (that's what Cip called it when it was introduced), and I'm quite convinced Yetis are not so much Apes but rather overgrown Chakoyas (they have a similar 'moustache' and also share their bright blue eyes with the Chakoya Tribewarden). Djinn and Fae are part of Immortals. Corym are part of Rodents. Minotaurs are part of Bovids.

3.6 Immortals: Anything that is completely outside of Tibian nature fits in this category. Animated Objects is exactly what it looks like but also eats up our current Machines category as well as most of the Traps category. Demons used to be an upper-tier category, but its lower-tier categories either resulted from forced distinctions or the setting apart of cabals. Magic Entities is an entirely new category that should include all intangible expressions of magic (see e.g. Lost Time or Wild Fury Magic). The Undead suffered from issues similar to those suffered by Demons.

3.7 Mammals: The reason I've included so many family categories here is because of the notion of perceived diversity I mentioned in 2.2. Mustelids had to be broadened to Musteloids because it didn't actually include skunks. I felt Ungulates made use of too basic a distinction, so I split it up into Bovids, Camelids, Cervids, Elephantids, Equids, Rhinocerotids, and Suids. Mutated Mammals doesn't select for race and was removed. Prehumans was the only label (it's an actual term, although not a taxonomic one) I could think of to replace Apes without continuing to imply humans should be part of it. Since Lycanthropes is racially all over the place and doesn't really work as its own category, I've decided to consider them humans who in their animal form only count as animals.

3.8 Invertebrates: Since Mollusca is quite a diverse phylum, I decided to go one level lower and split it up into the classes of Cephalopods and Gastropods. Annelida is less outwardly diverse but also a phylum, so renaming it after the class of Clitellates seemed appropriate (the other two extant Annelida classes are primarily marine and therefore wouldn't make much sense as far as Tibian worms go). With Crustacea being a subphylum and the only crustaceans in Tibia being crabs and relatives, calling them all Malacostracans is a more specific way of grouping them. The phylum of Cnidaria is very diverse and the only Tibian creature it would include is better off in the subphylum of Medusozoans. Hive Born was removed because it doesn't select for race.

3.9 Reptiles: The lowest taxonomic rank that includes all real-life lizards is the Squamata order, but since that label would also include all of the snakes I decided to go with the family of Lacertids (the prototypical group of lizards also known as the true lizards) to group all of our Lizards together. The Wyverns move here because they are nothing but flying lizards according to Tibia lore. Similarly, Hydras and Wyrms are nothing but Dragons.

4. Final notes:

4.1 Non-racial splits: I would definitely encourage certain non-racial splits within categorical pages. This way, links such as Voodoo Cultists can still point to a neatly organised list of all voodoo cultists without the implication they're somehow of a different race than all other humans. However, I don't think this is something that should be overused. Perpetuating the current distinction between Skeletons and the rest of The Undead, for instance, seems rather pointless to me as far as user-friendliness is concerned.

4.2 Parameter improvements: In order to progress towards a state where taxonomic categories and superstrate categories are two completely distinct elements, it would be best to further improve certain parameters to fulfil the functions our taxonomic parameters still sometimes fulfil. Category Event Creatures, for example, still gets its information from the taxonomic parameters on creature pages; it would be a huge improvement in this case if the 'spawntype'-parameter were to be the parameter that would have the ability to assign this category instead.

4.3 NPC applications: This taxonomy can also be applied to NPCs, which means they can simply be included on the same pages creatures use (but as part of a separate list, of course). Also, since I've come to the conclusion during my work on this new taxonomy that The Undead should certainly be treated as a completely separate race (with creatures 'giving up' their former racial identity once undead, so to speak), it would appear that Bennie's second comment on Talk:Adrenius#Race makes a lot more sense than mine! -- Wouterboy (talk) 18:09, November 29, 2017 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for your extensive research on this Wouter!

I have no fundamental problems with implementing this new classification. Some questions which come to mind are:

Is it really necessary to make such extensive use of latin names? Or are these all English names I simply don't know? Anyways, if there are more simple English names (see [wikipedia Ursidae simply redirects to Bear) I would prefer them over latin ones, for several reasons:
- Then I won't have to look it up;
- It is very likely the above counts for other people as well, I think a lot of people visiting our wiki are not taxonomy experts;
- It therefore keeps our wiki more accessible.

However, this is not a deal breaker, I can also see reasons to actually use those latin names, to be more precise and have no ambiguity what the boundaries of the category are.

Reading between the lines, it seems you used our current 2-tiered system as a given starting point. In my opinion, this was an arbitrary choice, it is perfectly fine to change this to a 3-tiered system or even more, if that would make more sense. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this.

Regarding "parameter improvement", that is certainly feasible. We have the tooling to change templates and mass-edit pages, so if you have some concrete propositions we can execute them. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:01, November 29, 2017 (UTC)

Good job, Wouterboy!

I had the same thoughts as Bennie concerning the nomenclature and the possibility of third tiers when suited (e.g for humans).

I had a feeling that Cip based on our current taxonomy to classify monsters in Cyclopedia's Bestiary. We should create a new parameter for that different classification and create pages for those classes (redirect them to the new taxonomy pages?).

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 19:37, November 29, 2017 (UTC)

I'm very well aware that the nomenclature used can be very alienating to many of our users. However, this is simply the language of taxonomy and taxonomy is an exact matter. In your example, Ursids and Bears can only be used fully interchangeably because both can only refer to the family of bears. If you were to replace e.g. Anurans with Frogs, though, you'll be inviting ambiguity, as Frogs can refer both to the order Anura as well as to any family of frogs. A statement such as “Toads are frogs.” can therefore be both right and wrong depending on what taxon you are referring to exactly. No such ambiguity is possible when using the official scientific terminology, as any term can refer to one taxon only. Moreover, many such taxa don't even have a colloquial English equivalent.
I have indeed considered going from a two-tier system to a three-tier system, but I didn't think that would make any more sense. I feel that doing that would make our taxonomy too cluttered and cumbersome. Finding the right broad–narrow balance for our lower-tier categories and loosely organising them within convenient upper-tier categories is the ideal system for this wiki in my opinion.
My first concrete proposition regarding parameter improvements would be the one I mentioned in 4.2. (By extension, a similar parameter could be used for Quest Items/Quest Objects, since those categories are also superstrate and shouldn't be used to actually classify items and objects. There's no point in implementing something like that without first uniting the two infoboxes, though.)
Hunter, only sometimes making use of a third tier would simply be inconsistent. Moreover, this idea would literally be impossible to apply to your example, since all current humans belong to the subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens and there's simply no way of going lower than that. That's the reason I'm a supporter of the non-racial splits I mentioned in 4.1. Anyone looking for the Voodoo Cultists, for example, would still be able to find all of them together under their own heading and in their own list on the Humans page through a Voodoo Cultists redirect that points to Humans#Voodoo Cultists.
We should indeed create a parameter for what bestiary class a creature falls into, but I don't think we should create pages for those classes. That would make it seem as if we're using two competing taxonomies at the same time, which would only confuse users. I think it would be best if we use Bestiary Creature Classes to list all creatures by their bestiary entry in collapsible lists and have the parameter link to and automatically open the right list, e.g. bestiaryclass = aquatic would link to and automatically open the list for Bestiary Creature Classes#Aquatic. -- Wouterboy (talk) 18:00, December 1, 2017 (UTC)

As far as the latter part of point 4 is concerned, I've already thought of a better solution. It would actually make more sense to retain the Voodoo Cultists page (and similar pages) as it is (but outside of our taxonomy), because even though it doesn't have anything to do with race, it's still concerned with a coherent group of creatures that 'belong' together. This way we won't have to break the DPL on taxonomy pages to create separate lists specifically for such groups. We could even create an entirely new parameter that's concerned with non-racial grouping (so it wouldn't function as a third tier of our taxonomy but rather be completely independent of it) that would only be applied where appropriate and which would give the user a bit more creature context beyond race. -- Wouterboy (talk) 12:07, December 2, 2017 (UTC)

Thumbs up for non-racial groups. :)

Should we make those groups for all lower tier classes listed in Template:Creature Types that are not going to be part of the new taxonomy?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 13:51, December 2, 2017 (UTC)

We should for many of them, yes. Some of them don't fit the bill, though. Take for example Skeletons. It's just a mishmash of undead creatures that happen to have a certain aspect of their appearance in common; they don't actually form a specific 'clan' like the Voodoo Cultists do and are therefore not similar to one another in a way that matters, i.e. the connection this page establishes between the creatures is completely random and not useful to our users. The Voodoo Cultists page, on the other hand, clearly deals with creatures that 'belong' together and can be useful to our users in finding out what other creatures can generally be found in e.g. an Acolyte of the Cult's vicinity. The The Ruthless Seven page can be useful because it deals with a connection that was made for us by Cipsoft themselves (otherwise we wouldn't have had any reason to group them together in the first place), and so on. -- Wouterboy (talk) 14:02, December 3, 2017 (UTC)

I think our system as well as yours both seem to make unnecessary resemblance to some real-world categorization. Taxonomic categorizations rely on evolutionary or genetic characteristics which are obviously out of scope for a fantasy game. CipSoft can invent a new species that clearly overlaps two categories. CipSoft can implement, say, an amphibian/bird hybrid. Hence, your system is not robust; it does not resist the addition of hybrid species. I feel like a hierarchical structure is inappropriate for this reason; it assumes a well-defined structure that does not exist because Tibia does not conform to the laws of nature. How can we infer about creatures in a fantasy setting based on our understanding of a real world? We can't. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:24, December 4, 2017 (UTC)

I see your point, but most of the time we can in fact infer about Tibian creatures based on our understanding of the real world because Tibia's foundation is the real world. Tibia therefore mostly does conform to the laws of nature and a somewhat well-defined structure therefore does exist. Refusing to acknowledge Tibia's real-life foundations would mean to misrepresent the game, something which just seems gratuitously deceitful to me. CipSoft used these foundations as their starting point and simply remoulded them to allow for the inclusion of fantasy creatures, and we can do exactly the same with our taxonomy by using real-life scientific classification as our starting point and then remoulding that.

As far as hybrid species are concerned, they already exist: we have the Rorc, the Forest Fury, Lycanthropes, etc. (and to respond to your amphibian/bird hybrid example: any bird able to breathe through its skin can scientifically speaking never be considered a bird, so it wouldn't cause us any problems exactly because our taxonomy uses real-life scientific classification as its foundation). I've considered such cases and I personally think they should only be classified as the species they are primarily, i.e. as the one species that defines them most: Rorcs and Forest Furies are in essence still Orcs and Elves respectively despite their mutations, whereas the Lycanthropes in their particular state are more beast than man and therefore better classified as animals. Using such self-dictated guidelines to circumvent any overlaps we might encounter in the fantasy department in order to make our taxonomy more robust seems like a rational thing to do, especially since I reckon overlaps are always going to be hard to avoid regardless of whatever taxonomic system we might be using. -- Wouterboy (talk) 23:44, December 4, 2017 (UTC)

You have solid arguments, although it very obviously introduces subjectivity in the decision-making process when overlapping species are added. However, the usefulness of either system is inhibited by the fact that few of our users actually care for taxonomic classification, because it doesn't help them to decide what to hunt or what drops a particular item. Thus, a hierarchical classification is mostly a "nice to have" feature. I would be accepting of your suggestion under the expectation that none of our internal systems rely on such a classification and the taxonomy is not designed around in-game features. For example, The Colours of Magic has "party animals" and "spellcaster" creatures to which a reward applies. Our classification should be totally independent of any such systems (because we cannot regulate the game mechanics). -- Sixorish (talk) 08:16, December 5, 2017 (UTC)

Strictly adhering to a single-entry system indeed adds a bit of subjectivity into the mix regarding hybrids, but most of the time one part of a hybrid creature does clearly tend to manifest itself more prominently and crucially than the other, meaning that the presupposition of some sort of instinctive consensus is not necessarily an absolutely laughable substitute for rationality. For instance, I think most people would agree that the fact that the Rorc was originally a purebred Orc should have more bearing on its classification than the Terror Bird part that's there solely as a result of mutation.

You're also right in saying that a taxonomy is mostly a nice-to-have feature most users won't really care about, but at the same time I do feel a game-based wiki such as ours has the responsibility to create and maintain classification systems encompassing all members of a particular gameplay class (whether it be Creatures, or Items, or what have you) to allow anyone access to all members of any such class at once through the use of just one neatly organised hub.

I strived to make our new creature classification system as taxonomically sound as possible, which is why I purposely avoided incorporating anything into it that has to do with the 'role' a particular creature might have been assigned in-game. All that matters is what the creature itself really is in isolation, i.e. without paying regard to any external gameplay-related noise. -- Wouterboy (talk) 00:32, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Calculators not loading

Hey guys, I noticed that the page Calculators is not working. It keeps loading indefinitely. I tested it on 5 different browsers (Windows 10) and they all have Javascript enabled. Can anyone take a look at it?

Tyrodus Zeth (talk) 17:17, January 16, 2018 (UTC)

As you can read in its talk page, it works on Firefox when using Monobook skin. I'll ask Wikia / FANDOM to have a look at it and try to fix it.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:19, January 16, 2018 (UTC)

Lists filtering out Tibia History

Hey guys,

I've noticed a lot of our DPL lists are excluding Category:Tibia History still after the integration of history information in the main pages. This means that a lot of lists are potentially incomplete. If a DPL list is not showing something, this is most likely the problem. -- Sixorish (talk) 09:40, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Good point, I will (soon) do a wiki-wide search on usage of this category in dpl lists and remove them if necessary. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 18:48, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Oh wait, stupid me, I already did this in 2016 as I myself listed here. However, the case on Calculators was "|notcategory=Tibia History" (without a space between the pipe and notcategory). I will look for all variations, with or without spaces. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:51, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

There was a space between the pipe and notcategory in Mounts which was fixed two days ago. Perhaps your bot account couldn't fix it because the page is protected.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:28, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Probably true, my bot does not have admin rights (I don't want it to accidentally delete stuff). -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:04, February 1, 2018 (UTC)

I ran my bot but did not find any more cases which need to be fixed. Case closed. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:40, February 3, 2018 (UTC)

Owners of "rare" items in articles

When wiki started many years ago, the idea behind "rare items" was much different then what it is today. There were probably only two dozen rare items, including those from very old times (e.g. Crown) and some like the Pharaoh Rares. These days, with all the new bosses and items that are only dropped by one or two of them, we have dozens of items which are rare, but at the same time are probably unknown by the vast majority of players. To add to that, we have a considerable number of fansite/contest/special items that are only given by CipSoft (or with their permission). While many of these are indeed rare (like some Fansite Items), others have been given out so many times that they are not really rare (for example the Silver Trophy of Excellence, I have one and it's not listed :>).

Keeping track of these has proved to be a challenge, and these days we don't even know in which server many of these rares are or if they still exist at all. It's not hard to click an owner name in an item's article and find out the character doesn't even exist anymore (deleted or name changed). So I propose that we should be more strict and remove many of the player's name references from pages in order to keep them cleaner and remove content that is outdated and hard/impossible to maintain.

1. An item can have its owners* listed only if the item was somewhat publicly given by CipSoft or by Supported/Promoted fansite.

Items (or groups) of items that fall into this category are:

Fansite Items (not all Contest Prizes)
Special gifts given by CipSoft for various reasons (Dragon Scale Legs, Laurel Wreath, Miniature House, Council Certificate)

The reason I used somewhat is that I can think of some exceptions to this publicity rule. For example, Gamemaster Dolls were not announced, but were given to a very specific group of players (we don't have that list though). The same thing can be said about Council Certificates. The Laurel Wreaths were not announced on Tibia.com, but they were announced during a meeting with many different tutors that witnessed it.

Some items, despite the fact that they were given by CipSoft or a Fansite, are either relatively common or their receivers were not announced, meaning tracking them is impossible. I think we should remove lists from these items and, when possible, link to the news where the winners were announced (for example CM Tokens). For example:

Contest Prizes given by CipSoft, such as Arcane Insignia and CM Token.
Contest Prizes given by Fansites: Silver Trophy of Excellence and Bronze Trophy of Excellence.
The Famous Golden Bugs, there are too many of them to count or track, and current list is completely outdated.

Note: even though we say owners, it would be preferred if we only mentioned players who received the items, since all of them are passive of being traded. Also, we can never say for sure if other players have received one copy of the item. Thus, it would be more accurate to mention those are known receivers. For example: Players known to have received a Heavily Bound Book are.... The Heavily Bound Book article actually have some good examples of how we can add the information while not being at risk of being outdated due to trades.

2. Items that are just rare loots should not have their owners listed, since they are more likely to be traded, obtained again or even completely lose the rarity status. For example:

3. Important historical information about some items can and should be kept, of course. Most Tibians are interested and like to have a source on the story behind the Magic Longsword, for instance. A drawn must be line, however, in order for us to define what is history and what isn't. The very Magic Longsword page has conflicting information regarding its current owner. I would personally suggest the removal of the Current Location section and the Moises~ paragraph, but that is up for debate of course. Other items in a similar situation:

Crown
Blessed Shield
Rose Shield
Horned Helmet
The majority of these old-Antica rares.

These changes would require some manual searches, and maybe we could add a short summary of the final rules to TibiaWiki:Policy. Then we would have to keep an eye out for new edits of this kind. Please let me know what you think of these new rules suggestion and of course feel free to suggest some changes as I may have overlooked something important.

