Talk: Administrator Team

Revision as of 05:15, 19 January 2020

Welcome

Feel free to discuss things among admins. Ask things to admins, propose new ideas etc. Reporting a vandal can also be perfectly done here, but is not really the intention of this page. Also note that this page doesn't have the same function as TibiaWiki talk:Community Portal.

History section on content pages

Hey guys. I'd like your opinion on adding a history section to pages. Currently we link to history subpages. Under the new system the subpages would stay for ease of editing but they would be included on the pages. The format of these history pages would be very different. We would need a standard for formatting them.

I have a working example of what I'd like to see: A Sweaty Cyclops. Notable changes:

History template gone.
Formatting: bullet points for core changes and indenting for elaboration.
Headings: no more "Origin", "Ice protection" etc. headings; the headings currently describe the changes (what), but they should describe the version (when). If Pair of Earmuffs receives another ice protection adjustment where would that go? Versions that introduce changes to an item should have a unique header.

Of course this would be a long-term change. All history pages would need to be adjusted. The sooner we agree on a format the sooner we can get it done. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:49, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

I think we can all agree the history pages didn't work out what was intended when the format was created in the first page. The idea to have an origin for every history page wasn't really usable, either "introduced in update xx" (but we have implemented for this). Only a few pages have interesting origin stories.

So I agree a change is needed. Moving the content to the main articles seems reasonable, given that most history pages are very short right now, it saves a click if you don't have to navigate to them. I would suggest just completely moving their content instead of including (this would increase speed? or it doesn't matter after it's cached?).

It's a big project indeed, if every edit would be needed to be done manually. But I agree it's needed. I agree with your format, although I can imagine the bullet point list looks a little technical to most people. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:00, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

We should always think on what is the best for our visitors to read and to edit. Thus, moving the history to the content page seems the best option.
Thanks Six for putting time and energy on this!

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 02:22, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

Just to follow up on this old discussion, currently I'm working on history pages. What would you think is better:

History section is always shown, if no history is available this is displayed in italic text;
History section is hidden by default, but is displayed if parameter exists.

The advantage of the first option is editors know they can add history on pages which don't have it, but visitors might be annoyed by the message there is no history on 90% of our pages. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:13, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

I'd go for the second option because of exactly what you said.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:15, September 12, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, this has been implemented in all relevant infobox templates. Only some item history subpages need to be merged with their main item page. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:00, September 27, 2016 (UTC)

All remaining pages using Template:History have been merged. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:08, October 14, 2016 (UTC)

New item parameters

Hey guys,

I am working on the Updates/10.94 weapons. This is a huge project, there are 120 wiki pages needed, from which only one third are created up till now. There is something else as well, I wanted to add six new parameters to Template:Infobox Item:

crithit_ch
critextra_dmg
manaleech_ch
manaleech_am
hpleech_ch
hpleech_am

This will have the advantage to query for these properties with DPL, to have them in separate table columns and not everything grouped in the attributes column. Like previously discussed, this should also be done with all the damage modifies like "axe fighting + 1". Any objections or thoughts? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 09:19, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, go for it! As I stated last year, I believe skill and speed modifiers should also have their own individual parameters.
Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:24, September 12, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I implemented the six new parameters and made separate DPL templates to list them. I will start adding new parameters soon and include skill and speed modifiers as well. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:01, September 27, 2016 (UTC)

Node-count limit

Does anyone know how to extend the node-count limit or how to circumvent it?

Affected pages:

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:47, September 12, 2016 (UTC)

It's called preprocessor node count. Kirkburn said this is not something we are likely to be able to raise (at least in the short term) and suggested us to look into ways to reduce the complexity of the page - perhaps by splitting it into more pages, or reducing the number of template calls it makes.

How can we reduce the number of template calls? Should we remove Loot and Dropped By columns from those pages (and all similar pages in order to keep the standards)?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 16:01, September 17, 2016 (UTC)

Seems to work, tested on Physical Damage/Neutral. I don't know what columns are most important to keep.

-- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:49, September 17, 2016 (UTC)

Two more pages added to the list. By the way, shouldn't there be a Loot namespace for such pages?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 09:14, September 28, 2016 (UTC)

Re: namespace - No way. We're limited in the number of custom namespaces we can have (2 I think). Besides, these Loot pages are outdated and should probably be removed completely since they create huge maintenance jobs (if a creature's loot table is modified, all loot pages with that creature have to be updated) and they're seldom used (probably because they aren't up to date?). -- Sixorish (talk) 16:20, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

Just tuning in to say that I agree with Six regarding the pointlessness of those loot pages. -- Wouterboy (talk) 17:04, November 19, 2016 (UTC)

Renaming category for NPCs

Hey all, I plan to rename the category: Category:NPCs in Tibia to Category:NPCs, which is more logical. Are there any objections to abstain from doing so? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:08, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

I believe Category:NPCs in Tibia is meant to be applied only to individual NPCs and Category:NPCs is meant to apply only to groups of them. However, the latter is barely used for its intended purpose, as you can see from the low amount of pages that are listed under it. The question you should ask yourself is whether this special group-sorting category is even necessary, especially given the fact that categories such as Category:NPC Locations and Category: NPC Occupations have taken over this role for a large part. Based on the outcome of those ponderings you can then decide either to carry out the move or to abandon it. -- Wouterboy (talk) 16:21, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I think I made all necessary arrangements to do the change. Soon I will let my bot crawl over all wiki pages to do this search-and-replace. Hopefully this will catch them all and break nothing. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:19, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Item and Imbuing

I'd like to propose the removal of the parameter imbuable from the item template. Items are bound by the functional dependency imbuement → imbuable; an item is imbuable if and only if imbuement > 0. This parameter is not declared on non-imbuable items. Thus, we're storing the same information (imbuable) twice. While at it, I would also like to propose the imbuement parameter be renamed to imbueslots (preferred) or imbuements (plural).

Any objections to this? (Bennie, if you have time, I could use the service of your bot for this)

-- Sixorish (talk) 15:27, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the removal of the imbuable parameter and rename imbuent to imbueslots. I'll set up my bot to do this soon. On a sidenote, how did you obtain the imbuements information? I couldn't find a list on the test server forum, but they also changed the items a bit since then. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:15, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

I had 94ish items and then I realized they added the number of slots to the market. -- Sixorish (talk) 03:35, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

The market is a good source of info, didn't realise that as well. My bot is currently editing the 200 pages. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 10:17, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

Tibia's 20th Anniversary

There's not a word about Tibia's 20th Anniversary on the front page of the tibia wiki. Even the events section says "This month, January, there are 2 events: New Year Time and Bewitched." Surely, Tibia's 20th anniversary is worth at least mentioning as an event.

Pattre Kempe (talk) 07:19, January 11, 2017 (UTC)

CreatureDroppedBy Bot Proposal

Hey guys,

I wrote a bot proposal. My idea was to write this bot in Java, since I learned it recently and use it daily on my job now. Anyways, a lot of programming languagues already have API access libraries. Then I can just run the bot ~weekly and maybe more during updates. If you have any feedback on this idea I'd like to hear them. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 09:50, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

i think this is a great idea, the only note i can think of right now is to eliminate certain special loot (silver raid tokens, party wall snake,party wall tinsel, party lampions - or during events like anniversary old rugs)

Vapaus (talk)

I think it would be good but there are two scenarios that this will cause issues:

User adds false information.
User A edits Demon, saying that it drops Mouldy Cheese;

Your bot adds that information to Mouldy Cheese.
User removes false information.
User B sees the issue when browsing Mouldy Cheese (...as one does...) and removes the information from Mouldy Cheese.

Your bot adds that information back to Mouldy Cheese.

There are of course workarounds to this:

Have all edits marked as pending review; post the list of changes to be made and allow editors to review these before they go live. They can edit the page to remove that item (hopefully making it impossible for your bot to find this issue next run).
Post all changes made to an article for review in post.

-- Sixorish (talk) 14:47, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Vapaus, that's a good point. I think there is a list of filtered items in the loot parser which I can use and also add stuff like Gold Coin which we don't list a droppedby list of.

Sixorish, that's a good point but will only be an issue if I'd let the bot run without any double-checking. I'll have to look for false positives in the beginning and think of ways to filter them later.