Molx (talk) 18:49, February 9, 2018 (UTC)

These seem some well-thought rules Molx, I can only agree with them. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:06, February 9, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with you, Molx. What should we do with rare item lists on game world articles?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 20:36, February 9, 2018 (UTC)

Yea i agree with you as well. this is a good change to be made. some of those pages have lists that are outdated, way too long and irrelevant,it just clutters the information (like Yellow Rose for example).
maybe that information should also be in a separate place, similar to a quest spoiler or a different page altogether like /Transcripts page, what do you think?
as to rares on game world articles, and in general i think we should make the distinction between looted or won in a contest to owns (on a game world, first person who looted is a part of the server's history) and remove owners of items that aren't impossibly rare (like Crown,The Horned Fox etc)
Vapaus (talk) 11:48, February 10, 2018 (UTC)

> maybe that information should also be in a separate place, similar to a quest spoiler or a different page altogether like /Transcripts page, what do you think?

For the items that keep their "lists" it may be a good idea, but I'm not sure to be honest. In many cases the list would be too small and a dedicated page would look odd. If the list is so big that it is cluttering the main page, then perhaps it shouldn't be there at all. One exception is the Heavily Bound Book since its records are detailed for obvious reasons.

I haven't thought about World pages when I first wrote this, but I guess the same problems apply: we can't keep track. If we were only to mention prize items, it wouldn't make any sense, receiving a contest prize is the player's merit, not the game world's (unlike being the first one to defeat a hard boss, for example). And let's be fair: currently, many world pages are very very outdated, which is the result of so many worlds, world changes, character transfers and our own, of course. If we barely manage to update the first characters to reach this or that level, I don't think we would succeed in maintaining rare items, and if we decide to keep the records of any items, it would mean a second page (or group of pages) to update when necessary. The only world with any relevance in terms of rare items is Antica due to the fact that most of them originated from this world when CipSoft wasn't so professional and introduced rare items somewhat often. And even so, despite the concentration of rare items being larger there, the world lost its unique status long ago with character world transfers.

TL;DR: I suggest removing all item owners from game world pages. We keep the relevant information only on item's pages.

Molx (talk) 17:32, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Standardizing Appearences

There are 4 types of Appearances in Tibia:

Objects: Items, Objects and Corpses
Outfits: Character's Outfits as well as all creatures' outfits
Effects: Effects
Missiles: Also Effects

I think TibiaWiki's pages should reflect how the appearences are organized by CipSoft, but currently they are not, as seen above. I dream of the day when we will not have both Template:Infobox Item and Template:Infobox Object anymore, but that will obviously be a huge task and require a lot of bot-jobs I can't handle. I can, however, manually change the Missiles to Template:Infobox Missile.

I was thinking about first copying the template, and then adding the missileid parameter (or just id). We can add one to Effects as well. This should also help us add all the Effects/Missiles we are missing (there are 191 + 59 of them, we only have 112). Any objections or suggestions?

Molx (talk) 01:31, May 22, 2018 (UTC)

No objections. Go ahead! :)

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 11:17, May 22, 2018 (UTC)

When I added the tibia missiles as tibiawiki effects I did this because I thought there is no real difference. Of course it is totally fine to split them off now. Alternatively you could let them keep using the same template but add a distinguishing parameter called "type" or something similar.

Adding ids is a really good idea, please go ahead, we should add this to all pages which already have an id in tibia. I would go for "missileid" and not just "id", since this is similar to Infobox Item where we have "itemid".

If you need a bot to run any bulk edits, just let me know. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:48, May 22, 2018 (UTC)

Loot Statistics

Hmm, I was just thinking... wouldn't it make more sense for the loot statistics pages to be creature sub-pages? So Rat/Loot Statistics rather than Loot Statistics:Rat? -- Wouterboy (talk) 10:58, April 5, 2019 (UTC)

I think that having those in a specific namespace has its advantages. For example, we can see in a User's edit count how much of his/hers contribution was loot statistics, which is an easy way to get your total count of edits up. We have users with thousands of edits but only a few that weren't statistics. For example, 32% of my Edit Count is actually from statistics, 4,769 out of 14,769.

It also makes advanced searching easier since we can exclude the statistics.

Molx (talk) 13:19, April 5, 2019 (UTC)

When we first introduced the system of Loot Statistics, we had reasons to make a separate namespace, one of them being the ability to filter away loot statistics edits from the recent changes page, which is only possible with a separate namespace. Interesting to note, is this wasn't the case from the start (see some red links here. You could argue that these reasons are not very relevant anymore, but I think it would be hard to argue that the current situation requires for a massive overhaul (moving all loot pages). -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:51, April 6, 2019 (UTC)

Very interesting information, and good reasoning. I guess it's just one of those changes that would be very satisfying but simply less practical than the alternative. -- Wouterboy (talk) 11:16, April 6, 2019 (UTC)

Loot from Cow

I edited items looted from Cow that are sellable to Yasir. Now somebody has to add them to Yasir list, I can't do this . Maybe there are other items from the event Orcsoberfest that needs to be added. Zvezdiica (talk) 23:26, January 18, 2020 (UTC)

I did that, thanks for your contribution. Indeed there are some items and other info still missing from this event, part of it we'll only be able to gather next time the event happens. -- Molx (talk) 05:15, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

Creature Types of Tibia

Amphibians	Anurans Njey Quara Urodelans

Birds	Aequorlitornithes Columbavians Galloanseres Inopinavians

Elementals	Bio- Electro- Geo- Hydro- Pyro-

Fish	Actinopterygians Chondrichthians

Humanoids	Astral Shapers Chakoyas Cyclopes Dwarves Dworcs Elves Frost Giants Gnomes Goblins Ogres Orclopses Orcs Trolls

Immortals	Animated Objects Demons Djinn Fae Magic Entities The Undead

Invertebrates	Arachnids Bonelords Cephalopods Clitellates Gastropods Insects Malacostracans Medusozoans Myriapods

Mammals	Bovids Camelids Canids Cervids Chiropterans Elephantids Equids Eulipotyphlans Felids Humans Hyaenids Lagomorphs Musteloids Prehumans Rhinocerotids Rodents Suids Ursids