I (almost) have a first working version. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 13:32, February 19, 2017 (UTC)

I thought the plan was to run it as a weekly cron job, fully unmanned; if you're checking the changes yourself, that shouldn't be an issue. Are you looking for help on the coding side of things? -- Sixorish (talk) 14:21, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Well, a fully unmanned situation would be ideal, but requires some extra measures to prevent situations to happen, like you described.

I marked you as a collaborator so you can help if you want. But first I'm going to make the code a little cleaner, up until now I was just trying to get something to work, but I can do better than this (I'm currently reading "Clean Code" by Robert Martin which has some really nice insights, I can recommend it). -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:12, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Reachable / Unreachable - Debug Tiles?

With the recent updates to the tibia-maps project, a few reachable/unreachable tiles were uncovered by Svargrond arena. I am guessing these tiles are related by some functional purpose, but what is it? Can they be reached or were they just temporary teleportation tiles while the debugging process was active; and if they cannot be reached, do they still exist? (If so, why?)

If they are related for some reason and still exist today, then surely other related game functions (seems to be time-based events?) have their own as well.

Here are some other boss rooms that have candidate tiles (or maybe not):

https://tibiamaps.io/map#33259,31689,15:3 (Stonecracker)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#33070,31039,12:2 (Zanakeph?)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#32039,31741,8:4 (The Collector)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#32957,31046,8:2 (Flameborn?)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#33243,31611,11:2 (?)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#32051,31249,11:2 (Bretzecutioner)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#32030,32555,15:2 (Kerberos)
https://tibiamaps.io/map#33395,31546,10:3 (Feroxa? Wait, is this right? Can't you levitate up there?)
- Some other candidate tiles in that area too.
Svargrond arena
Bigfoot's Burden
- You reach this one if, for some reason, teleporting to Abyssador's room is impossible. It did this on Test Server for an unknown reason, that's why we have these maps. This tile kicked anyone on it offline, and moved them to the temple at next login.
(none visible for The Many, The Noxious Spawn or Gorgo)

-- Sixorish (talk) 12:14, May 23, 2017 (UTC)

I've noticed similar tiles on PvP and PvE arenas, like here, here, here, here and here.

The tiles you mentioned in Svargrond arena have always been there and Cip never tried to hide them on the maps published to promoted/supported fansites (check the early versions of File:Minimap Floor 7.png).

Here's a "screenshot" of Svargrond arena's secret tiles:

I believe characters are either teleported there in order to trigger the arena/boss event (making monster spawn, starting timers) or when the time is over (before being teleported somewhere else).

Other places:

Koshei the Deathless
Under Calcanea (related to A Pirate's Death to Me?)
Under Ghostlands (related to The Queen of the Banshees Quest?)
??

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 14:59, May 23, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, they are used to trigger the spawning of certain creatures or to effectuate changes to the environment. I remember a post on the forums some time ago by someone who had figured out that the separate stages of the orcish raid on Zzaion are triggered by rats spawning on top of such switchplates. -- Wouterboy (talk) 02:21, May 24, 2017 (UTC)

BattlEye integration

Should we change Template:Infobox World to add a boolean field to represent whether or not servers are protected by BattlEye? -- Sixorish (talk) 05:22, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

Well, it depends. Won't all worlds get BE protection in a few months? Your suggestion would only make sense if for an extended period of time only a part of the servers are BE protected. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:34, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

Seeing how CIpsoft makes those changes, I think it's a good idea to have BattlEye column, if they keep activating it on few by few worlds, people will get lost eventualy, so even if it has to be reversed in near(half a year, year?) future, it could be pretty useful for now. Cauli92 (talk) 09:39, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

I had the same idea some days ago when I was editing a few game world pages. Go ahead, Six! :)

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 12:53, May 26, 2017 (UTC)

For the moment, CipSoft is experimenting with the cost-effectiveness of rolling out BattlEye. This means that any number of game worlds could have BattlEye enabled or disabled throughout the next few months. As such, I've added support for a parameter 'battleye' which can be removed if BattlEye becomes global. -- Sixorish (talk) 09:49, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, looks good! -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:39, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Good job, Six!