Reptiles	Crocodilians Dragons Draken Lacertids Serpents Testudinians

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{Archives|count=5
-{{Archives|count=4
  |Aug08-Oct08
  |Oct08-Jul09
  |Jul09-May12
  |Jun12-Jan15
+ |Jan15-Jul16
 }}
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 Feel free to discuss things among admins. Ask things to admins, propose new ideas etc. Reporting a vandal can also be perfectly done here, but is not really the intention of this page. Also note that this page doesn't have the same function as [[TibiaWiki talk:Community Portal]].
 ----
+__TOC__
+== History section on content pages ==
-== Revamp - [[Template:Infobox Item]] ==
+Hey guys. I'd like your opinion on adding a history section to pages. Currently we link to history subpages. Under the new system the subpages would stay for ease of editing but they would be included on the pages. The format of these history pages would be very different. We would need a standard for formatting them.
-Hi guys,
+I have a working example of what I'd like to see: [[A Sweaty Cyclops]]. Notable changes:
-Here's my first installment of a huge restructuring of our templates:
+* History template gone.
-* [[User:Sixorish/Item2]]
+* Formatting: bullet points for core changes and indenting for elaboration.
-* [[User:Sixorish/Item2/Axe]] (compare: [[Axe]])
+* Headings: no more "Origin", "Ice protection" etc. headings; the headings [[Pair of Earmuffs/History|currently describe the changes]] (what), but they should describe the version (when). If [[Pair of Earmuffs]] receives another ice protection adjustment where would that go? Versions that introduce changes to an item should have a unique header.
-* [[User:Sixorish/Item2/Pair of Soft Boots]] (compare: [[Pair of Soft Boots]])
+Of course this would be a long-term change. All history pages would need to be adjusted. The sooner we agree on a format the sooner we can get it done.
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:49, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
+----
+I think we can all agree the history pages didn't work out what was intended when the format was created in the first page. The idea to have an origin for every history page wasn't really usable, either "introduced in update xx" (but we have implemented for this). Only a few pages have interesting origin stories.
+So I agree a change is needed. Moving the content to the main articles seems reasonable, given that most history pages are very short right now, it saves a click if you don't have to navigate to them. I would suggest just completely moving their content instead of including (this would increase speed? or it doesn't matter after it's cached?).
-These templates are subject to change. I'm open to any suggestions.
+It's a big project indeed, if every edit would be needed to be done manually. But I agree it's needed. I agree with your format, although I can imagine the bullet point list looks a little technical to most people.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 07:37, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:00, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+We should always think on what is the best for our visitors to read and to edit. Thus, moving the history to the content page seems the best option.<br />
-I definately like the better way of using horizontal space, but I must admit it takes some time to find each piece of info (obviously because they are placed in a different spot and I'm not used to this). Do I have to reload css, because I see almost no layout atm?
+Thanks Six for putting time and energy on this!
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 12:48, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-I can't imagine why the CSS wouldn't load for you. Here's what you should see:
-<gallery>
-File:TibiaWiki New Item Layout 1.png
-File:TibiaWiki New Item Layout 2.png
-File:TibiaWiki New Item Layout 3.png
-File:TibiaWiki New Item Layout 4.png
-</gallery>
-The key features are:
-* Short key/value pairs are displayed in a table to the right. This allows more space for the other content, like notes, to flow around it.
-* Trade tables are displayed alongside each other. I think this is very important because currently you have to check the label, whereas people will eventually get a feel for buyfrom/sellto based on its position (left or right).
-* It uses more logical structure/elements. I think this is important because search engines will treat our content differently depending on the elements we use in our pages.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 02:22, May 28, 2015 (UTC)
-With all that said, I'm not an experienced web designer. I think the structure of the page is better but I don't have a good feel for what looks good and is intuitive to use. I got feedback from my friends and adjusted it until they were tired of telling me they didn't like it. I don't know if they genuinely hated it or if they were too adapted to the current layout which we've had for years. What I do know is: the current layout is inadequate, outdated, and doesn't address our needs since we've moved to Wikia (and began using their skin). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:12, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Just to follow up on this old discussion, currently I'm working on history pages. What would you think is better:
-I agree with your friends that it could use improvement, but this already is definitely way better than what we use now. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 14:26, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
+#History section is always shown, if no history is available this is displayed in italic text;
-----
+#History section is hidden by default, but is displayed if parameter exists.
-I agree that it is better use of space and it will take time to get used to. If you plan to try a few different layouts then we should do a poll to see which is most useful/appealing.
-<br />Besides structure my biggest concern would be that we still have a lot of information ''available''. Your Soft Boots example currently does not have the classes/types, transferable, implemented version date, the tables for Boots and all Items, and maybe a few others. I know these can be added in anytime but i was curious if you left them out intentionally or not. I prefer to maintain all info but they do not need to be in the same structure, necessarily.
-<br />Side note that this reminded me of: At some point i want to add a basic template or update the current one for the Update/X.XX pages and redo the main [[Update]] page with a table using said template.
-<br />--[[User:DM|DM]] ><((°> [[Special:Contributions/DM|Contribs]] <°))>< [[User_talk:DM|talk to me]] 21:52, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-Thanks I added transferable and classification rows in the table. I decided not to include itemclass because primarytype implies (or is meant to imply) itemclass. The template could still use it 'behind the scenes' of course. However, maybe something to think about later is a change to the classifications, because they don't always have a shared concept ("Plants, Animal Products, Food and Drink" is a valid itemclass, when its name is just a list of all constituents...)
-Another thing: this change will involve templating the droppedby parameter. I think this is the best way to go because it would enforce a standard to be used within the templates. This is the best option for creating a list instead of formatted links, other methods would involve complex string functions which gets hairy and is harder to use/maintain.
-Also this new layout should be easier to adapt to changes, like mobile devices and skin adjustments. I thought Wikia was enabling a fluid layout on all wikis but that doesn't seem to have happened. If it does, we'll at least be more able to adapt to it.
+The advantage of the first option is editors know they can add history on pages which don't have it, but visitors might be annoyed by the message there is no history on 90% of our pages.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:12, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:13, August 24, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+I'd go for the second option because of exactly what you said.
-I have the feeling you're in the right way, Six. Nice job so far! I'll try to catch you online.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 09:03, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:15, September 12, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+Ok, this has been implemented in all relevant infobox templates. Only some item history subpages need to be merged with their main item page.
-With Dragoes' help I have changed some of the styles. Please check the pages again and tell me what you think. The blue background seems to have made a huge difference. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:16, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:00, September 27, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+All remaining pages using [[Template:History]] have been merged.
-Looks A LOT better now, I'm starting to like it. Some questions:
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 15:08, October 14, 2016 (UTC)
-*What do you mean with "status: active"? That it is obtainable in game and not unobtainable or deprecated or from an event?
-*bought for has two dashes, shouldn't that be converted to something else (I think we have something else in the current template), some text I mean.
-*The text in the dropped by box is considerably larger than the other text, I don't like that (it gives emphasis, which is not needed or wanted)
-*also about the dropped by, what about the loot statistics data? Will the percent values be visible later on? (I imagine this javascript is set to an id/class you don't use currently).
-*I would like a background color behind the properties table to the right. Borders and/or background colors give structure to a page. It should be easy to distinguish the different blocks of information.
-*Maybe also a little background color (rounded) to the headers. Or a border bottom.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 13:39, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
-* Yes, status will mean just that - if it's obtainable, if it's deprecated, or if it's a TS feature (like [[Test Server Assistant]]).
-* I'll remove that.
-* Yes the JS will need to be adjusted to account for the new structure. I'll look into that when the template is finalized/agreed on.
-* I've tried a few different colors but I can't find one that fits. I think the bold property names distinguish the table from the rest of the content.
-* I'll add a gold border to the bottom of each section header. However, I don't think any color really complements gold well to use as a background color.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:49, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-Some ideas we had:<br />
-For items:
-*Add the following parameters:
-**pickupable (binary parameter; so we can merge [[Template:Infobox Item]] and [[Template:Infobox Object]]);
-**walkable (binary parameter);
-**market (binary parameter);
-**axeMod, clubMod, distMod, mlMod, swordMod, shieldMod, speedMod (skill modifiers);
-**immobile (binary parameter; if ''yes'', diplay ''Moveable: no'');
-**walkingspeed (% of base speed; for floors);
-**height, width (1=32px);
-**blocksmissile (binary parameter);
-**blockspath (binary parameter);
-**holdsliquid (binary parameter);
-**hangable (binary parameter);
-**rotatable (binary or 2/4?);
-**floorchange (binary parameter);
-**ingameheight (height value);
-**spriteID (to detect items sharing the same sprite);
-**effect (effect name; if an item displays an effect when used ingame, this info should be on the item page);
-**readable (binary parameter);
-**rewritable (binary parameter);
-**decaytime;
-**decayedfrom (item name);
-**decaysto (item name);
-**changesto (item name; if an item changes into another when "used");
-**displaytime (binary parameter; items that display Tibian time when "used").
-*Only display ''npcprice'', ''npcvalue'', ''stackable'', ''transferable'', ''value'' and ''weight'' if ''pickupable = yes'';
-*Only display ''changesto'', ''decaytime'', ''decayedfrom'', ''decaysto'', ''destructable'', ''displaytime'', ''floorchange'', ''hangable'', ''holdsliquid'', ''ingameheight'', ''rotatable'', ''walkingspeed'', ''writable'' and skill modifiers if corresponding values exist;
-*Only display ''blocksmissile'', ''blockspath'', ''immobile'' and ''walkable'' values if ''pickupable = no'';
-*Review all existing strings on ''attributes'' field and create new parameters;
-*Currently, ''attributes'' is displayed in parentheses after item name, this should be reviewed.
+== New item parameters ==
-For monsters:
-*Add the following parameters:
-**blood (blood type: Fire, Poison, Bones, Blood?);
-**corpse (corpse name);
-**raceNumber;
-**outfit;
-**pushCreatures (binary parameter);
-**seeInvisible (binary parameter);
-**lifeDrainImmune (binary parameter);
-**paralyzeImmune (binary parameter);
-**rewardSystem (binary parameter).
+Hey guys,
-For NPCs:
-*Add the following parameters:
-**outfit (in addition to ''race'');
-**radius.
+I am working on the [[Updates/10.94]] weapons. This is a huge project, there are 120 wiki pages needed, from which only one third are created up till now. There is something else as well, I wanted to add six new parameters to [[Template:Infobox Item]]:
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 15:24, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
+*crithit_ch
+*critextra_dmg
+*manaleech_ch
+*manaleech_am
+*hpleech_ch
+*hpleech_am
+This will have the advantage to query for these properties with DPL, to have them in separate table columns and not everything grouped in the ''attributes'' column. Like previously discussed, this should also be done with all the damage modifies like "axe fighting + 1". Any objections or thoughts?
-: We can automatically add many of these parameters on pages that have an ID. Therefore, we should add ID parameter to the remaining ''items'' and to ''objects'' (this one might be tricky).
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:19, August 24, 2016 (UTC)
-: [[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 02:32, January 13, 2015 (UTC)
----
-Check out table headers which are links, like on [[Boat]]. The blue links are barely readable in contrast with the blue headers. --[[User:DM|DM]] ><((°> [[Special:Contributions/DM|Contribs]] <°))>< [[User_talk:DM|talk to me]] 03:29, January 13, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Yes, go for it! As [[Talk:Administrator Team/Archive 5#Revamp - Template:Infobox Item|I stated last year]], I believe skill and speed modifiers should also have their own individual parameters.<br />
-Thanks. I changed the link text on the table headers. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 07:51, January 13, 2015 (UTC)
+Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:24, September 12, 2016 (UTC)
+----
+Ok, I implemented the six new parameters and made separate DPL templates to list them. I will start adding new parameters soon and include skill and speed modifiers as well.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:01, September 27, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
-Loot% on items and creatures should be working, but it depends on JS wgTitle (e.g. Axe vs. Sixorish/Item2/Axe) so it will not work on those pages until they go live.
+== Node-count limit ==
-Here's what will change:
-* [[Template:Infobox Item]]
-** Gains parameters:
-**#article
-**#plural
-**#actualname
-**#pickupable
-** Parameter changes:
-**#droppedby must now use {{Template|Dropped By}}
-**#sounds must now use {{Template|Sound List}}
-* [[Template:Infobox Creature]]
-** Gains parameters:
-**#article
-**#plural
-**#actualname
-**#spawntype
-** Parameter changes:
-**#loot must now use {{Template|Loot Table}} which should use {{Template|Loot Item}}
-**#sounds must now use {{Template|Sound List}}
-* [[Template:Infobox Spell]]
-** Gains parameters:
-**#element
-** Parameter changes:
-* [[Template:Infobox NPC]]
-** Gains parameters:
-**#posx
-**#posy
-**#posz
-**#street
-**#gender
-**#race
-** Parameter changes:
-**#sounds must now use {{Template|Sound List}}
+Does anyone know how to extend the node-count limit or how to circumvent it?
-The pages that will be changed are:
-* [[Template:Infobox Item]] &rarr; [[User:Sixorish/Item2]] ([[User:Sixorish/Item2/Axe|Axe]], [[User:Sixorish/Item2/Panda Teddy|Panda Teddy]], [[User:Sixorish/Item2/Pair of Soft Boots|Pair of Soft Boots]], [[User:Sixorish/Item2/Magic Sulphur|Magic Sulphur]])
-* [[Template:Infobox Creature]] &rarr; [[User:Sixorish/Creature2]] ([[User:Sixorish/Creature2/Rat|Rat]], [[User:Sixorish/Creature2/Demon|Demon]], [[User:Sixorish/Creature2/Hellgorak|Hellgorak]])
-* [[Template:Infobox NPC]] &rarr; [[User:Sixorish/NPC2]] ([[User:Sixorish/NPC2/Sam|Sam]])
-* [[Template:Infobox Spell]] &rarr; [[User:Sixorish/Spell2]] ([[User:Sixorish/Spell2/Find Person|Find Person]])
-Other templates will be untouched for now. I'd like it if the item template could support objects so I have avoided them for the time being.
+Affected pages:
-Are there any objections to this? If there are no objections I will work on a script to make all necessary changes before the templates can be used. The templates still need some edits to accommodate for transclusion but otherwise they are done.
+* <s>[[Physical Damage/Neutral]]</s>
+* <s>[[Holy Damage/Neutral]]</s>
+* <s>[[Creature Products by NPC Price and Price to Weight Ratio]]</s>
+* <s>[[List of Creatures by Experience to Hit Points Ratio]]</s>
+* [[Loot/Pits of Inferno‎]]
+* [[Loot/Foreigner Quarter‎]]
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:47, September 12, 2016 (UTC)
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:15, January 16, 2015 (UTC)
+:It's called [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Template limits#Preprocessor node count|preprocessor node count]]. Kirkburn said ''this is not something we are likely to be able to raise (at least in the short term)'' and suggested us to ''look into ways to reduce the complexity of the page - perhaps by splitting it into more pages, or reducing the number of template calls it makes''.
+:How can we reduce the number of template calls? Should we remove Loot and Dropped By columns from those pages (and all similar pages in order to keep the standards)?
+:[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 16:01, September 17, 2016 (UTC)
+::Seems to work, tested on [[Physical Damage/Neutral]]. I don't know what columns are most important to keep.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:49, September 17, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+Two more pages added to the list. By the way, shouldn't there be a ''Loot'' namespace for [[:Category:Loot Pages|such pages]]?
-I agree with the technical changes and I think the overall layout of the new templates looks good. Some minor tweaks in colors/layout are still possible, but that can be done in a later stage as well. Some remaining questions:
-*The sidebar disappeared, as well as the creatureclass or itemclass templates. Is that intended?
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 09:14, September 28, 2016 (UTC)
-*I'm a bit scared people will be mad about the change, is there anything we can do about that? Warn people a change is coming and ask for feedback? Do a poll, give the community a feeling they have a say? I don't know.
+----
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 16:53, January 16, 2015 (UTC)
+Re: namespace - No way. We're limited in the number of custom namespaces we can have (2 I think). Besides, these Loot pages are outdated and should probably be removed completely since they create huge maintenance jobs (if a creature's loot table is modified, all loot pages with that creature have to be updated) and they're seldom used (probably because they aren't up to date?). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 16:20, November 19, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+Just tuning in to say that I agree with Six regarding the pointlessness of those loot pages. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 17:04, November 19, 2016 (UTC)
-Yes there probably will be a bit of negativity, just because it's a change and nobody likes change. With that said I don't think a poll will be representative of the layout's value, because everyone will vote that they don't like it without considering the possible advantages of the change. Besides, we'd have to alter the main page for a poll because any other page will get very little attention.
+== Renaming category for NPCs ==
-But of course we should ask for the users' feedback. I'll work on [[TibiaWiki:Projects/2015 Layout Revamp]] so that we can link to it in the news and ask them to post feedback on the talk page. Other than that I don't see what we can do to get good feedback on the layout. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:56, January 17, 2015 (UTC)
+Hey all,
-Oh and the sidebar is removed because that was taking up a lot of space where we didn't want that. If we decide that pages need it, we can create a list on the bottom similar to the 'dropped by' list (3-4 columns). Personally, I almost never care for "related monsters" but maybe less experienced people might, I don't know. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:29, January 17, 2015 (UTC)
+I plan to rename the category: [[:Category:NPCs in Tibia]] to [[:Category:NPCs]], which is more logical. Are there any objections to abstain from doing so?
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 12:08, November 27, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+I believe [[:Category:NPCs in Tibia]] is meant to be applied only to individual NPCs and [[:Category:NPCs]] is meant to apply only to groups of them. However, the latter is barely used for its intended purpose, as you can see from the low amount of pages that are listed under it. The question you should ask yourself is whether this special group-sorting category is even necessary, especially given the fact that categories such as [[:Category:NPC Locations]] and [[:Category: NPC Occupations]] have taken over this role for a large part. Based on the outcome of those ponderings you can then decide either to carry out the move or to abandon it. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 16:21, November 27, 2016 (UTC)
-I've added {{Template|Navigation}} to the bottom of the Creature2 template and adjusted the styles a bit. Let me know if it's acceptable or any improvements that can be made. Example: [[User:Sixorish/Creature2/Hellgorak]]. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 17:37, January 19, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Ok, I think I made all necessary arrangements to do the change. Soon I will let my bot crawl over all wiki pages to do this search-and-replace. Hopefully this will catch them all and break nothing.
-I will start converting creatures to the new system tomorrow if there are no objections. I'd like to get this done before February because I'll have a lot less time to work on big projects. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 02:58, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:19, November 27, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
-Yes, go ahead. Apparently there is no feedback.
+== [[Template:Infobox Item]] and [[Imbuing]] ==
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:50, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
+I'd like to propose the removal of the parameter <code>imbuable</code> from the item template. Items are bound by the functional dependency imbuement &rarr; imbuable; an item is imbuable if and only if imbuement > 0. This parameter is not declared on non-imbuable items. Thus, we're storing the same information (imbuable) twice. While at it, I would also like to propose the <code>imbuement</code> parameter be renamed to imbueslots (preferred) or imbuements (plural).
+Any objections to this? (Bennie, if you have time, I could use the service of your bot for this)
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:27, December 16, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+I agree with the removal of the imbuable parameter and rename imbuent to imbueslots. I'll set up my bot to do this soon. On a sidenote, how did you obtain the imbuements information? I couldn't find a list on the test server forum, but they also changed the items a bit since then.
-Today I used [[User:SixBot]] to convert all of the items and creatures to use {{Template|Sound List}}. Items and creatures might look a little odd with the sound spacing until the infobox changes are applied. Tomorrow I will edit NPCs and apply the infobox changes. Then I'll work on a script to convert the loot and droppedby of creatures and items. Hopefully it will all be done before the 24th. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:42, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:15, December 16, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+I had 94ish items and then I realized they added the number of slots to the market. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:35, December 17, 2016 (UTC)
-I apologize. I forgot to log in my bot account before running the script so about 1/3 NPC edits were attributed to this account and they will show on the recent changes. Anyway I've edited all NPCs to convert the sounds, which means all pages should be using {{Template|Sound List}} within their sounds parameters. What's left to do:
-* Replace [[Template:Infobox Item]], [[Template:Infobox Creature]], [[Template:Infobox NPC]], [[Template:Infobox Spell]].
-* Update <code>loot</code> (creatures) and <code>droppedby</code> (items)
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:46, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+The market is a good source of info, didn't realise that as well. My bot is currently editing the 200 pages.
-Can you make blank edits on all affected pages (items, creatures, NPCs and spells), so they update to the new template?
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:17, December 17, 2016 (UTC)
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 04:38, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
-Can you add the link to loot statistics back to [[Template:Infobox Creature]]?
+== Tibia's 20th Anniversary ==
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 07:34, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-I don't think I can purge them through the API because we're using an outdated MW version, and I think SixBot is being rate limited with purging manually, or maybe the server has too much work to do. I'll have a look later, since most pages won't need purging at all by the time I'm done.
+There's not a word about Tibia's 20th Anniversary on the front page of the tibia wiki. Even the events section says "This month, January, there are 2 events: New Year Time and Bewitched." Surely, Tibia's 20th anniversary is worth at least mentioning as an event.
-I've added the loot statistics link back to the creatures. Let me know if it looks odd to you. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:02, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-Thanks, it looks good.
+[[User:Pattre Kempe|Pattre Kempe]] ([[User talk:Pattre Kempe|talk]]) 07:19, January 11, 2017 (UTC)
-Can you fix <code>runsat</code>?
+== CreatureDroppedBy Bot Proposal ==
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 08:15, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
-----
+Hey guys,
-What's wrong with it? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:18, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+I wrote [[User:Bennie/Bot_Proposal|a bot proposal]]. My idea was to write this bot in Java, since I learned it recently and use it daily on my job now. Anyways, a lot of programming languagues already have [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_code API access libraries]. Then I can  just run the bot ~weekly and maybe more during updates. If you have any feedback on this idea I'd like to hear them.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:50, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+i think this is a great idea, the only note i can think of right now is to eliminate certain special loot (silver raid tokens, party wall snake,party wall tinsel, party lampions - or during events like anniversary old rugs)
-Oh, I was missing the message on Behavior section and didn't notice the Behavioral Properties. I have the feeling people will ignore a long list of properties. Maybe we should add some icons later?
+[[User:Vapaus|Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 08:24, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+I think it would be good but there are two scenarios that this will cause issues:
-I think people will eventually get accustomed to the list of properties, as long as it is organized. However, I've added the text back because I didn't mean to remove that. Also I adjusted the text that is displayed in the table when a "rough estimate" is provided instead of a value. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:40, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+* User adds false information.
-----
+*: User A edits [[Demon]], saying that it drops [[Mouldy Cheese]];
-Looks really cool Sixorish! I created a feedback thread on tibia.com, [http://forum.tibia.com/forum/?action=thread&threadid=4325267 here].
+*: '''Your bot adds that information to [[Mouldy Cheese]].'''
+* User removes false information.
+*: User B sees the issue when browsing [[Mouldy Cheese]] (...as one does...) and removes the information from [[Mouldy Cheese]].
+*: '''Your bot adds that information back to [[Mouldy Cheese]].'''
+There are of course workarounds to this:
+* Have all edits marked as pending review; post the list of changes to be made and allow editors to review these before they go live. They can edit the page to remove that item (hopefully making it impossible for your bot to find this issue next run).
+* Post all changes made to an article for review in post.
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:47, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
-One thing I think could use a little improvement, are the weakness/strength % bars which show the percentage value. I like how they show in one glance the value because of their size, but  it would be cool if they could somehow reprecent their element maybe? Or some other color tweak to show the gradient in values in colors (what you have in excel, where low values are red and high values green or something). I'm not sure what would look good.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:30, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Thanks Vapaus, that's a good point. I think there is a list of filtered items in the loot parser which I can use and also add stuff like [[Gold Coin]] which we don't list a droppedby list of.
-Thanks for adding it back, Six. Good idea about the feedback thread, Bennie. I've thought the same about the gradient bars. Other thing we could do is to show the differences from the original/base hit. All bars would have their origins aligned, bars going to the left would be positive differences (>100%), and bars going to the left would be negative differences (<100%). However, I don't think it would fit in the template.
+Sixorish, that's a good point but will only be an issue if I'd let the bot run without any double-checking. I'll have to look for false positives in the beginning and think of ways to filter them later.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 09:47, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+I (almost) have a first working version.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 13:32, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
-One thing I would like point out is that the articles are missing in items' new flavourtexts. This results in lines such as "You see axe ring (axe fighting +4)." -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 13:27, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+I thought the plan was to run it as a weekly cron job, fully unmanned; if you're checking the changes yourself, that shouldn't be an issue. Are you looking for help on the coding side of things? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:21, February 22, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Well, a fully unmanned situation would be ideal, but requires some extra measures to prevent situations to happen, like you described.
-@Bennie: I changed it to use +-% for the resistance bars. I'd like it if the properties table kept the absolute % (105% instead of +5%).
+I marked you as a collaborator so you can help if you want. But first I'm going to make the code a little cleaner, up until now I was just trying to get something to work, but I can do better than this (I'm currently reading "Clean Code" by Robert Martin which has some really nice insights, I can recommend it).
-Regarding the colors: '''<span style="color:red;">I </span><span style="color:orange;">t</span><span style="color:yellow;">h</span><span style="color:green;">i</span><span style="color:blue;">n</span><span style="color:indigo;">k </span><span style="color:violet;">a</span><span style="color:red;">d</span><span style="color:orange;">d</span><span style="color:yellow;">i</span><span style="color:green;">n</span><span style="color:blue;">g </span><span style="color:indigo;">o</span><span style="color:violet;">t</span><span style="color:red;">h</span><span style="color:orange;">e</span><span style="color:yellow;">r </span><span style="color:green;">c</span><span style="color:blue;">o</span><span style="color:indigo;">l</span><span style="color:violet;">o</span><span style="color:red;">r</span><span style="color:orange;">s </span><span style="color:yellow;">w</span><span style="color:green;">i</span><span style="color:blue;">l</span><span style="color:indigo;">l </span><span style="color:violet;">b</span><span style="color:red;">e </span><span style="color:orange;">a</span><span style="color:yellow;">n </span><span style="color:green;">e</span><span style="color:blue;">y</span><span style="color:indigo;">e</span><span style="color:violet;">s</span><span style="color:red;">o</span><span style="color:orange;">r</span><span style="color:yellow;">e</span>. <span style="color:green;">I </span><span style="color:blue;">p</span><span style="color:indigo;">i</span><span style="color:violet;">c</span><span style="color:red;">k</span><span style="color:orange;">e</span><span style="color:yellow;">d </span><span style="color:green;">b</span><span style="color:blue;">l</span><span style="color:indigo;">u</span><span style="color:violet;">e </span><span style="color:red;">b</span><span style="color:orange;">e</span><span style="color:yellow;">c</span><span style="color:green;">a</span><span style="color:blue;">u</span><span style="color:indigo;">s</span><span style="color:violet;">e </span><span style="color:red;">i</span><span style="color:orange;">t </span><span style="color:yellow;">b</span><span style="color:green;">l</span><span style="color:blue;">e</span><span style="color:indigo;">n</span><span style="color:violet;">d</span><span style="color:red;">s </span><span style="color:orange;">i</span><span style="color:yellow;">n </span><span style="color:green;">w</span><span style="color:blue;">e</span><span style="color:indigo;">l</span><span style="color:violet;">l </span><span style="color:red;">w</span><span style="color:orange;">i</span><span style="color:yellow;">t</span><span style="color:green;">h </span><span style="color:blue;">t</span><span style="color:indigo;">h</span><span style="color:violet;">e </span><span style="color:red;">b</span><span style="color:orange;">a</span><span style="color:yellow;">c</span><span style="color:green;">k</span><span style="color:blue;">g</span><span style="color:indigo;">r</span><span style="color:violet;">o</span><span style="color:red;">u</span><span style="color:orange;">n</span><span style="color:yellow;">d </span><span style="color:green;">a</span><span style="color:blue;">n</span><span style="color:indigo;">d </span><span style="color:violet;">i</span><span style="color:red;">t</span>'<span style="color:orange;">s </span><span style="color:yellow;">n</span><span style="color:green;">o</span><span style="color:blue;">t </span><span style="color:indigo;">t</span><span style="color:violet;">o</span><span style="color:red;">o </span><span style="color:orange;">e</span><span style="color:yellow;">m</span><span style="color:green;">p</span><span style="color:blue;">h</span><span style="color:indigo;">a</span><span style="color:violet;">t</span><span style="color:red;">i</span><span style="color:orange;">c</span>, <span style="color:yellow;">b</span><span style="color:green;">u</span><span style="color:blue;">t </span><span style="color:indigo;">i</span><span style="color:violet;">f </span><span style="color:red;">w</span><span style="color:orange;">e </span><span style="color:yellow;">h</span><span style="color:green;">a</span><span style="color:blue;">d </span><span style="color:indigo;">g</span><span style="color:violet;">r</span><span style="color:red;">e</span><span style="color:orange;">e</span><span style="color:yellow;">n </span><span style="color:green;">f</span><span style="color:blue;">o</span><span style="color:indigo;">r </span><span style="color:violet;">e</span><span style="color:red;">a</span><span style="color:orange;">r</span><span style="color:yellow;">t</span><span style="color:green;">h </span><span style="color:blue;">a</span><span style="color:indigo;">n</span><span style="color:violet;">d </span><span style="color:red;">r</span><span style="color:orange;">e</span><span style="color:yellow;">d </span><span style="color:green;">f</span><span style="color:blue;">o</span><span style="color:indigo;">r </span><span style="color:violet;">f</span><span style="color:red;">i</span><span style="color:orange;">r</span><span style="color:yellow;">e</span>, <span style="color:green;">i</span><span style="color:blue;">t </span><span style="color:indigo;">w</span><span style="color:violet;">o</span><span style="color:red;">u</span><span style="color:orange;">l</span><span style="color:yellow;">d </span><span style="color:green;">d</span><span style="color:blue;">i</span><span style="color:indigo;">s</span><span style="color:violet;">t</span><span style="color:red;">r</span><span style="color:orange;">a</span><span style="color:yellow;">c</span><span style="color:green;">t </span><span style="color:blue;">t</span><span style="color:indigo;">h</span><span style="color:violet;">e </span><span style="color:red;">u</span><span style="color:orange;">s</span><span style="color:yellow;">e</span><span style="color:green;">r </span><span style="color:blue;">f</span><span style="color:indigo;">r</span><span style="color:violet;">o</span><span style="color:red;">m </span><span style="color:orange;">t</span><span style="color:yellow;">h</span><span style="color:green;">e </span><span style="color:blue;">o</span><span style="color:indigo;">t</span><span style="color:violet;">h</span><span style="color:red;">e</span><span style="color:orange;">r </span><span style="color:yellow;">c</span><span style="color:green;">o</span><span style="color:blue;">n</span><span style="color:indigo;">t</span><span style="color:violet;">e</span><span style="color:red;">n</span><span style="color:orange;">t </span><span style="color:yellow;">a</span><span style="color:green;">n</span><span style="color:blue;">d</span>/<span style="color:indigo;">o</span><span style="color:violet;">r </span><span style="color:red;">j</span><span style="color:orange;">u</span><span style="color:yellow;">s</span><span style="color:green;">t </span><span style="color:blue;">g</span><span style="color:indigo;">e</span><span style="color:violet;">n</span><span style="color:red;">e</span><span style="color:orange;">r</span><span style="color:yellow;">a</span><span style="color:green;">l</span><span style="color:blue;">l</span><span style="color:indigo;">y </span><span style="color:violet;">f</span><span style="color:red;">e</span><span style="color:orange;">e</span><span style="color:yellow;">l </span><span style="color:green;">o</span><span style="color:blue;">u</span><span style="color:indigo;">t </span><span style="color:violet;">o</span><span style="color:red;">f </span><span style="color:orange;">p</span><span style="color:yellow;">l</span><span style="color:green;">a</span><span style="color:blue;">c</span><span style="color:indigo;">e</span>.''' You can try experimenting with colors if you want but I don't think it's a good idea.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:12, February 22, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+== Reachable / Unreachable - Debug Tiles? ==
-@Hunter
+With the recent updates to the tibia-maps project, a few reachable/unreachable tiles were uncovered by Svargrond arena. I am guessing these tiles are related by some functional purpose, but what is it? Can they be reached or were they just temporary teleportation tiles while the debugging process was active; and if they cannot be reached, do they still exist? (If so, why?)
-A "whisker box"-type of thing would be really cool but probably a lot less understood than the current graph. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:31, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+If they are related for some reason and still exist today, then surely other related game functions (seems to be time-based events?) have their own as well.
-@Wouterboy
+Here are some other boss rooms that have candidate tiles (or maybe not):
-Thanks. Those pages are meant to have article/actualname/plural but the "look" template is supposed to guess when it isn't provided. I'll fix that tomorrow probably.
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#33259,31689,15:3 ([[Stonecracker]])
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#33070,31039,12:2 ([[Zanakeph]]?)
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#32039,31741,8:4 ([[The Collector]])
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#32957,31046,8:2 ([[Flameborn]]?)
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#33243,31611,11:2 (?)
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#32051,31249,11:2 ([[Bretzecutioner]])
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#32030,32555,15:2 ([[Kerberos]])
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#33395,31546,10:3 ([[Feroxa]]? Wait, is this right? Can't you levitate up there?)
+** Some other candidate tiles in that area too.
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32157,31058,7:2 Svargrond arena]
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#33082,31855,12:3 Bigfoot's Burden]
+** You reach this one if, for some reason, teleporting to [[Abyssador]]'s room is impossible. It did this on Test Server for an unknown reason, that's why we have these maps. This tile kicked anyone on it offline, and moved them to the temple at next login.
+* (none visible for [[The Many]], [[The Noxious Spawn]] or [[Gorgo]])
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:31, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:14, May 23, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+I've noticed similar tiles on [[Duelling Arena|PvP]] and [[Monster Arena|PvE arenas]], like [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Mapper?coords=126.0-125.141-12-4-1-1 here], [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Mapper?coords=126.0-125.205-12-4-1-1 here], [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Mapper?coords=126.0-125.201-9-4-1-1 here], [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32704,31817,13:2 here] and [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32768,31821,13:2 here].
-Concerning item articles and actual names, did you use the list of limited items to automatically add those parameters?
+The tiles you mentioned in Svargrond arena have always been there and Cip never tried to hide them on the maps published to promoted/supported fansites (check the early versions of [[:File:Minimap Floor 7.png]]).
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 14:00, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
-----
+Here's a "screenshot" of Svargrond arena's ''secret'' tiles:<br />
-I haven't added article/actualname/plural to any items yet. According to [[TibiaWiki:Data/Item/article]] the only item to have <code>article</code> is [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/?curid=5005 Panda Teddy]. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:07, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+[[File:Svargrond arena secret tiles.png|300px]]
-----
-Sixorish, why is the '''effect''' parameter not included on Spell pages? Just a mistake or an idea? Maybe colored resistance bars are not so good, but something with those icons maybe? What about this: [[User:Bennie/resistances]]?
+I believe characters are either teleported there in order to trigger the arena/boss event (making monster spawn, starting timers) or when the time is over (before being teleported somewhere else).
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:24, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
-----
+Other places:
-Looks good Bennie, do you want to add it?
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#33256,32397,12:2 Koshei the Deathless]
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32148,32314,8:2 Under Calcanea] (related to [[A Pirate's Death to Me]]?)
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32255,31837,10:2 Under Ghostlands] (related to [[The Queen of the Banshees Quest]]?)
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#33486,32332,14:2 ??]
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 14:59, May 23, 2017 (UTC)
-Also how is the background/border of the tabular data? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:29, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Yes, they are used to trigger the spawning of certain creatures or to effectuate changes to the environment. I remember a post on the forums some time ago by someone who had figured out that the separate stages of the orcish raid on [[Zzaion]] are triggered by rats spawning on top of such switchplates. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 02:21, May 24, 2017 (UTC)
-Ok, I [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Creature_Resistance_Table?curid=71314&diff=595534&oldid=595491 added it]. The border looks cool, the background color is too dark to comfortably read black text. A little lighter and then it'll be awesome.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:42, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+== BattlEye integration ==
-----
-Are you guys aware of any monster that has a life drain damage modifier different from +0% and -100%? Some creatures used to be immune to life drain even before the implementation of damage modifiers. I wonder if they have really changed it or if it's still an immune or not-immune case.
+Should we change [[Template:Infobox World]] to add a boolean field to represent whether or not servers are protected by BattlEye? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 05:22, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 14:55, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
------
-NPC image on [[The Queen Of The Banshees]] (longest name I can think of) doesn't fit. #twbox-image max-width 64px can be removed to fix, but might push the title too much to the right. NPC images are kind of irregular because the names make the image dimensions non-standard.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 15:17, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Well, it depends. Won't all worlds get BE protection in a few months? Your suggestion would only make sense if for an extended period of time only a part of the servers are BE protected.
-I've removed the max-width/height from #twbox-image and added it to a.new descendents. I mostly wanted to limit the effects of missing orange image links to a 64x64px box. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:28, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:34, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Seeing how CIpsoft makes those changes, I think it's a good idea to have BattlEye column, if they keep activating it on few by few worlds, people will get lost eventualy, so even if it has to be reversed in near(half a year, year?) future, it could be pretty useful for now.
-Thanks. Another question, see [[Lou Toose]]. If buysell is set to no, the div id=npc-trades should not be displayed, right? But here it does.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 15:40, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 09:39, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+I had the same idea some days ago when I was editing a few game world pages. Go ahead, Six! :)
-Actually it is meant to be displayed, except NPCs who don't buy/sell anything should have "--" as their buy/sell. I wanted to be very clear and say: no there isn't missing information, this NPC ''really'' doesn't buy or sell anything. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:47, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-I added a very small script to common.js which will sort the creature resistances from highest to lowest when the document is loaded. Is this better? I didn't want to at first because I was afraid the random positioning would be awkward. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 02:29, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-I don't think the sorting is really needed, with no sorting viewers can get used to always see fire as 4th bar for example. With sorting you'll always look at the top bar and then look which element it is.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 12:53, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
-I do like the ideas proposed [http://forum.tibia.com/forum/?action=thread&threadid=4325267&pagenumber=2 on tibia.com] by Olixin but also Waverly, to have the resistance bars go left or right from a fixed point, denoting weak or strong. I still sometimes confuse if + or - is weak or strong, having this left or right by default would be useful. What do you think?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:59, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+For the moment, CipSoft is experimenting with the cost-effectiveness of rolling out BattlEye. This means that any number of game worlds could have BattlEye enabled or disabled throughout the next few months. As such, I've added support for a parameter 'battleye' which can be removed if BattlEye becomes global. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:49, June 8, 2017 (UTC)
-I think there are a few issues with this:
-* I think the bar being far from its label will cause readability issues.
-* In such a graph we would still need to label which side is strong and which side is weak. This is why I prefer "absolute" percentages like 105% over relative percentages like +5%. If the main reason for preferring the outward-moving graph is because it's intuitive then it will be no more intuitive than if we colored bars red/green (for 99%- and 100%+) because that's the only "intuitive" feature of the graph.
-* Strong to is bound to 100% (immune at 100% resistance) while weak to is unbound. Since we work in a limited space we would use percentages to determine where the center (0) is. I don't think it will be intuitive at all if 0 is not near the center as it would be for many stronger creatures.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:34, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Yes, looks good!
-Mm okay. One other thing [[Creature Artwork]]s are removed from the creature infobox. I kinda liked them, can they come back?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 13:53, January 23, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:39, June 8, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Good job, Six!
-I'll work out a place we can put it. I think it will go nicely in the notes next to the tibia.com description of pages. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 07:25, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 17:48, June 8, 2017 (UTC)
+== Double Loot ==
+Should we revert all Loot Statistics uploaded during the {{OfficialNewsArchive|4115|double loot weekend}}?
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 19:29, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Or maybe just replace the page with an explaining text during that week?
-Ok cool. Some stuff:
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:41, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
-*droppedby is literally included with 3 curly brackets if empty, e.g. [[Fireball Rune]]
-*The related items section lists give a dpl warning if no results are found (noresultsheader could be filled)
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 22:18, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
-Is there a way you could add some 'special' u-words to the template to be recognised as needing the 'a' as article (for items such as [[Used Candelabrum]] and [[Unity Charm]])? The template isn't doing this yet, I noticed. Also, do all plurals need to be supplied manually? -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 10:52, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
+One problem is that people may record loot statistics for weeks and only upload them when they have a lot. To minimise this we should, in addition to one of the other solutions, issue a notice to avoid the collection of loot until the period ends. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 06:13, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Agreed. Can any of you (or someone else) do those things? I'm just too busy now. Thanks.
-This information is stored on the item pages now, it's easier that way. I had [[User:SixBot]] add article, actualname and plural params to the item pages automatically, using educated guesses as to their value (except plural which I didn't set yet, because I'm not sure how the plurals should work). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 11:18, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 14:14, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+maybe we are going about this the wrong way, maybe we should double the amount of kills uploaded during double loot?
-Re: concept art - what is the plan if in the future a creature is depicted in multiple creature artworks? The old method tested if a certain filename existed which wouldn't work if there were multiple. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 17:24, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
+<br>
+[[User:Vapaus|Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]]) 16:21, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+We can't just double the amount of kills. We would need to do something with the maximum amount of each dropped item which would be increase after the upload. Also, it would decrease the ''no loot'' rate.
-We have a similar case with [[Yalaharian Outfits]]. There are 3 outfit cards for the same outfit. {{Template|Infobox Outfit}} makes we manually add artworks. But I don't think it's an elegant solution.
+I have some news! After the Winter Update, loot messages during double loot events should be similar to the ones when a double loot prey bonus is active. It means we will be able to filter them out automatically.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 23:41, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-I've receive some feedback online. Since the title above the resistance bars is ''Resistances'', they should be consistent: positive values meaning the creature is strong to that element, while negative values meaning it's weak to it. Either the title should be changed (to something like ''Element Modifiers'') or the bars should be changed. Also, to make it clearer, instead of displaying ''+##%'' and ''-##%'' it could display ''##% weak'' and ''##% strong''. ''0%'' could simply be displayed as ''Neutral'', and ''100% strong'' as ''Immune''.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 02:11, February 2, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:21, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
-----
-[[Updates/Pre-6.0]] in the items dpl list weight and droppedby are displayed as parameters for [[Barrel]] (which doesn't have a value for these parameters). I'm not sure how to fix this.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 13:58, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-It should now display nothing if the weight is not present. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 22:34, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
-== Outfiter ==
+== JSON API ==
+I've been working on a nice little project I'd like to share with you. The goal is to expose this wikis content in a JSON API, which other people or fansites can use (besides my wikiBot which can use this to read wiki articles, change things and write them back). I first wrote my code in Java, but to host the API on this wiki itself I thought it should run on the wiki. So I ported (part of) my code to lua. You can see a demo [[User:Bennie/Test|here]]. If you edit the page, you can change the word "Bear" to another creature you like and click on preview to see the result. Right now I only support Creatures, but ultimately all types will be supported.
-Hey!
+Next thing to look into is how to use query parameters to call the lua module, so you can get the JSON of a specific article by going to an url like: http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/User:Bennie/Test?article_name=bear
-Could you guys change ids of 3 mounts into names in Outfiter? I have seen it has been updated, but they remain untouched.
-I assume it would require only:
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 20:58, June 3, 2017 (UTC)
-Replacing 685 with Shadow_Hart, 686 with Black_Stag and 687 with Emperor_Deer
-in [[Outfiter/Code_Template]] & [[Outfiter/Code]]
-plus renaming pages/editing first lines(just id values) [[Outfiter/Mount/685|here - 685]], [[Outfiter/Mount/686|here - 686]] and [[Outfiter/Mount/687|here - 687]].
---[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 15:48, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Holy crap, this looks so amazing. I didn't know we could have such things due to security issues.
-I renamed the 3 pages but not sure if deleting and creating them fresh is necessary or not. They are not loading in the 3 browsers i tried, but that happened last time i added an outfit so we shall see when the server catches up. --[[User:DM|DM]] ><((°> [[Special:Contributions/DM|Contribs]] <°))>< [[User_talk:DM|talk to me]] 03:32, January 23, 2015 (UTC)
+However, does your lua script perform the parsing itself? There will be a ton of issues when dealing with "edge cases" if you parse it yourself. Like this:
+:<nowiki>{{ Infobox Creature</nowiki> (space has no meaning here)
+or this:
+:<nowiki>{{{{{1|Infobox Creature}}}</nowiki> (don't think we use this, but it's possible).
+If there's a library script that actually invokes the preprocessor to generate a parse tree, this would be perfect. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 07:37, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Yeah, it is pretty cool. I found out the MediaWiki API can also give back parsed pages, so you could perform a GET on [http://tibia.wikia.com/api.php?action=parse&page=User:Bennie/Test&format=xml&prop=text this page].
-It seems to be working correctly now, thanks a lot! -- [[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 15:41, January 23, 2015 (UTC)
-----
+Sixorish, how did you make your API, you didn't use the MediaWiki API, did you? It would be useful if one could access a certain wiki page and only get json in return, to really have a REST endpoint.
-Note that the id on each page had to be changed from the number to the name (e.g. 686 > Black_Stag), as done by [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Outfiter/Mount/Black_Stag?curid=70207&action=history Sixorish]. --[[User:DM|DM]] ><((°> [[Special:Contributions/DM|Contribs]] <°))>< [[User_talk:DM|talk to me]] 17:23, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
+The lua script does perform the parsing, indeed. Those edge cases will break it, it's not very robust unfortunately. I have no idea what you mean with preprocessor and parse tree, can you explain? I thought it is most logical to base the json on the raw wikitext.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:31, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+I mean to say that it would be so much better to have the MediaWiki engine process a page and give you a structured representation of the data. It's a bit silly to rewrite the MediaWiki parser to interpret wikitext correctly.
-Hey, I know, I did mention that in my first message about it, it's right after renaming the pages. -- [[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 18:01, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
+My "API" was based on the MediaWiki API. You can generate page contents from the API in batches of 400-500(?), which is super useful for bots. I'm guessing the lua is based on the API as well.
-== [[Updates/8.54]] ==
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:36, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
-Can you guys check what's wrong with [[Updates/8.54]]? On Monobook, the logo is misplaced and there's that "Node-count limit exceeded" error. On Wikia skin, it doesn't even load after last edit.
+== Clickable Images Triggering Creature Ranks ==
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 15:00, January 23, 2015 (UTC)
+I just made a test with clickable images in DPL lists on [[List of Creatures by Experience to Hit Points Ratio]]. Unfortunately, [[TibiaWiki:Styles/Creature Ranks.css|Creature Ranks]] are triggered by clickable images. Does anyone know a way to circumvent this?
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 03:09, August 5, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Just that I understand you, you want to keep the golden star left of the word Abyssador, but not have a golden star appear left of the clickable image of Abyssador?
-Um, I didn't think this would cause a problem. Apparently the new templates on our pages ([[Template:Dropped By]] and [[Template:Loot Table]]) are adding a lot of preprocessor nodes and it stops expanding templates when that limit has been exceeded... I'll have a look at it tomorrow. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 16:30, January 23, 2015 (UTC)
+You'll have to add a new CSS rule to [[MediaWiki:Custom_Scripts/Creature_Ranks/Creature_Ranks.css]] where you exclude the behaviour when there is an img tag inside an hyperlink tag, when [https://www.w3.org/wiki/CSS/Selectors/combinators/child direct child].
+Let me know if you need help with that!
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:29, September 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Actually, it seems you need a parent selector for this, which is not supported by CSS yet. For now the only solution would be to use javascript.
-I'm honestly confused here. On [[User:Sixorish/bottleneck/items]] I tested this and the current revision "fixes" the problem by changing how DPL collects the data. If you use a phantom template ([[Template:Infobox Item/Update]]) it adds almost no preprocessor nodes whereas if you instruct DPL to get the data itself using [[Template:DPLPARM Item.include]] it uses more than the server can handle. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 06:08, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:13, September 17, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+{{Done}} Sorted. I don't know if we need to have that peer reviewed? @Bennie we get around this by exploiting the fact that those images have classes that links don't (.image.image-thumbnail) in order to reset the :before attributes.
-I've applied the changes to the DPL parameter templates for items. The page limits are now at:
-<pre><nowiki><!--
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:42, September 17, 2017 (UTC)
-NewPP limit report
-Preprocessor node count: 32543/300000
-Post‐expand include size: 140941/2097152 bytes
-Template argument size: 34845/2097152 bytes
-Expensive parser function count: 0/100
---></nowiki></pre>
-However, this update page takes a lot of time to render. Not sure if it was like that before. It might just be because that update introduced a lot of things. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 07:28, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Smart. Stupid of me to oversee this simple solution. I don't see a review button which javascript pages like [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] have. It doesn't load for me yet, but this may be a caching issue.
-Mm, it is fast enough for me. Btw, the arena bosses (and probably all creatures with no loot have an empty [[Template:Loot Table]] in their loot parameter. E.g. [[Menace]]. Maybe fill it with two dashes and display "No loot." or something instead?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:51, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 15:01, September 17, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Nice job, Six!
-It's fast when rendering after it's been cached. But update pages are meant to be edited a lot (mostly before/shortly after they're released) so I'd like to think performance when editing is a big deal. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 11:07, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 18:48, September 18, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
-As for the "No loot." thing, I will add a message for the time being. In the future I'd like to code something to make adding loot easier: a JS-based loot adder/remover which is why I wanted all creatures to have {{Template|Loot Table}}. But for the time being we have other things to work on. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 11:12, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
+Is it working? I tested this in the console and it seems to work, but the server isn't updating its CSS. Maybe the CSS doesn't get regenerated until some code review is passed? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:40, September 20, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+It is not working yet. Shouldn't [[TibiaWiki:Styles/Creature Ranks.css]] be edited too?
-The same error is happening on [[List of Creatures]].
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 23:39, January 28, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 19:36, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+I thought the TibiaWiki css page was replaced with the MediaWiki css page, since Wikia wants custom js and css inclusions only from "trusted" places. But I don't know how the inclusion system actually works. It's not as if there is an import statement in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]].
-[[Rookgaard]] has also been affected by the template changes.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 20:28, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
+----
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 23:26, February 1, 2015 (UTC)
+@Hunter: You're right, the MediaWiki: CSS page isn't actually being used, the TibiaWiki:Styles/... page needed to be updated. Cheers, -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:59, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+If you are sure, can you delete the unused one?
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 18:36, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
-Okay I'm stupid. The dropped by template transcludes all the creatures on that list for no reason, so instead of fixing the problem (which I thought was a limit we just had to deal with) the problem can be solved by removing that transclusion, since it only uses the creature's name. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 06:10, February 2, 2015 (UTC)
-== [[TibiaWiki:Data]] ==
+== Items/Objects sold on the Store and their price ==
-Hi guys,
+I noticed that there's a general lack of information on item's articles regarding to [[Store]] availability. For example, if you go on [[Mana Potion]] there's no mention that you can buy them on the Store, this information is only available on the Store's page. Same thing applies to Runes, some House Equipment, etc.
-Does anyone here have any interest in using [[TibiaWiki:Data]]?
+There's also a problem when it comes to the TC prices. For example, the [[Brocade Tapestry]] says '''''Bought for''' 50 Tibia Coins gp''. Some types such as objects (e.g. [[Mana Cask]]) and outfits also don't have a ''price'' parameter, which means it's not possible to add this information to their articles using a parameter. On the other hand, [[Template:Infobox Mount]] has a ''price'' parameter that works very well.
-These pages contain static data from our templates and is updated by [[User:SixBot]]. I've also added a tabular version which can be found by appending "/table" to page names (I may not update the tabular versions as often because it takes a bit longer).
+Finally there's the issue of having bundles of items available with different amounts and price, like 125x Mana Potions for 5 TC and 300x Mana Potions for 10 TC. Considering all this I had an idea which I'm not sure could be implemented:
-These pages could be used for fast verification of the validity of our pages, for example I found and fixed [http://tibia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Black_Knight_Doll&diff=599416&oldid=596424 this problem] after checking the data.
+A ''storeprices'' parameter would be added to the templates of types that include store products (Item, Outfit, Object, ?). This could be just a value for 1x items, but it wouldn't work for bundles, so perhaps new templates would be useful as its value. Something like:
-Basically it's a quicker way to check the values of a lot of parameters. Each page contains data for 1 parameter (I don't think people want to download the entire wiki's data for just 2 pieces of info).
+<pre>
-Here are some data pages for example:
+{{Store Price
-* [[TibiaWiki:Data/Item/npcvalue]], and [[TibiaWiki:Data/Item/npcvalue/table|/table]].
+ |{{Store Bundle|amount|price}}
-* [[TibiaWiki:Data/Item/sellto]], and [[TibiaWiki:Data/Item/sellto/table|/table]].
+ |{{Store Bundle|amount|price}}
+}}</pre>
+For example:
-This combination of data could be used for [[Calculators#Loot]], currently it uses a parsed version of a DPL list which is time-consuming to update. Of course it has applications. But does anyone actually have an interest in using it? If so then I can write some help pages & add the script to get this data to Common.js. Since I'll be studying in February I won't have a lot of time to use it myself, so, if nobody else wants to use it I just won't update it. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:55, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-I don't think I'll use that in the near future, but the possibility looks promising! Good luck with your studying ;)
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 12:07, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-It seems promising, indeed.
+<pre>{{Store Price
-By the way, have you guys noticed that [[Calculators#Armor]] isn't working properly?
+ |{{Store Bundle|125|5}}
+ |{{Store Bundle|300|10}}
+}}</pre>
+This should translate into something like this:
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 00:26, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-Hm, I thought it was just the images but the whole thing is broken. Well, I fixed the images which was bugged because of a Wikia change to image URLs, and I'll look at the rest of it when I have some more time. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 02:54, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
+http://i.imgur.com/eDKp5Ql.png
-== More bot edits ==
+What do you guys think? I'm sorry if it has been discussed before but I didn't see any mention on the archives. If you want I can offer to try creating the templates (I'd just need to read how to do it and where to test it), and of course update the pages after implementation.
-SixBot is currently editing every item page with a single <code>itemid</code> to add the following parameters:
-*<code>sprites</code>
-*<code>holdsliquid</code> (if fluid container)
-*<code>immobile</code> (if immobile)
-*<code>hangable</code> (if hangable)
-*<code>unshootable</code> (if blocks missiles)
-*<code>blockspath</code> (if blocks path)
-*<code>walkable</code> (if walkable)
-*<code>usable</code> (if usable)
-*<code>rotatable</code> (if rotatable)
-*<code>mapcolor</code> (if has map color)
-He will also check and fix anything else that is verifiable on the dat, like stackable and lightcolor/radius.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:46, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-Due to a bug SixBot wasn't adding or fixing some parameters, like usable. I've also added some checks, e.g. SixBot will remove hangable if it is not hangable, remove volume if it is not a container, and others. He'll also be adding a new parameter, <code>marketable</code>, to all items. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:00, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-Had to stop SixBot to check out a possible bug.
-* [[Scroll]] has the wrong itemid. (should be 2815)
-Will resume editing and fix this one later. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:10, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 14:19, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Thanks for pointing it out! I added parameters related to Store prices to [[Template:Infobox Outfit]]. I also added a parameter for achievement.
-Yeah, 347 is [[Scroll (TBI)]]'s ID.
+Someone still has to add Store prices parameters to [[Template:Infobox Item]].
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 13:19, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
-----
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:23, August 24, 2017 (UTC)
-Updating Data/Item/* and rerunning the script to fix some bugs that occurred before.
-* Readable is gone. Writable (wiki) = readable (dat reader), rewritable (wiki) = writable (dat reader), I didn't realize this.
-* Fixing errors caused by assuming readable, writable and rewritable were separate.
-* Anything else that the bot picks up that it missed before.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:47, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Problem is, the Store-bought potions might need their very own pages. They don't stack with the regular shop-bought potions and have a flavourtext (as opposed to their shop-bought counterparts). However (to make things more complicated), putting either type of potion under a hotkey ''will'' make that hotkey work for both types... -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 14:22, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
-What an odd word "marketable", I didn't know it really existed. But it's cool you're adding it, I would be interested in a list of items which can't be traded on the market.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:13, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Thanks Hunter, I see that you also updated all pages already, nice!
-Marketable means something other than what we're using for, but it's understandable. If we decide something else is better it can be changed, but for now, no reason to stall edits just because something may not be perfect.
+The Store potions and runes thing is indeed problematic. But I have the impression they are the same item (.dat wise), with maybe one attribute that gives items from the Store specific properties.
-I think I am done with mass edits for the time being. Here are some things I'd like to do in the future though:
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 18:29, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
-* Order parameters within the source of pages (there are a lot of new parameters).
-* Merge items and objects.
-* Fix any inconsistent parameter spacing.