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 17:48, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Double Loot

Should we revert all Loot Statistics uploaded during the double loot weekend?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 19:29, June 1, 2017 (UTC)

Or maybe just replace the page with an explaining text during that week? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:41, June 1, 2017 (UTC)

One problem is that people may record loot statistics for weeks and only upload them when they have a lot. To minimise this we should, in addition to one of the other solutions, issue a notice to avoid the collection of loot until the period ends. -- Sixorish (talk) 06:13, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. Can any of you (or someone else) do those things? I'm just too busy now. Thanks.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 14:14, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

maybe we are going about this the wrong way, maybe we should double the amount of kills uploaded during double loot?
Vapaus (talk) 16:21, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

We can't just double the amount of kills. We would need to do something with the maximum amount of each dropped item which would be increase after the upload. Also, it would decrease the no loot rate.

I have some news! After the Winter Update, loot messages during double loot events should be similar to the ones when a double loot prey bonus is active. It means we will be able to filter them out automatically.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:21, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

JSON API

I've been working on a nice little project I'd like to share with you. The goal is to expose this wikis content in a JSON API, which other people or fansites can use (besides my wikiBot which can use this to read wiki articles, change things and write them back). I first wrote my code in Java, but to host the API on this wiki itself I thought it should run on the wiki. So I ported (part of) my code to lua. You can see a demo here. If you edit the page, you can change the word "Bear" to another creature you like and click on preview to see the result. Right now I only support Creatures, but ultimately all types will be supported.

Next thing to look into is how to use query parameters to call the lua module, so you can get the JSON of a specific article by going to an url like: http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/User:Bennie/Test?article_name=bear

-- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:58, June 3, 2017 (UTC)

Holy crap, this looks so amazing. I didn't know we could have such things due to security issues.

However, does your lua script perform the parsing itself? There will be a ton of issues when dealing with "edge cases" if you parse it yourself. Like this:

{{ Infobox Creature (space has no meaning here)

or this:

{{{{{1|Infobox Creature}}} (don't think we use this, but it's possible).

If there's a library script that actually invokes the preprocessor to generate a parse tree, this would be perfect. -- Sixorish (talk) 07:37, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, it is pretty cool. I found out the MediaWiki API can also give back parsed pages, so you could perform a GET on this page.

Sixorish, how did you make your API, you didn't use the MediaWiki API, did you? It would be useful if one could access a certain wiki page and only get json in return, to really have a REST endpoint.

The lua script does perform the parsing, indeed. Those edge cases will break it, it's not very robust unfortunately. I have no idea what you mean with preprocessor and parse tree, can you explain? I thought it is most logical to base the json on the raw wikitext. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 10:31, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

I mean to say that it would be so much better to have the MediaWiki engine process a page and give you a structured representation of the data. It's a bit silly to rewrite the MediaWiki parser to interpret wikitext correctly.

My "API" was based on the MediaWiki API. You can generate page contents from the API in batches of 400-500(?), which is super useful for bots. I'm guessing the lua is based on the API as well.

-- Sixorish (talk) 12:36, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

Clickable Images Triggering Creature Ranks

I just made a test with clickable images in DPL lists on List of Creatures by Experience to Hit Points Ratio. Unfortunately, Creature Ranks are triggered by clickable images. Does anyone know a way to circumvent this?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 03:09, August 5, 2017 (UTC)

Just that I understand you, you want to keep the golden star left of the word Abyssador, but not have a golden star appear left of the clickable image of Abyssador? You'll have to add a new CSS rule to MediaWiki:Custom_Scripts/Creature_Ranks/Creature_Ranks.css where you exclude the behaviour when there is an img tag inside an hyperlink tag, when direct child.

Let me know if you need help with that! -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:29, September 16, 2017 (UTC)

Actually, it seems you need a parent selector for this, which is not supported by CSS yet. For now the only solution would be to use javascript. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:13, September 17, 2017 (UTC)

Sorted. I don't know if we need to have that peer reviewed? @Bennie we get around this by exploiting the fact that those images have classes that links don't (.image.image-thumbnail) in order to reset the :before attributes.

-- Sixorish (talk) 14:42, September 17, 2017 (UTC)

Smart. Stupid of me to oversee this simple solution. I don't see a review button which javascript pages like MediaWiki:Common.js have. It doesn't load for me yet, but this may be a caching issue. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:01, September 17, 2017 (UTC)

Nice job, Six!

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 18:48, September 18, 2017 (UTC)

Is it working? I tested this in the console and it seems to work, but the server isn't updating its CSS. Maybe the CSS doesn't get regenerated until some code review is passed? -- Sixorish (talk) 13:40, September 20, 2017 (UTC)

It is not working yet. Shouldn't TibiaWiki:Styles/Creature Ranks.css be edited too?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 19:36, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

I thought the TibiaWiki css page was replaced with the MediaWiki css page, since Wikia wants custom js and css inclusions only from "trusted" places. But I don't know how the inclusion system actually works. It's not as if there is an import statement in MediaWiki:Common.css. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:28, September 22, 2017 (UTC)

@Hunter: You're right, the MediaWiki: CSS page isn't actually being used, the TibiaWiki:Styles/... page needed to be updated. Cheers, -- Sixorish (talk) 08:59, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

If you are sure, can you delete the unused one? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 18:36, September 26, 2017 (UTC)

Items/Objects sold on the Store and their price

I noticed that there's a general lack of information on item's articles regarding to Store availability. For example, if you go on Mana Potion there's no mention that you can buy them on the Store, this information is only available on the Store's page. Same thing applies to Runes, some House Equipment, etc.

There's also a problem when it comes to the TC prices. For example, the Brocade Tapestry says Bought for 50 Tibia Coins gp. Some types such as objects (e.g. Mana Cask) and outfits also don't have a price parameter, which means it's not possible to add this information to their articles using a parameter. On the other hand, Template:Infobox Mount has a price parameter that works very well.

Finally there's the issue of having bundles of items available with different amounts and price, like 125x Mana Potions for 5 TC and 300x Mana Potions for 10 TC. Considering all this I had an idea which I'm not sure could be implemented:

A storeprices parameter would be added to the templates of types that include store products (Item, Outfit, Object, ?). This could be just a value for 1x items, but it wouldn't work for bundles, so perhaps new templates would be useful as its value. Something like:

{{Store Price
 |{{Store Bundle|amount|price}}
 |{{Store Bundle|amount|price}}
}}

For example:

{{Store Price
 |{{Store Bundle|125|5}}
 |{{Store Bundle|300|10}}
}}

This should translate into something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/eDKp5Ql.png

What do you guys think? I'm sorry if it has been discussed before but I didn't see any mention on the archives. If you want I can offer to try creating the templates (I'd just need to read how to do it and where to test it), and of course update the pages after implementation.

Molx (talk) 14:19, August 9, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing it out! I added parameters related to Store prices to Template:Infobox Outfit. I also added a parameter for achievement.

Someone still has to add Store prices parameters to Template:Infobox Item.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:23, August 24, 2017 (UTC)

Problem is, the Store-bought potions might need their very own pages. They don't stack with the regular shop-bought potions and have a flavourtext (as opposed to their shop-bought counterparts). However (to make things more complicated), putting either type of potion under a hotkey will make that hotkey work for both types... -- Wouterboy (talk) 14:22, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Hunter, I see that you also updated all pages already, nice!

The Store potions and runes thing is indeed problematic. But I have the impression they are the same item (.dat wise), with maybe one attribute that gives items from the Store specific properties. Molx (talk) 18:29, August 25, 2017 (UTC)

Update Minimap Floor Files

The Minimap files are protected pages, I assume because they were used by the mapper and hence very sensitive. Now they are used just in the miniature map on NPC pages. They haven't been updated in a while, which leads to NPCs being displayed on the ocean, e.g. Valindara. Could someone please unprotect these files or update the images? Files are:

File:Minimap Floor 0.png, File:Minimap Floor 1.png, File:Minimap Floor 2.png, File:Minimap Floor 3.png, File:Minimap Floor 4.png, File:Minimap Floor 5.png, File:Minimap Floor 6.png, File:Minimap Floor 7.png, File:Minimap Floor 8.png, File:Minimap Floor 9.png, File:Minimap Floor 10.png, File:Minimap Floor 11.png, File:Minimap Floor 12.png, File:Minimap Floor 13.png, File:Minimap Floor 14.png, File:Minimap Floor 15.png

The optimal solution would be making Template:Minimap work with the tibiamaps files, but that doesn't seem to be an easy thing to do.