-* Create rules for parameters, e.g. ''armor'' can only be a number, and generate regular reports of invalid parameters so that we can find potential issues.
-* Upload files with "Item ID x.gif" for all item IDs, as a reference to upload a file under ''Item Name''.gif
+== Update Minimap Floor Files ==
-I will run the script maybe once a week or on request to update any info with changes/added IDs. So, if you go looking for IDs, feel free to save time by ignoring things that can be obtained from the dat.
+The Minimap files are protected pages, I assume because they were used by the mapper and hence very sensitive. Now they are used just in the miniature map on NPC pages. They haven't been updated in a while, which leads to NPCs being displayed on the ocean, e.g. [[Valindara]]. Could someone please unprotect these files or update the images? Files are:
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:47, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
+[[:File:Minimap Floor 0.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 1.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 2.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 3.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 4.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 5.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 6.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 7.png]],
-== Creature Descriptions ==
+[[:File:Minimap Floor 8.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 9.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 10.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 11.png]],
+[[:File:Minimap Floor 12.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 13.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 14.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 15.png]]
+The optimal solution would be making [[:Template:Minimap]] work with the tibiamaps files, but that doesn't seem to be an easy thing to do.
-'''Errors:'''
-* ...
-Hi,
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 18:07, September 4, 2017 (UTC)
-I will add creature descriptions to our pages taken from tibia.com; however, since they don't have the same naming conventions as we do for the website, there are likely to be a few errors in my automatic guesses. I would appreciate if anyone could [[User:Sixorish/Creature_Descriptions|scan the list]] for errors. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 10:32, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+I sent an email to Mathias last night asking him to update our Mapper files, but I don't know when he will have time for this.
-I... I don't really know what you mean. I hope this is helpful:
+If you can, Molx, you can use the TibiaMaps PNG files found [https://github.com/tibiamaps/tibia-map-data here] to create the new versions of the files you mentioned. Please, follow the same standards (centering and dimensions / water margins). Oh, and don't forget [[:File:Minimap Floor 7h.png]]. :-)
-'''Errors:'''
-* cultacolyte (instead of 'acolyteofthecult');
-* frogazure (instead of 'azurefrog');
-* wraith (instead of 'betrayedwraith');
-* butterflypurple (instead of 'butterflies');
-* charlatan (instead of 'corymcharlatan');
-* skirmisher (instead of 'corymskirmisher');
-* vanguard (instead of 'corymvanguard');
-* cultpriest (instead of 'enlightenedofthecult');
-* lostdwarfbasher (instead of 'lostbasher');
-* lostdwarfhusher (instead of 'losthusher');
-* earthelementalmassive (instead of 'massiveearthelemental');
-* energyelementalmassive (instead of 'massiveenergyelemental');
-* hellfireelemental (instead of 'massivefireelemental');
-* waterelementalmassive (instead of 'massivewaterelemental');
-* cultadept (instead of 'adeptofthecult');
-* cultnovice (instead of 'noviceofthecult');
-* seacrest (instead of 'seacrestserpent');
-* viscountmanbat (instead of 'viciousmanbat');
-* wormpriest (instead of 'wormpriestess').
+Once you have the files, I will unprotect them, then you can upload the new versions and I will protect them again.
-Also:
-* In the list of butterflies in the first column the [[Butterfly (Purple)]] is excluded.
+Edit: Mathias told me he is going to do it over the weekend.
-* The [[Novice of the Cult]] is listed twice (the first time followed by 'cultadept', and the second time by 'cultnovice'.
-* Perhaps change 'Enraged Crystal Golems' in the second column to 'Crystal Golems'?
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:44, September 13, 2017 (UTC)
-* The plural of 'Enlightened of the Cult' should simply be 'Enlightened of the Cult'.
 ----
+I didn't read the edit until it was too late, haha. If you want I can upload them. There is an excessive empty space on the bottom of these images, not sure why. Nevertheless, I kept the same sizes, as requested. If it works as expected you can tell Mathias not to worry about it. :)
-Sorry I guess that is a little confusing.
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 20:23, September 14, 2017 (UTC)
-* The errors you listed are not errors, that's the name of the "race" you would put in tibia.com to get their profile, e.g. [http://www.tibia.com/library/?subtopic=creatures&race=cultacolyte http://www.tibia.com/library/?subtopic=creatures&race='''cultacolyte''']. Nothing will be changed in that column because that column is just the name for linking purposes.
-Others:
-* Fixed.
-* Novices being listed twice is indeed an error, thanks.
-* This is the title [http://www.tibia.com/library/?subtopic=creatures&race=crystalgolem according to tibia.com]. In the past I think it was ''Crystal Golems'' but it was changed.
-* This is also the title [http://www.tibia.com/library/?subtopic=creatures&race=cultpriest according to tibia.com], so it should be consistent.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:24, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Done, all users are allowed to upload new versions of those files for now.
-Ahh, alright. I thought the idea was to have the names in the Race URL column updated so they reflect how the wiki names the creatures. On another note, are you sure we should list [[Damaged Crystal Golem]] as a creature fitting the description of [[Enraged Crystal Golem]]? Most of that description can be applied to the Enraged ones only. Also, I think that if we take over 'Enlighteneds of the Cult' as our plural, we will look very unprofessional. Cipsoft took it a little too far by pluralising an adjective (seriously Cip?). Anyway, for some reason they use correct plurals in the actual description, but in the two stats paragraphs they don't. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 12:44, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
+Edit: The reason for the ''excessive empty space'' can be explained by checking [[Template:Minimap]]. After exploring new areas from a certain update, there was at least one <code>1##129##.map</code> file i.e Y = 129 (not on the ground floor, as you can see), that's why we needed to change the Mapper files dimensions.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:14, September 14, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
-Maybe you're right about the crystal golems.
+Done, thanks! - [[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 02:16, September 15, 2017 (UTC)
-It can be changed on our part if we desire it, but does it affect ''our'' professional image or CipSoft's? As said, this will ''only'' be used to display: "&mdash;[http://www.tibia.com/library/?subtopic=creatures&race=cultpriest Tibia Website - Enlighteneds Of The Cult]". Most likely CipSoft will fix it sooner or later. If it is preferred we can just have our plurals displayed and not worry about adding a parameter for the "bestiary title". -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:01, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
+== Social engagement ==
+It looks like Facebook has failed as a platform for social engagement. I would propose three reasons for this:
+* TibiaWiki is a collaborative community. It's not a social network.
+* It's too formal to send a message to the TibiaWiki administrators via Facebook.
+* We don't regularly create content that is worthy of publishing to Facebook.
+What we need, I think, is something less formal and more communal than Facebook pages offer. Discord is probably the best bet, because it's a platform for gamers to chat amongst each other. What I was thinking is that we could have channels to discuss different issues, e.g. some where players can discuss the issues they have with TibiaWiki, as well as suggest and ''collaboratively discuss'' how the wiki can be improved. The important distinction is that it must be casual, otherwise nobody will use it and it will fail just as our Facebook page has.
+I've wanted to post this for a while, because I think it's really important that ''something'' is done. The community's #1 priority must be to foster its continued growth, but my experience (of lurking the recent changes) is showing that the community is stagnating. I see the same people editing articles, and this is ''not'' sustainable.
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:09, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+i support this.
-I thought we would take over all of their plurals and therefore look unprofessional together with them, sorry. Now that I understand it correctly it sounds good (and yeah, I also don't see the necessity of adding a "bestiary title" parameter). -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 13:29, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
+<br>[[User:Vapaus|Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]]) 15:53, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+As an user who started contributing more actively just recently I think this is a good idea. It would be very good for Wiki if a new way to engage with the community was found. I'm not an avid Discord user but I would at least give it a try.
-I'll add them all to the creature pages shortly. [[Damaged Crystal Golem]] will not get one. This will introduce the parameters <code>bestiaryname</code> (''cultacolyte'') and <code>bestiarytext</code> (the description) to [[Template:Infobox Creature]], which will display the descriptions in a standardized way. Since the only opinion I've received was in favor of dropping the <code>bestiarytitle</code> parameter (''Acolytes Of The Cult'') they will not use that and prefer our ''plural'', ''actualname'' or ''name'' parameters. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:35, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 16:00, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Yes, I agree we should do something. Let's give Discord a try. Wikia tried to make a casual communication feature - [[Special:Chat]] - which failed because players need to have a Wikia account for that. We can also create threads in Reddit every now and then.
-Okay [[User:SixBot]] is adding the bestiary information. I made some changes so that the text doesn't consume too much space, because some pages, like [[Rot Elemental]] and [[Medusa]], have a lot of text and I think we shouldn't push the other content down too far. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:41, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:13, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Alright. I've created a server.
-Actually I've gone ahead and removed the "title" completely so that it just says "&mdash;Tibia Library". None of our parameters are good for referencing the Tibia library:
-* name can have disambiguation terms, e.g. [[Fish (Creature)]].
+Here's a link: https://discord.gg/Mqgz9Mz
-* actualname and plural are lowercase, which looks out of place.
-Tomorrow I will look at ordering our template parameters. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 16:05, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
+Anyone can join, admins will be granted a special role so that they can be identified. Admins will have a public and private chat. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 07:39, February 2, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
-I've just reported the "enlighteneds" case as well as the name "crystal golems" on Enraged Crystal Golems page. I don't think they would change URLs, so I won't report them.
+I have created [[TibiaWiki:Discord]], mainly to link it in the [[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation|navigation bar]], but also to provide a simple description of the server (please edit it if you want to expand or change something). If we want this to work we must do some sort of "advertising" or at least put it out there I guess. -- [[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 14:26, March 1, 2018 (UTC)
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 02:38, February 1, 2015 (UTC)
+== Status ==
-== Redirecting plurals to articles ==
+I am planning to edit all our infobox templates which use the "status" parameter, to let them display the corresponding template at the top of the page, depending on the value of this parameter. So if you put e.g. "status = deprecated" on an item page, it will automatically put the [[Template:Deprecated]] at the top of the page.
-Hi guys. I told Hunter to post here but he seems to be putting that off.
+Afterwards I will let my bot check all wiki pages and remove status-related templates from the top of the page and add the status parameter instead.
-Another fansite administrator would like for us to redirect plurals of creature names to that creature's page. So for example [[enlighteneds of the cult]] would redirect to [[Enlightened of the Cult]]. They want this so that they can link to us without having to create e.g. a table to translate kill statistics name -> wiki name.
+There might be some time when you see two templates at the top of the page, one added manually and one by the template, but hopefully this will be only the case for a short timespan.
-Are there any objections to this? Normally I would be against it simply because normal users may never use these redirects, but on the other hand it is unlikely that any other pages will take use the plural names.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:44, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+Go ahead, Bennie! It is good that you found some time to do this! :)
+As stated in my talk page, I believe there should be a distinction among
+# Content overwritten or removed from the game; and
+# Content made unobtainable (e.g items that expired).
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 18:08, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+I searched for "status" on your talk page but didn't exactly find what you mean. Can you elaborate? Anyways, if you want to add more statuses, you can simple add them in [[Template:Status Messagebox]], the code is easy to understand (I think).
+So I just went over all templates listed on [[TibiaWiki:Portable Infoboxes|this page]], added support everywhere except not on the following templates:
-If there are no objections I'll set up the redirects using [[User:SixBot]].
+*[[Template:Infobox Cipsoft Member]], their working time parameters kind of informs of their status.
+*[[Template:Infobox Fansite]], here "rank" is used to inform of their status.
+*<s>[[Template:Infobox Geography]], but maybe we should? Some areas are event-related (15th tibia anniversary? nostalgia?) and some areas are removed from the game at some point (tutorial island?), although this doesn't happen often.</s> (added support for [[Nostalgia]] status=deprecated).
+*[[Template:Infobox Hunt]], same as geography.
+*[[Template:Infobox Street]], same as geography.
+*[[Template:Infobox Update]], we don't use this template yet.
+Furthermore, note that for [[Template:Infobox World]], "ingamestatus" is used, which is empty or has the value ''deprecated''.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:07, March 11, 2015 (UTC)
+I will now start up the bot.
-Here are the pages that SixBot will edit if we agree to this: [[User:Sixorish/Redirects]]. On the bottom is a list of pages that '''won't''' be edited as they already contain articles: redirects or otherwise. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:11, March 11, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 18:42, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+I meant this (quoting myself from [[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes#Enchanted and Charged weapons]]):
-Agreed.
+''There is a difference between items that Cip decided to ''expire'' like [[Lottery Ticket (Blank)]], [[Trashed Draken Boots]] and the weapons in question, and items that were overwritten by different items like [[Amulet of Life]] and the [[Old Wands and Rods]]. In my opinion, there should be different categories and message boxes for them.''
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 12:22, March 11, 2015 (UTC)
+A message box for unobtainable content should be created and added to [[Template:Status Messagebox‎]].
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 19:11, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Ok, no problem. Maybe somebody should review the exact message on [[Template:Unobtainable]]. It could be reworded to make it more clear.
-Ok no problem, never any objections for fansites linking to us. Funny you use the [[Enlightened of the Cult]] example, with the "wrong" plural.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 12:29, March 11, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:22, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Re: wording -- Deprecated means "removed from the game". If we adopt another status, it should be as generic as possible, e.g. status=obsolete would imply that the entity in question is in the game files but not used. As it stands, all objects (as opposed to items) would be considered as unobtainable, hence the classification does not make any sense.
-Yeah I realized that when I was writing it. Decided to go with it because it conveys the idea well: the redirection doesn't depend on what the plural should be, just what the kill statistics calls them (because they are indexing kill stats and want to link to us without fixing plurals). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:56, March 11, 2015 (UTC)
+Re: task -- good job, this needed to be done. IMO the only things that should ever be on an item page is a template and a note at the top of the page for any disambiguation (I wouldn't be against putting that in the templates too). This makes it more consistent, readable and writable because our editors won't have to concern themselves with how to mark a page as deprecated (without, you know, breaking every single page that transcludes it).
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:08, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Good job, Bennie! It seems you missed some items with <code><nowiki>{{deprecated}}</nowiki></code> such as [[Old Wands and Rods]].
-I've done what I can automatically.
-*[[Amazons]]
+I agree with Sixorish that ''unobtainable'' is not the most suited word. ''Obsolete'', however, sounds like the page info might not be accurate even though we can keep it accurate if the obsolete item in question can be found in the Market. But I believe this would be an exception worth of reporting to Cip.
-*[[Bats]]
-*[[Bears]]
+What about TS-only entities that became obsolete vs. TS-only entities that became deprecated? Should we classify both of them as ''TS-only'' even when there is a clear difference between them?
-*[[Bonelords]]
-*[[Demons]]
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 10:35, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
-*[[Dogs]] (redirects to [[Canines]])
-*[[Dragons]]
+== Welcome, Molx! ==
-*[[Dwarfs]] (redirects to [[Dwarves]], not [[Dwarf]])
-*[[Eggs]] (redirects to [[Egg]], not [[Egg (Creature)]])
-*[[Elves]]
-*[[Fish]] (plural of [[Fish (Creature)]])
-*[[Ghosts]]
-*[[Goblins]]
-*[[Hydras]]
-*[[Minotaurs]]
-*[[Monks]]
-*[[Necromancers]]
-*[[Orcs]]
-*[[Pillars]]
-*[[Rabbits]] (redirects to [[Glires]])
-*[[Rats]] (redirects to [[Glires]])
-*[[Salamanders]]
-*[[Skeletons]]
-*[[Snakes]] (redirects to [[Serpents]])
-*[[Toads]] (redirects to [[Frogs]])
-*[[Tortoises]]
-*[[Trolls]]
-*[[Wolves]] (redirects to [[Canines]])
-*[[Wyrms]]
-*[[Wyverns]]
-These pages were '''not''' edited and do '''not''' redirect to the appropriate title, but all others do. I don't know what we should do about these. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:57, March 13, 2015 (UTC)
+I knew this had to happen some day. Welcome! -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 15:55, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Welcome, Lee! :)
-Thanks, Six. I'll talk with Sir Dzidek (Guildstats admin) about these cases, perhaps he can manually fix the links.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 03:46, March 15, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 16:03, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
+----
-== Vandalism Mar-2015 ==
+Thank you guys! I always liked giving back to the fansites that help us so much, and when I came back to Tibia this year I started to learn a little bit more about how TibiaWiki works and started to admire even more the great work so many people have done here (I mean, reading and writing the Wikia templates and DPL markup/code is harder than any programming language, haha).
+I'm looking forward to fix my own wrongly named pages! :P
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 16:51, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
-We have had some "heavy duty" vandalism recently. I remember reading that something was disabled for the contest we had in December but i cannot recall what was done. Does anyone remember and can they turn it back on/request Wikia to turn it back on? --[[User:DM|DM]] ><((°> [[Special:Contributions/DM|Contribs]] <°))>< [[User_talk:DM|talk to me]] 17:20, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Welcome Molx! We don't have an article on how to be an admin, but feel free to play around with all the new buttons and functionality you can now access. Most things can be undone :) On [[Special:Specialpages]] you'll see more pages you can access and [[TibiaWiki:Maintenance Project|this project]] lists some things you can do. And obviously, feel free to ask any questions!
-We allowed anniversary contestants to immediately upload a picture after account creation. Hunter has already requested this be reverted, however. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 17:32, March 23, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:13, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
-I just noticed when I made the new page "[[Nanny from Hell]]" when I created it. It did not give a warning message on top that you get when non-whitelisted people edit excisting wiki's (example: [[Updates/10.78]]). Maybe this could be used as a possible exploid by those hacker attempts. -- [[User:Tustanuxo|Tustanuxo]] ([[User talk:Tustanuxo|talk]]) 11:57, May 12, 2015 (UTC)
+Thank you Bennie. I was actually thinking if such article existed, and I'll play around with the new buttons and special pages. :)
-== Vandal:Brazoleq12 ==
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 16:21, November 23, 2017 (UTC)
-[[Image:Warning Icon Yellow.png|25px|left]] The user [[User:Brazoleq12|Brazoleq12]] (''<small>[[User_talk:Brazoleq12|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Brazoleq12|contribs]] &bull; [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions/{{urlencode:Brazoleq12}}|bot=1}} bot contribs] &bull; [{{fullurl:Special:Log|type=block&page=User:{{urlencode:Brazoleq12}}}} block log] &bull; [[Special:Blockip/Brazoleq12|block]]</small>'') has vandalized {{{{#if:notsubsted||subst:}}#if:League1|the page [[:League1]]|the wiki}}. Please review their edits and take appropriate actions if necessary.
+== Our Taxonomy ==
-Sincerely,<br />
-[[User:Cauli92]]
+'''1.''' I have recently finalised my reworking of our taxonomic system. This needed to be done for the following reasons:
-== Vandal: Yorickkk & Norbertino1 ==
+'''1.1''' ''Forced distinctions'': The current system includes several distinctions which are not really there. If B is a subspecies of A, it makes no sense to pretend this is not the case and give both A and B their own pages and taxonomic categories (see e.g. [[Undead Humanoids]] erroneously excluding [[Vampires]]).
-[[Image:Warning Icon Yellow.png|25px|left]] The user [[User:Yorickkk|Yorickkk]] (''<small>[[User_talk:Yorickkk|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/Yorickkk|contribs]] &bull; [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions/{{urlencode:Yorickkk}}|bot=1}} bot contribs] &bull; [{{fullurl:Special:Log|type=block&page=User:{{urlencode:Yorickkk}}}} block log] &bull; [[Special:Blockip/Yorickkk|block]]</small>'') has vandalized {{{{#if:notsubsted||subst:}}#if:Template:Protected|the page [[:Template:Protected]]|the wiki}}. Please review their edits and take appropriate actions if necessary.
+'''1.2''' ''Muddled definitions'': Taxonomies with double entries are not taxonomies. However, some of the categories we use have been so badly defined that boundaries fade away and overlaps start occurring, something which in turn leads to double entries. The [[Thornfire Wolf]], for example, is classified both in [[Canines]] and in [[Pyro-Elementals]]; however, elementals are 'freaks' of nature even in Tibia and can in no way ''also'' be classified as anything that actually exists as a fully natural part of the Tibian universe.