Molx (talk) 18:07, September 4, 2017 (UTC)

I sent an email to Mathias last night asking him to update our Mapper files, but I don't know when he will have time for this.

If you can, Molx, you can use the TibiaMaps PNG files found here to create the new versions of the files you mentioned. Please, follow the same standards (centering and dimensions / water margins). Oh, and don't forget File:Minimap Floor 7h.png. :-)

Once you have the files, I will unprotect them, then you can upload the new versions and I will protect them again.

Edit: Mathias told me he is going to do it over the weekend.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 22:44, September 13, 2017 (UTC)

I didn't read the edit until it was too late, haha. If you want I can upload them. There is an excessive empty space on the bottom of these images, not sure why. Nevertheless, I kept the same sizes, as requested. If it works as expected you can tell Mathias not to worry about it. :) Molx (talk) 20:23, September 14, 2017 (UTC)

Done, all users are allowed to upload new versions of those files for now.

Edit: The reason for the excessive empty space can be explained by checking Template:Minimap. After exploring new areas from a certain update, there was at least one 1##129##.map file i.e Y = 129 (not on the ground floor, as you can see), that's why we needed to change the Mapper files dimensions.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:14, September 14, 2017 (UTC)

Done, thanks! - Molx (talk) 02:16, September 15, 2017 (UTC)

Social engagement

It looks like Facebook has failed as a platform for social engagement. I would propose three reasons for this:

TibiaWiki is a collaborative community. It's not a social network.
It's too formal to send a message to the TibiaWiki administrators via Facebook.
We don't regularly create content that is worthy of publishing to Facebook.

What we need, I think, is something less formal and more communal than Facebook pages offer. Discord is probably the best bet, because it's a platform for gamers to chat amongst each other. What I was thinking is that we could have channels to discuss different issues, e.g. some where players can discuss the issues they have with TibiaWiki, as well as suggest and collaboratively discuss how the wiki can be improved. The important distinction is that it must be casual, otherwise nobody will use it and it will fail just as our Facebook page has.

I've wanted to post this for a while, because I think it's really important that something is done. The community's #1 priority must be to foster its continued growth, but my experience (of lurking the recent changes) is showing that the community is stagnating. I see the same people editing articles, and this is not sustainable.

-- Sixorish (talk) 15:09, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

i support this.
Vapaus (talk) 15:53, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

As an user who started contributing more actively just recently I think this is a good idea. It would be very good for Wiki if a new way to engage with the community was found. I'm not an avid Discord user but I would at least give it a try. Molx (talk) 16:00, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I agree we should do something. Let's give Discord a try. Wikia tried to make a casual communication feature - Special:Chat - which failed because players need to have a Wikia account for that. We can also create threads in Reddit every now and then.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:13, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

Alright. I've created a server.

Here's a link: https://discord.gg/Mqgz9Mz

Anyone can join, admins will be granted a special role so that they can be identified. Admins will have a public and private chat. -- Sixorish (talk) 07:39, February 2, 2018 (UTC)

I have created TibiaWiki:Discord, mainly to link it in the navigation bar, but also to provide a simple description of the server (please edit it if you want to expand or change something). If we want this to work we must do some sort of "advertising" or at least put it out there I guess. -- Molx (talk) 14:26, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

Status

I am planning to edit all our infobox templates which use the "status" parameter, to let them display the corresponding template at the top of the page, depending on the value of this parameter. So if you put e.g. "status = deprecated" on an item page, it will automatically put the Template:Deprecated at the top of the page.

Afterwards I will let my bot check all wiki pages and remove status-related templates from the top of the page and add the status parameter instead.

There might be some time when you see two templates at the top of the page, one added manually and one by the template, but hopefully this will be only the case for a short timespan. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:44, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

Go ahead, Bennie! It is good that you found some time to do this! :)

As stated in my talk page, I believe there should be a distinction among

Content overwritten or removed from the game; and
Content made unobtainable (e.g items that expired).

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 18:08, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

I searched for "status" on your talk page but didn't exactly find what you mean. Can you elaborate? Anyways, if you want to add more statuses, you can simple add them in Template:Status Messagebox, the code is easy to understand (I think).

So I just went over all templates listed on this page, added support everywhere except not on the following templates:

Template:Infobox Cipsoft Member, their working time parameters kind of informs of their status.
Template:Infobox Fansite, here "rank" is used to inform of their status.
Template:Infobox Geography, but maybe we should? Some areas are event-related (15th tibia anniversary? nostalgia?) and some areas are removed from the game at some point (tutorial island?), although this doesn't happen often. (added support for Nostalgia status=deprecated).
Template:Infobox Hunt, same as geography.
Template:Infobox Street, same as geography.
Template:Infobox Update, we don't use this template yet.

Furthermore, note that for Template:Infobox World, "ingamestatus" is used, which is empty or has the value deprecated.

I will now start up the bot. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 18:42, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

I meant this (quoting myself from User talk:Hunter of Dragoes#Enchanted and Charged weapons):

There is a difference between items that Cip decided to expire like Lottery Ticket (Blank), Trashed Draken Boots and the weapons in question, and items that were overwritten by different items like Amulet of Life and the Old Wands and Rods. In my opinion, there should be different categories and message boxes for them.

A message box for unobtainable content should be created and added to Template:Status Messagebox‎.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 19:11, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

Ok, no problem. Maybe somebody should review the exact message on Template:Unobtainable. It could be reworded to make it more clear. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:22, November 21, 2017 (UTC)

Re: wording -- Deprecated means "removed from the game". If we adopt another status, it should be as generic as possible, e.g. status=obsolete would imply that the entity in question is in the game files but not used. As it stands, all objects (as opposed to items) would be considered as unobtainable, hence the classification does not make any sense.

Re: task -- good job, this needed to be done. IMO the only things that should ever be on an item page is a template and a note at the top of the page for any disambiguation (I wouldn't be against putting that in the templates too). This makes it more consistent, readable and writable because our editors won't have to concern themselves with how to mark a page as deprecated (without, you know, breaking every single page that transcludes it). -- Sixorish (talk) 03:08, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Good job, Bennie! It seems you missed some items with {{deprecated}} such as Old Wands and Rods.

I agree with Sixorish that unobtainable is not the most suited word. Obsolete, however, sounds like the page info might not be accurate even though we can keep it accurate if the obsolete item in question can be found in the Market. But I believe this would be an exception worth of reporting to Cip.

What about TS-only entities that became obsolete vs. TS-only entities that became deprecated? Should we classify both of them as TS-only even when there is a clear difference between them?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 10:35, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Welcome, Molx!

I knew this had to happen some day. Welcome! -- Wouterboy (talk) 15:55, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Welcome, Lee! :)

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 16:03, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you guys! I always liked giving back to the fansites that help us so much, and when I came back to Tibia this year I started to learn a little bit more about how TibiaWiki works and started to admire even more the great work so many people have done here (I mean, reading and writing the Wikia templates and DPL markup/code is harder than any programming language, haha).

I'm looking forward to fix my own wrongly named pages! :P

Molx (talk) 16:51, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Welcome Molx! We don't have an article on how to be an admin, but feel free to play around with all the new buttons and functionality you can now access. Most things can be undone :) On Special:Specialpages you'll see more pages you can access and this project lists some things you can do. And obviously, feel free to ask any questions! -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:13, November 22, 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Bennie. I was actually thinking if such article existed, and I'll play around with the new buttons and special pages. :)

Molx (talk) 16:21, November 23, 2017 (UTC)

Our Taxonomy

1. I have recently finalised my reworking of our taxonomic system. This needed to be done for the following reasons:

1.1 Forced distinctions: The current system includes several distinctions which are not really there. If B is a subspecies of A, it makes no sense to pretend this is not the case and give both A and B their own pages and taxonomic categories (see e.g. Undead Humanoids erroneously excluding Vampires).

1.2 Muddled definitions: Taxonomies with double entries are not taxonomies. However, some of the categories we use have been so badly defined that boundaries fade away and overlaps start occurring, something which in turn leads to double entries. The Thornfire Wolf, for example, is classified both in Canines and in Pyro-Elementals; however, elementals are 'freaks' of nature even in Tibia and can in no way also be classified as anything that actually exists as a fully natural part of the Tibian universe.