-and his other acc, [[User:Norbertino1]]
+'''1.3''' ''Superstrate categories'': Superstrate categories have no place in taxonomies because they operate on one level higher and simply select for a random trait (rather than race) that could occur across several taxonomic categories. This is why I removed categories such as [[Bosses]] from our taxonomy; it's obviously a very important page to have on the wiki, but it can only exist outside of our official taxonomy.
-Sincerely,<br />
-[[User:Cauli92]]
+'''2.''' Some notes on my reworking:
-== New Admins ==
+'''2.1''' ''Single entries:'' Every single creature can only be part of one category.
-Welcome to the team Cauli and Vapaus! :)
+'''2.1.1''' This isn't always as straightforward, as certain names and appearances can give off ambiguous signals. This is why we need clear defintions that lead to well-defined boundaries. The name and appearance of a creature such as [[Demon Skeleton]], for example, could be interpreted as hinting towards two different categories. Clearly establishing that [[The Undead]] can only ever be animated by necromantic spirit and [[Demons]] only ever by demonic spirit, however, will remove all ambiguity and lead to one clear answer.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 00:05, May 7, 2015 (UTC)
+'''2.1.2''' It's not just about definitions and boundaries, though. Something that is also important is that we view every individual creature holistically and base our decision on all available information regarding that creature. A name such as [[Demon Parrot]] might indicate that this creature is, just like the [[Demon Skeleton]], animated by demonic spirit. However, looking into the context we have available will reveal that all [[Isle of Evil]] creatures were genetically altered by [[Doctor Perhaps]] to serve his evil purposes; [[Demon Parrot]]s are therefore nothing but evil birds with a menacing name.
+'''2.1.3''' The only exceptions to this rule would currently be the [[Lord of the Elements]] and [[Mutated Zalamon]], but that's because they're literally multiple creatures in one. (I don't feel that the other [[Shapeshifters]] fit the bill because they don't throw away their entire 'identity' every time they shapeshift. This is hard to explain and a lot more subjective than I'd like it to be, but we can work out those specifics together.)
+'''2.2''' ''Balance broad–narrow'': Some categories had to be broadened a bit because they didn't taxonomically include all creatures listed on their pages. Narrowing a category, on the other hand, felt appropriate when dealing with taxa containing a great diversity of creatures, especially if those creatures are also very salient (both in users' real-life experience and in-game experience). How salient a creature is in someone's experience can influence their perception of diversity to a great extent. Lumping all molluscs in the same category wouldn't nonplus users as much as lumping all chordates in the same category, for example, even though both Mollusca and Chordata are phyla and therefore on the same taxonomic level; there's simply more perceived diversity within Chordata because those are the most salient animals in people's lives.
+'''2.3''' ''Nomenclature'': The nomenclature used for the lower-tier categories is as exact and taxonomically valid as possible. The nomenclature used for the upper-tier categories can't be very exact or taxonomically valid for various reasons. [[Invertebrates]] is not in any way a taxonomic category, for example, but convenient nomenclature like that certainly helps give more order to our taxonomy by keeping it from being one big messy amalgam of all lower-tier categories.
+'''3.''' The system below is what I've come up with while doing my best to keep all of the above in mind.
+{{Navbox
+| name  = Creature Types
+| title = [[Creatures|Creature Types of Tibia]]
+| listclass = hlist
+| image = [[File:Ferumbras.gif|alt=Creature Types of Tibia|link=Creatures]]
+| group1 = [[Amphibians]]
+| list1  =
+* [[Anurans]]
+* [[Njey]]
+* [[Quara]]
+* [[Urodelans]]
+| group2 = [[Birds]]
+| list2 =
+* [[Aequorlitornithes]]
+* [[Columbavians]]
+* [[Galloanseres]]
+* [[Inopinavians]]
+| group3 = [[Elementals]]
+| list3  =
+* [[Bio-Elementals|Bio-]]
+* [[Electro-Elementals|Electro-]]
+* [[Geo-Elementals|Geo-]]
+* [[Hydro-Elementals|Hydro-]]
+* [[Pyro-Elementals|Pyro-]]
+| group4 = [[Fish]]
+| list4  =
+* [[Actinopterygians]]
+* [[Chondrichthians]]
+| group5 = [[Humanoids]]
+| list5 =
+* [[Astral Shapers]]
+* [[Chakoyas]]
+* [[Cyclopes]]
+* [[Dwarves]]
+* [[Dworcs]]
+* [[Elves]]
+* [[Frost Giants]]
+* [[Gnomes]]
+* [[Goblins]]
+* [[Ogres]]
+* [[Orclopses]]
+* [[Orcs]]
+* [[Trolls]]
+| group6 = [[Immortals]]
+| list6 =
+* [[Animated Objects]]
+* [[Demons]]
+* [[Djinn]]
+* [[Fae]]
+* [[Magic Entities]]
+* [[The Undead]]
+| group7 = [[Invertebrates]]
+| list7 =
+* [[Arachnids]]
+* [[Bonelords]]
+* [[Cephalopods]]
+* [[Clitellates]]
+* [[Gastropods]]
+* [[Insects]]
+* [[Malacostracans]]
+* [[Medusozoans]]
+* [[Myriapods]]
+| group8 = [[Mammals]]
+| list8  =
+* [[Bovids]]
+* [[Camelids]]
+* [[Canids]]
+* [[Cervids]]
+* [[Chiropterans]]
+* [[Elephantids]]
+* [[Equids]]
+* [[Eulipotyphlans]]
+* [[Felids]]
+* [[Humans]]
+* [[Hyaenids]]
+* [[Lagomorphs]]
+* [[Musteloids]]
+* [[Prehumans]]
+* [[Rhinocerotids]]
+* [[Rodents]]
+* [[Suids]]
+* [[Ursids]]
+| group9 = [[Reptiles]]
+| list9 =
+* [[Crocodilians]]
+* [[Dragons]]
+* [[Draken]]
+* [[Lacertids]]
+* [[Serpents]]
+* [[Testudinians]]
+}}
+'''3.1''' ''Amphibians'': No changes.
+'''3.2''' ''Birds'': Not that many birds to speak of in Tibia, but since birds are one of the most salient animal realms in real-life (alongside amphibians, fish, mammals, and reptiles), I thought it best to move this category to the upper tier of our two-tiered system and make some very basic distinctions within (all are between the levels of class and order) to determine the lower-tier categories.
+'''3.3''' ''Elementals'': This category would now directly represent only the four basic elements of Tibia as well as the [[Bio-Elementals]]. [[Blobs]] and [[Elemental Lords]] dissolve (as they have nothing to do with race), whereas [[Cryo-Elementals]] moves in with [[Hydro-Elementals]] and [[Magma-Elementals]] with [[Geo-Elementals]].
+'''3.4''' ''Fish'': See 3.2. Both categories are classes, so the only distinction I made was made relatively high up in the taxonomy tree.
+'''3.5''' ''Humanoids'': [[Giants]] doesn't select for race and had to be removed. It fell apart into ''Cyclopes'', ''Frost Giants'', and ''Ogres''. [[Behemoth]] moved to ''Bovids'', [[Thundergiant]] to [[Geo-Elementals]] (that's what Cip called it when it was introduced), and I'm quite convinced [[Yeti]]s are not so much [[Apes]] but rather overgrown [[Chakoyas]] (they have a similar 'moustache' and also share their bright blue eyes with the [[Chakoya Tribewarden]]). [[Djinn]] and [[Fae]] are part of  ''Immortals''. [[Corym]] are part of ''Rodents''. [[Minotaurs]] are part of ''Bovids''.
+'''3.6''' ''Immortals'': Anything that is completely outside of Tibian nature fits in this category. ''Animated Objects'' is exactly what it looks like but also eats up our current [[Machines]] category as well as most of the [[Traps]] category. [[Demons]] used to be an upper-tier category, but its lower-tier categories either resulted from forced distinctions or the setting apart of [[cabal]]s. ''Magic Entities'' is an entirely new category that should include all intangible expressions of magic (see e.g. [[Lost Time]] or [[Wild Fury Magic]]). [[The Undead]] suffered from issues similar to those suffered by [[Demons]].
+'''3.7''' ''Mammals'': The reason I've included so many family categories here is because of the notion of perceived diversity I mentioned in 2.2. [[Mustelids]] had to be broadened to ''Musteloids'' because it didn't actually include skunks. I felt [[Ungulates]] made use of too basic a distinction, so I split it up into ''Bovids'', ''Camelids'', ''Cervids'', ''Elephantids'', ''Equids'', ''Rhinocerotids'', and ''Suids''. [[Mutated Mammals]] doesn't select for race and was removed. ''Prehumans'' was the only label (it's an actual term, although not a taxonomic one) I could think of to replace [[Apes]] without continuing to imply humans should be part of it. Since [[Lycanthropes]] is racially all over the place and doesn't really work as its own category, I've decided to consider them humans who in their animal form only count as animals.
+'''3.8''' ''Invertebrates'': Since Mollusca is quite a diverse phylum, I decided to go one level lower and split it up into the classes of ''Cephalopods'' and ''Gastropods''. Annelida is less outwardly diverse but also a phylum, so renaming it after the class of ''Clitellates'' seemed appropriate (the other two extant Annelida classes are primarily marine and therefore wouldn't make much sense as far as Tibian worms go). With Crustacea being a subphylum and the only crustaceans in Tibia being crabs and relatives, calling them all ''Malacostracans'' is a more specific way of grouping them. The phylum of Cnidaria is very diverse and the only Tibian creature it would include is better off in the subphylum of ''Medusozoans''. [[Hive Born]] was removed because it doesn't select for race.
+'''3.9''' ''Reptiles'': The lowest taxonomic rank that includes all real-life lizards is the Squamata order, but since that label would also include all of the snakes I decided to go with the family of ''Lacertids'' (the prototypical group of lizards also known as the true lizards) to group all of our [[Lizards]] together. The [[Wyverns]] move here because they are nothing but flying lizards according to Tibia lore. Similarly, [[Hydras]] and [[Wyrms]] are nothing but [[Dragons]].
+'''4.''' Final notes:
+'''4.1''' ''Non-racial splits'': I would definitely encourage certain non-racial splits within categorical pages. This way, links such as [[Voodoo Cultists]] can still point to a neatly organised list of all voodoo cultists without the implication they're somehow of a different race than all other humans. However, I don't think this is something that should be overused. Perpetuating the current distinction between [[Skeletons]] and the rest of [[The Undead]], for instance, seems rather pointless to me as far as user-friendliness is concerned.
+'''4.2''' ''Parameter improvements'': In order to progress towards a state where taxonomic categories and superstrate categories are two completely distinct elements, it would be best to further improve certain parameters to fulfil the functions our taxonomic parameters still sometimes fulfil. Category [[Event Creatures]], for example, still gets its information from the taxonomic parameters on creature pages; it would be a huge improvement in this case if the 'spawntype'-parameter were to be the parameter that would have the ability to assign this category instead.
+'''4.3''' ''NPC applications'': This taxonomy can also be applied to NPCs, which means they can simply be included on the same pages creatures use (but as part of a separate list, of course). Also, since I've come to the conclusion during my work on this new taxonomy that [[The Undead]] should certainly be treated as a completely separate race (with creatures 'giving up' their former racial identity once undead, so to speak), it would appear that Bennie's second comment on [[Talk:Adrenius#Race]] makes a lot more sense than mine! -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 18:09, November 29, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Wow, thanks for your extensive research on this Wouter!
-Congratulations to both of you! -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 10:52, May 7, 2015 (UTC)
-----
+I have no fundamental problems with implementing this new classification. Some questions which come to mind are:
-Thanks a lot guys, I hope I will cope with the admin tasks and not disappoint TibiaWiki!<br />
+* Is it really necessary to make such extensive use of latin names? Or are these all English names I simply don't know? Anyways, if there are more simple English names (see [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctoidea wikipedia] Ursidae simply redirects to Bear) I would prefer them over latin ones, for several reasons:
--- [[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 13:13, May 7, 2015 (UTC)
+** Then I won't have to look it up;
+** It is very likely the above counts for other people as well, I think a lot of people visiting our wiki are not taxonomy experts;
+** It therefore keeps our wiki more accessible.
+However, this is not a deal breaker, I can also see reasons to actually use those latin names, to be more precise and have no ambiguity what the boundaries of the category are.
+* Reading between the lines, it seems you used our current 2-tiered system as a given starting point. In my opinion, this was an arbitrary choice, it is perfectly fine to change this to a 3-tiered system or even more, if that would make more sense. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this.
+Regarding "parameter improvement", that is certainly feasible. We have the tooling to change templates and mass-edit pages, so if you have some concrete propositions we can execute them.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:01, November 29, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Good job, Wouterboy!
-Thank you very much,I will try to do my best  :)<br>
-[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]]) 14:17, May 7, 2015 (UTC)
+I had the same thoughts as Bennie concerning the nomenclature and the possibility of third tiers when suited (e.g for humans).
+I had a feeling that Cip based on our current taxonomy to classify monsters in Cyclopedia's Bestiary. We should create a new parameter for that [[Bestiary Creature Classes|different classification]] and create pages for those classes (redirect them to the new taxonomy pages?).
-== Whitelisting? ==
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 19:37, November 29, 2017 (UTC)
-''moved from [[User_Talk:Cauli92]]'' on May 8, 2015
 ----
+#I'm very well aware that the nomenclature used can be very alienating to many of our users. However, this is simply the language of taxonomy and taxonomy is an exact matter. In your example, ''Ursids'' and ''Bears'' can only be used fully interchangeably because both can only refer to the family of bears. If you were to replace e.g. ''Anurans'' with ''Frogs'', though, you'll be inviting ambiguity, as ''Frogs'' can refer both to the order Anura as well as to any family of frogs. A statement such as “Toads are frogs.” can therefore be both right and wrong depending on what taxon you are referring to exactly. No such ambiguity is possible when using the official scientific terminology, as any term can refer to one taxon only. Moreover, many such taxa don't even ''have'' a colloquial English equivalent.
+#I have indeed considered going from a two-tier system to a three-tier system, but I didn't think that would make any more sense. I feel that doing that would make our taxonomy too cluttered and cumbersome. Finding the right broad–narrow balance for our lower-tier categories and loosely organising them within convenient upper-tier categories is the ideal system for this wiki in my opinion.
+#My first concrete proposition regarding parameter improvements would be the one I mentioned in 4.2. (By extension, a similar parameter could be used for [[Quest Items]]/[[Quest Objects]], since those categories are also superstrate and shouldn't be used to actually classify items and objects. There's no point in implementing something like that without first uniting the two infoboxes, though.)
+#Hunter, only sometimes making use of a third tier would simply be inconsistent. Moreover, this idea would literally be impossible to apply to your example, since all current humans belong to the subspecies ''Homo sapiens sapiens'' and there's simply no way of going lower than that. That's the reason I'm a supporter of the non-racial splits I mentioned in 4.1. Anyone looking for the [[Voodoo Cultists]], for example, would still be able to find all of them together under their own heading and in their own list on the ''Humans'' page through a '' Voodoo Cultists'' redirect that points to ''Humans#Voodoo Cultists''.
+#We should indeed create a parameter for what bestiary class a creature falls into, but I don't think we should create pages for those classes. That would make it seem as if we're using two competing taxonomies at the same time, which would only confuse users. I think it would be best if we use [[Bestiary Creature Classes]] to list all creatures by their bestiary entry in collapsible lists and have the parameter link to and automatically open the right list, e.g. ''bestiaryclass = aquatic'' would link to and automatically open the list for ''Bestiary Creature Classes#Aquatic''. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 18:00, December 1, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+As far as the latter part of point 4 is concerned, I've already thought of a better solution. It would actually make more sense to retain the [[Voodoo Cultists]] page (and similar pages) as it is (but outside of our taxonomy), because even though it doesn't have anything to do with race, it's still concerned with a coherent group of creatures that 'belong' together. This way we won't have to break the DPL on taxonomy pages to create separate lists specifically for such groups. We could even create an entirely new parameter that's concerned with non-racial grouping (so it wouldn't function as a third tier of our taxonomy but rather be completely independent of it) that would only be applied where appropriate and which would give the user a bit more creature context beyond race. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 12:07, December 2, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+Thumbs up for non-racial groups. :)
+Should we make those groups for all lower tier classes listed in [[Template:Creature Types]] that are not going to be part of the new taxonomy?
-How do I get whitelisted? I've been here for quite awhile now...
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 13:51, December 2, 2017 (UTC)
-[[User:Kurrygrodan|Kurrygrodan]] ([[User talk:Kurrygrodan|talk]]) 15:56, May 8, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+We should for many of them, yes. Some of them don't fit the bill, though. Take for example [[Skeletons]]. It's just a mishmash of undead creatures that happen to have a certain aspect of their appearance in common; they don't actually form a specific 'clan' like the [[Voodoo Cultists]] do and are therefore not similar to one another in a way that matters, i.e. the connection this page establishes between the creatures is completely random and not useful to our users. The [[Voodoo Cultists]] page, on the other hand, clearly deals with creatures that 'belong' together and can be useful to our users in finding out what other creatures can generally be found in e.g. an [[Acolyte of the Cult]]'s vicinity. The [[The Ruthless Seven]] page can be useful because it deals with a connection that was made for us by [[Cipsoft]] themselves (otherwise we wouldn't have had any reason to group them together in the first place), and so on. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 14:02, December 3, 2017 (UTC)
-Hey [[User:Kurrygrodan|Kurrygrodan]],<br />
-Unfortunately, I'm unable to help you in this matter as I have joined the team very recently and would prefer to not make this kind of decissions yet, as I'm not quite sure how they determine who's worthy of being whitelisted(even though your profile looks good enough for me).
-For that reason, I'm moving your question to [[Talk:Administrator Team]] page - the best place to ask this of question. Here, your problem has highest chances to be adressed by other Team members after one has failed.<br />
--- [[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 17:11, May 8, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+I think our system as well as yours both seem to make unnecessary resemblance to some real-world categorization. Taxonomic categorizations rely on evolutionary or genetic characteristics which are obviously out of scope for a fantasy game. CipSoft can invent a new species that clearly overlaps two categories. CipSoft can implement, say, an amphibian/bird hybrid. Hence, your system is not robust; it does not resist the addition of hybrid species. I feel like a hierarchical structure is inappropriate for this reason; it assumes a well-defined structure that does not exist because Tibia does not conform to the laws of nature. How can we infer about creatures in a fantasy setting based on our understanding of a real world? We can't. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:24, December 4, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+I see your point, but most of the time we ''can'' in fact infer about Tibian creatures based on our understanding of the real world because Tibia's foundation ''is'' the real world. Tibia therefore mostly ''does'' conform to the laws of nature and a somewhat well-defined structure therefore ''does'' exist. Refusing to acknowledge Tibia's real-life foundations would mean to misrepresent the game, something which just seems gratuitously deceitful to me. CipSoft used these foundations as their starting point and simply remoulded them to allow for the inclusion of fantasy creatures, and we can do exactly the same with our taxonomy by using real-life scientific classification as our starting point and then remoulding that.
+As far as hybrid species are concerned, they already exist: we have the [[Rorc]], the [[Forest Fury]], [[Lycanthropes]], etc. (and to respond to your amphibian/bird hybrid example: any bird able to breathe through its skin can scientifically speaking never be considered a bird, so it wouldn't cause us any problems ''exactly because'' our taxonomy uses real-life scientific classification as its foundation). I've considered such cases and I personally think they should only be classified as the species they are primarily, i.e. as the one species that defines them most: Rorcs and Forest Furies are ''in essence'' still [[Orcs]] and [[Elves]] respectively despite their mutations, whereas the Lycanthropes in their particular state are more beast than man and therefore better classified as animals. Using such self-dictated guidelines to circumvent any overlaps we might encounter in the fantasy department in order to make our taxonomy more robust seems like a rational thing to do, especially since I reckon overlaps are always going to be hard to avoid regardless of whatever taxonomic system we might be using. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 23:44, December 4, 2017 (UTC)
-== Spell changes ==
+----
+You have solid arguments, although it very obviously introduces subjectivity in the decision-making process when overlapping species are added. However, the usefulness of either system is inhibited by the fact that few of our users actually care for taxonomic classification, because it doesn't help them to decide what to hunt or what drops a particular item. Thus, a hierarchical classification is mostly a "nice to have" feature. I would be accepting of your suggestion under the expectation that ''none of our internal systems rely on such a classification and the taxonomy is not designed around in-game features''. For example, [[The Colours of Magic]] has "party animals" and "spellcaster" creatures to which a reward applies. Our classification should be totally independent of any such systems (because we cannot regulate the game mechanics). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:16, December 5, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+Strictly adhering to a single-entry system indeed adds a bit of subjectivity into the mix regarding hybrids, but most of the time one part of a hybrid creature does clearly tend to manifest itself more prominently and crucially than the other, meaning that the presupposition of some sort of instinctive consensus is not necessarily an absolutely laughable substitute for rationality. For instance, I think most people would agree that the fact that the [[Rorc]] was originally a purebred [[Orc]] should have more bearing on its classification than the [[Terror Bird]] part that's there solely as a result of mutation.
+You're also right in saying that a taxonomy is mostly a nice-to-have feature most users won't really care about, but at the same time I do feel a game-based wiki such as ours has the responsibility to create and maintain classification systems encompassing all members of a particular gameplay class (whether it be [[Creatures]], or [[Items]], or what have you) to allow anyone access to all members of any such class at once through the use of just one neatly organised hub.
-Hey guys,
+I strived to make our new creature classification system as taxonomically sound as possible, which is why I purposely avoided incorporating anything into it that has to do with the 'role' a particular creature might have been assigned in-game. All that matters is what the creature itself really ''is'' in isolation, i.e. without paying regard to any external gameplay-related noise. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 00:32, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
-Today I used [[User:SixBot]] to make the following changes to spell articles:
-* Some old pages used "'''S'''ubclass" instead of "'''s'''ubclass". I fixed these.
-* Some old pages used "graphic" and almost all pages used "learnfrom", neither of which are used, so I removed them.
-* All our pages used "expLvl" which is quite nonstandard so I changed it to "levelrequired" to be in line with items' levelrequired.
+== Calculators not loading ==
-I have searched for things that would break as a result of these changes, and corrected the ones that I found. Let me know if there are any broken pages as a result of these changes.
+Hey guys, I noticed that the page [[Calculators]] is not working. It keeps loading indefinitely. I tested it on 5 different browsers (Windows 10) and they all have Javascript enabled. Can anyone take a look at it?
-I will probably make additional changes to spells soon, e.g. removing MagLvl from spells. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 05:47, May 24, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Tyrodus Zeth|Tyrodus Zeth]] ([[User talk:Tyrodus Zeth|talk]]) 17:17, January 16, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
+As you can read in [[Talk:Calculators#Not working|its talk page]], it works on Firefox when using [{{fullurl:Calculators|useskin=monobook}} Monobook skin]. I'll ask Wikia / FANDOM to have a look at it and try to fix it.
-Changes made today:
-* MagLvl - gone; magic levels haven't applied to spells for years.
-* hidetemplate - only spell that used it was [[Convince Creature]]. Has no use now really.
-* Picked up some minor errors thanks to TibiaWiki:Data.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:19, January 16, 2018 (UTC)
-Some other questions/thoughts:
-* How to give cooldown/cooldowngroup to deprecated spells? There was always a cooldown, the global exhaust system.
-* Should we have named spell categories? ([[TibiaWiki:Data/Spell/cooldowngroup/table|cooldowngroup]])
-* The parameters "type" and "subclass" seem a bit confusing.
-** Type is either "Instant", "Rune" or blank; basically a binary parameter. This is in line with Tibia's "Type".
-** Subclass is either "Attack", "Field", "Healing", "Supply" or "Support". Originally this was supposed to mirror the Tibia website's "Group" which has Attack, Healing, Support. Then we added Field, Supply, and now it forms its own standard. It doesn't even follow the website's standard for attack spells: [[Heavy Magic Missile]] should be "support" - all runes are "Support" on Tibia's website but our attack rune spells are considered to be attack spells.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 11:04, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
-== History section on content pages ==
+== Lists filtering out Tibia History ==
+Hey guys,
-Hey guys. I'd like your opinion on adding a history section to pages. Currently we link to history subpages. Under the new system the subpages would stay for ease of editing but they would be included on the pages. The format of these history pages would be very different. We would need a standard for formatting them.
+I've noticed a lot of our DPL lists are excluding [[:Category:Tibia History]] still after the integration of history information in the main pages. This means that a lot of lists are potentially incomplete. If a DPL list is not showing something, this is most likely the problem. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:40, January 29, 2018 (UTC)
-I have a working example of what I'd like to see: [[A Sweaty Cyclops]]. Notable changes:
+----
-* History template gone.
+Good point, I will (soon) do a wiki-wide search on usage of this category in dpl lists and remove them if necessary.
-* Formatting: bullet points for core changes and indenting for elaboration.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 18:48, January 29, 2018 (UTC)
-* Headings: no more "Origin", "Ice protection" etc. headings; the headings [[Pair of Earmuffs/History|currently describe the changes]] (what), but they should describe the version (when). If [[Pair of Earmuffs]] receives another ice protection adjustment where would that go? Versions that introduce changes to an item should have a unique header.
+----
-Of course this would be a long-term change. All history pages would need to be adjusted. The sooner we agree on a format the sooner we can get it done.
+Oh wait, stupid me, I already did this in 2016 as I myself listed [[User:469Bot/Jobs|here]]. However, the case on [[Calculators]] was "|notcategory=Tibia History" (without a space between the pipe and notcategory). I will look for all variations, with or without spaces.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:49, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 20:51, January 31, 2018 (UTC)
+:There was a space between the pipe and ''notcategory'' in [[Mounts]] which was fixed two days ago. Perhaps your bot account couldn't fix it because the page is protected.
+:[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:28, January 31, 2018 (UTC)
+::Probably true, my bot does not have admin rights (I don't want it to accidentally delete stuff). -- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:04, February 1, 2018 (UTC)
+----
+I ran my bot but did not find any more cases which need to be fixed. Case closed.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:40, February 3, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
-I think we can all agree the history pages didn't work out what was intended when the format was created in the first page. The idea to have an origin for every history page wasn't really usable, either "introduced in update xx" (but we have implemented for this). Only a few pages have interesting origin stories.
+== Owners of "rare" items in articles ==
-So I agree a change is needed. Moving the content to the main articles seems reasonable, given that most history pages are very short right now, it saves a click if you don't have to navigate to them. I would suggest just completely moving their content instead of including (this would increase speed? or it doesn't matter after it's cached?).
+When wiki started many years ago, the idea behind "rare items" was much different then what it is today. There were probably only two dozen rare items, including those from very old times (e.g. [[Crown]]) and some like the [[Pharaoh Rares]]. These days, with all the new bosses and items that are only dropped by one or two of them, we have dozens of items which are rare, but at the same time are probably unknown by the vast majority of players. To add to that, we have a considerable number of fansite/contest/special items that are only given by CipSoft (or with their permission). While many of these are indeed rare (like ''some'' Fansite Items), others have been given out so many times that they are not really rare (for example the [[Silver Trophy of Excellence]], I have one and it's not listed :>).
-It's a big project indeed, if every edit would be needed to be done manually. But I agree it's needed. I agree with your format, although I can imagine the bullet point list looks a little technical to most people.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:00, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-We should always think on what is the best for our visitors to read and to edit. Thus, moving the history to the content page seems the best option.<br />
-Thanks Six for putting time and energy on this!
+Keeping track of these has proved to be a challenge, and these days we don't even know in which server many of these rares are or if they still exist at all. It's not hard to click an owner name in an item's article and find out the character doesn't even exist anymore (deleted or name changed). So I propose that we should be more strict and remove many of the player's name references from pages in order to keep them cleaner and remove content that is outdated and hard/impossible to maintain.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 02:22, May 28, 2015 (UTC)
+'''1'''. An item can have its owners* listed only if the item was ''somewhat'' publicly given by CipSoft or by Supported/Promoted fansite.
-== Transferable ==
+Items (or groups) of items that fall into this category are:
-Hey guys,
-Sorry for a newbie question, but is it possible to make a specific item non-transferable, even thought it is pickable? If yes, how do I do it?
+* Fansite Items (not all [[Contest Prizes]])
+* Special gifts given by CipSoft for various reasons ([[Dragon Scale Legs]], [[Laurel Wreath]], [[Miniature House]], [[Council Certificate]])
+The reason I used ''somewhat'' is that I can think of some exceptions to this publicity rule. For example, [[Gamemaster Doll]]s were not announced, but were given to a very specific group of players (we don't have that list though). The same thing can be said about [[Council Certificate]]s. The [[Laurel Wreath]]s were not announced on Tibia.com, but they were announced during a meeting with many different tutors that witnessed it.
+Some items, despite the fact that they were given by CipSoft or a Fansite, are either relatively common or their receivers were not announced, meaning tracking them is impossible. I think we should remove lists from these items and, when possible, link to the news where the winners were announced (for example [[CM Token]]s). For example:
+* [[Contest Prizes]] given by CipSoft, such as [[Arcane Insignia]] and [[CM Token]].
+* [[Contest Prizes]] given by Fansites: [[Silver Trophy of Excellence]] and [[Bronze Trophy of Excellence]].
+* [[The Famous Golden Bug]]s, there are too many of them to count or track, and current list is completely outdated.
+Note: even though we say ''owners'', it would be preferred if we only mentioned players who ''received'' the items, since all of them are passive of being traded. Also, we can never say for sure if other players have received one copy of the item. Thus, it would be more accurate to mention those are ''known receivers''. For example: ''Players known to have received a Heavily Bound Book are...''. The [[Heavily Bound Book]] article actually have some good examples of how we can add the information while not being at risk of being outdated due to trades.
+'''2'''. Items that are just rare loots should not have their owners listed, since they are more likely to be traded, obtained again or even completely lose the rarity status. For example:
+* [[Pharaoh Rares]]
+* [[Amazon Set]]
+* [[Dragon Scale Boots]]
+* [[Treader of Torment]] and so on.
+'''3'''. Important historical information about some items can and should be kept, of course. Most Tibians are interested and like to have a source on the story behind the [[Magic Longsword]], for instance. A drawn must be line, however, in order for us to define what is history and what isn't. The very [[Magic Longsword]] page has conflicting information regarding its current owner. I would personally suggest the removal of the Current Location section and the Moises~ paragraph, but that is up for debate of course. Other items in a similar situation:
+* [[Crown]]
+* [[Blessed Shield]]
+* [[Rose Shield]]
+* [[Horned Helmet]]
+* The majority of these old-Antica rares.
+These changes would require some manual searches, and maybe we could add a short summary of the final rules to [[TibiaWiki:Policy]]. Then we would have to keep an eye out for new edits of this kind. Please let me know what you think of these new rules suggestion and of course feel free to suggest some changes as I may have overlooked something important.
-[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 21:03, June 5, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 18:49, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
+These seem some well-thought rules Molx, I can only agree with them.
-Since the template treats every item that can be picked up as transferable, I guess you should add specific exceptions to this rule in the template in order to block this package-deal (personally I wouldn't know how to do this, though). -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 21:13, June 5, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 20:06, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
+I agree with you, Molx. What should we do with rare item lists on game world articles?
-== Transferable ==
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 20:36, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
-Hey guys,
-Sorry for a newbie question, but is it possible to make a specific item non-transferable, even thought it is pickable? If yes, how do I do it?
-[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 21:03, June 5, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Yea i agree with you as well. this is a good change to be made. some of those pages have lists that are outdated, way too long and irrelevant,it just clutters the information (like [[Yellow Rose]] for example).<br>
-Since the template treats every item that can be picked up as transferable, I guess you should add specific exceptions to this rule in the template in order to block this package-deal (personally I wouldn't know how to do this, though). -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 21:13, June 5, 2015 (UTC)
+maybe that information should also be in a separate place, similar to a '''quest spoiler''' or a different page altogether like '''/Transcripts''' page, what do you think?<br>
+as to rares on game world articles, and in general i think we should make the distinction between '''looted''' or '''won in a contest''' to '''owns''' (on a game world, first person who looted is a part of the server's history) and remove '''owners''' of items that aren't impossibly rare (like [[Crown]],[[The Horned Fox]] etc)<br>
+[[User:Vapaus|Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]]) 11:48, February 10, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
+> maybe that information should also be in a separate place, similar to a quest spoiler or a different page altogether like /Transcripts page, what do you think?
-Thanks for the info, that's what I was thinking when all my attempts failed and I was not really willing to try and edit infobox templates as I'm totally green in this kind of stuff - I would probably break something or make a dozen of unnecessary edits/rerolls :p
+For the items that keep their "lists" it may be a good idea, but I'm not sure to be honest. In many cases the list would be too small and a dedicated page would look odd. If the list is so big that it is cluttering the main page, then perhaps it shouldn't be there at all. One exception is the [[Heavily Bound Book]] since its records are detailed for obvious reasons.
-Uhm, however, I was going to ask if someone who's capable of handling this could add exceptions in a free time for these items smuggled from Dawnport:<br >
-*[[The Chiller]]
-*[[The Scorcher]]
-*[[Lightest Missile Rune]]
-*[[Light Stone Shower Rune]]
+I haven't thought about World pages when I first wrote this, but I guess the same problems apply: we can't keep track. If we were only to mention prize items, it wouldn't make any sense, receiving a contest prize is the player's merit, not the game world's (unlike being the first one to defeat a hard boss, for example). And let's be fair: currently, many world pages are very very outdated, which is the result of so many worlds, world changes, character transfers and our own, of course. If we barely manage to update the first characters to reach this or that level, I don't think we would succeed in maintaining rare items, and if we decide to keep the records of any items, it would mean a second page (or group of pages) to update when necessary. The only world with any relevance in terms of rare items is Antica due to the fact that most of them originated from this world when CipSoft wasn't so professional and introduced rare items somewhat often. And even so, despite the concentration of rare items being larger there, the world lost its unique status long ago with character world transfers.
-But then I've checked [[Spellbook of the Novice]] and apparently, you can transfer it. As it makes no sense for it to be the only smuggled item that is visible in market and can be transfered, I assume it was just overlooked and should rather be reported by a tutor. I've asked a friend to do i already, so it's wisest to just wait and see to avoid unnecessary work.
+TL;DR: I suggest removing all item owners from game world pages. We keep the relevant information only on item's pages.
-[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 22:17, June 5, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-Not sure if I understand the problem. These items are impossible to obtain on the mainland, I presume? Our list is based on an official list provided by CipSoft. If CipSoft's internal list permits transferal then it can be transferred, unless there are inconsistencies of course. Transferable does not deal with whether or not you can actually obtain that item to perform the transfer.
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 17:32, February 16, 2018 (UTC)
-Am I mistaking your intention?
+== Standardizing Appearences ==
-As for the way to change it: it's all handled by the template [[Template:Transfer Restrictions]] and [[Template:Transfer Impossible]]. It was planned to add a parameter to items but since this data is given to us by CipSoft there's little reason to have it on the pages themselves. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 04:37, June 6, 2015 (UTC)
-----
-They are impossible to obtain right now, yes. They were supposed to be unobtainable at all, also yes. But as Cipsoft didn't do great job with testing Dawnport, there were multiple ways of getting these items to mainland and Cipsoft wasn't in a big rush to fix it, so now some players own plenty of them.
+There are 4 types of [[Appearances.dat|Appearances]] in Tibia:
-''Sharon: Oh, no, no, no, I'm sorry, but any the chiller has to stay on this world. Please check all of your depots as well as your inventory and make sure there's no the chiller to be found.''
+* Objects: [[Items]], [[Objects]] and [[Corpses]]
-[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 08:47, June 6, 2015 (UTC)
+* Outfits: Character's [[Outfits]] as well as all creatures' outfits
+* Effects: [[Effects]]
+* Missiles: Also [[Effects]]
+I think TibiaWiki's pages should reflect how the appearences are organized by CipSoft, but currently they are not, as seen above. I dream of the day when we will not have both [[Template:Infobox Item]] and [[Template:Infobox Object]] anymore, but that will obviously be a huge task and require a lot of bot-jobs I can't handle. I can, however, manually change the Missiles to [[Template:Infobox Missile]].
+I was thinking about first copying the template, and then adding the ''missileid'' parameter (or just ''id''). We can add one to Effects as well. This should also help us add all the Effects/Missiles we are missing (there are 191 + 59 of them, we only have 112). Any objections or suggestions?
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 01:31, May 22, 2018 (UTC)
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+No objections. Go ahead! :)
-Oh... that's odd. CipSoft provides us with a list of items that are transferable but with restrictions, but they don't inform us what is ''not'' transferable. I have a feeling that you should be allowed to transfer these items. I can't see why not. But, for the meantime, I have added the 4 items you linked to [[Template:Transfer Impossible]]. Thanks -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 10:56, June 6, 2015 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 11:17, May 22, 2018 (UTC)
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+When I added the tibia missiles as tibiawiki effects I did this because I thought there is no real difference. Of course it is totally fine to split them off now. Alternatively you could let them keep using the same template but add a distinguishing parameter called "type" or something similar.
-Thanks for adding them in there, I will try to keep an eye on the case and possibly remove them if necessary. Btw, why is that trunk listed? Is it being an example or is there something specific about this item? It's not pickable, so it should appear as non-transferable as well.
+Adding ids is a really good idea, please go ahead, we should add this to all pages which already have an id in tibia. I would go for "missileid" and not just "id", since this is similar to Infobox Item where we have "itemid".
-[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 17:04, June 6, 2015 (UTC)
+If you need a bot to run any bulk edits, just let me know.
-==Item Template==
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:48, May 22, 2018 (UTC)
-Some issues:
-*Is there a way to add some sort of 'hidden attributes' parameter to the template? Consumables such as the [[Veggie Casserole]] boost skills, but this does not become clear from their 'look text'. Treating these boosts as normal attributes therefore renders the 'look text' incorrect.
-*As of right now, the 'look texts' on rings with attributes make no sense. Attributes of rings are only visible when you put them on, but then the rings are not brand-new anymore. Easy fix, though: the actual duration can replace the 'brand-new', as it's possible to make a ring show its maximum duration by immediately looking at it after putting it on.
-*The above means that the 'duration' parameter would no longer need to appear in the right-hand box.
-*Also regarding duration, does anyone know how this is shown in-game for non-rings such as [[Fiery Rainbow Shield]] and [[Full Helmet of the Ancients]]? If this is different from how it is shown for rings, things will get tricky.
-*To be in complete concordance with the in-game 'look texts', all items providing protection (or taking some away) need to have 'protection' in front of their first resistance text, as in-game it is shown as e.g. "You see a terra hood (Arm:5, protection earth +4%, fire -5%)." --[[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 16:00, June 6, 2015 (UTC)
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-I can't really help you on technical side unfortunatelly, as I'm not any good with it, but as I'm editing the page, least I should do is to provide HotA ingame description:
+==Loot Statistics==
-:01 You see a helmet of the ancients (Arm:8).
+Hmm, I was just thinking... wouldn't it make more sense for the loot statistics pages to be creature sub-pages? So Rat/Loot Statistics rather than [[Loot Statistics:Rat]]? -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 10:58, April 5, 2019 (UTC)
-It weighs 27.60 oz.
-The gem of the helmet is burned out and should be replaced.
+----
-:01 You see a helmet of the ancients (Arm:11).
-It weighs 27.60 oz.
-The gem is glowing with power.
+I think that having those in a specific namespace has its advantages. For example, we can see in a User's [[Special:Editcount|edit count]] how much of his/hers contribution was loot statistics, which is an easy way to get your total count of edits up. We have users with thousands of edits but only a few that weren't statistics. For example, 32% of my Edit Count is actually from statistics, 4,769 out of 14,769.
-Can't confirm Rainbow shield, but a friend has told me time isn't displayed in there as well.
-[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 17:04, June 6, 2015 (UTC)
+It also makes advanced searching easier since we can exclude the statistics.
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 13:19, April 5, 2019 (UTC)
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+When we first introduced the system of Loot Statistics, we had reasons to make a separate namespace, one of them being the ability to filter away loot statistics edits from the recent changes page, which is only possible with a separate namespace. Interesting to note, is this wasn't the case from the start (see some red links [[User_talk:Daniel_Letalis/Archive_1#Witch.2FLoot_Statistics|here]]. You could argue that these reasons are not very relevant anymore, but I think it would be hard to argue that the current situation requires for a massive overhaul (moving all loot pages).
-Thanks. Is it also not displayed when looking at them while wearing them? -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 17:37, June 6, 2015 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:51, April 6, 2019 (UTC)
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+Very interesting information, and good reasoning. I guess it's just one of those changes that would be very satisfying but simply less practical than the alternative. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 11:16, April 6, 2019 (UTC)
-Correct, the text is exactly the same whether you wear it or keep it in your backpack.
-[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 17:40, June 6, 2015 (UTC)
+==Loot from Cow==
+I edited items looted from Cow that are sellable to Yasir. Now somebody has to add them to Yasir list, I can't do this . Maybe there are other items from the event [https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Orcsoberfest_Island Orcsoberfest] that needs to be added.
+[[User:Zvezdiica|Zvezdiica]] ([[User talk:Zvezdiica|talk]]) 23:26, January 18, 2020 (UTC)
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-Okay, thanks again. That means we will also need some sort of 'hidden duration' parameter. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 18:01, June 6, 2015 (UTC)
+I did that, thanks for your contribution. Indeed there are some items and other info still missing from this event, part of it we'll only be able to gather next time the event happens. -- [[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 05:15, January 19, 2020 (UTC)