1.3 Superstrate categories: Superstrate categories have no place in taxonomies because they operate on one level higher and simply select for a random trait (rather than race) that could occur across several taxonomic categories. This is why I removed categories such as Bosses from our taxonomy; it's obviously a very important page to have on the wiki, but it can only exist outside of our official taxonomy.

2. Some notes on my reworking:

2.1 Single entries: Every single creature can only be part of one category.

2.1.1 This isn't always as straightforward, as certain names and appearances can give off ambiguous signals. This is why we need clear defintions that lead to well-defined boundaries. The name and appearance of a creature such as Demon Skeleton, for example, could be interpreted as hinting towards two different categories. Clearly establishing that The Undead can only ever be animated by necromantic spirit and Demons only ever by demonic spirit, however, will remove all ambiguity and lead to one clear answer.

2.1.2 It's not just about definitions and boundaries, though. Something that is also important is that we view every individual creature holistically and base our decision on all available information regarding that creature. A name such as Demon Parrot might indicate that this creature is, just like the Demon Skeleton, animated by demonic spirit. However, looking into the context we have available will reveal that all Isle of Evil creatures were genetically altered by Doctor Perhaps to serve his evil purposes; Demon Parrots are therefore nothing but evil birds with a menacing name.

2.1.3 The only exceptions to this rule would currently be the Lord of the Elements and Mutated Zalamon, but that's because they're literally multiple creatures in one. (I don't feel that the other Shapeshifters fit the bill because they don't throw away their entire 'identity' every time they shapeshift. This is hard to explain and a lot more subjective than I'd like it to be, but we can work out those specifics together.)

2.2 Balance broad–narrow: Some categories had to be broadened a bit because they didn't taxonomically include all creatures listed on their pages. Narrowing a category, on the other hand, felt appropriate when dealing with taxa containing a great diversity of creatures, especially if those creatures are also very salient (both in users' real-life experience and in-game experience). How salient a creature is in someone's experience can influence their perception of diversity to a great extent. Lumping all molluscs in the same category wouldn't nonplus users as much as lumping all chordates in the same category, for example, even though both Mollusca and Chordata are phyla and therefore on the same taxonomic level; there's simply more perceived diversity within Chordata because those are the most salient animals in people's lives.

2.3 Nomenclature: The nomenclature used for the lower-tier categories is as exact and taxonomically valid as possible. The nomenclature used for the upper-tier categories can't be very exact or taxonomically valid for various reasons. Invertebrates is not in any way a taxonomic category, for example, but convenient nomenclature like that certainly helps give more order to our taxonomy by keeping it from being one big messy amalgam of all lower-tier categories.

3. The system below is what I've come up with while doing my best to keep all of the above in mind.

3.1 Amphibians: No changes.

3.2 Birds: Not that many birds to speak of in Tibia, but since birds are one of the most salient animal realms in real-life (alongside amphibians, fish, mammals, and reptiles), I thought it best to move this category to the upper tier of our two-tiered system and make some very basic distinctions within (all are between the levels of class and order) to determine the lower-tier categories.

3.3 Elementals: This category would now directly represent only the four basic elements of Tibia as well as the Bio-Elementals. Blobs and Elemental Lords dissolve (as they have nothing to do with race), whereas Cryo-Elementals moves in with Hydro-Elementals and Magma-Elementals with Geo-Elementals.

3.4 Fish: See 3.2. Both categories are classes, so the only distinction I made was made relatively high up in the taxonomy tree.

3.5 Humanoids: Giants doesn't select for race and had to be removed. It fell apart into Cyclopes, Frost Giants, and Ogres. Behemoth moved to Bovids, Thundergiant to Geo-Elementals (that's what Cip called it when it was introduced), and I'm quite convinced Yetis are not so much Apes but rather overgrown Chakoyas (they have a similar 'moustache' and also share their bright blue eyes with the Chakoya Tribewarden). Djinn and Fae are part of Immortals. Corym are part of Rodents. Minotaurs are part of Bovids.

3.6 Immortals: Anything that is completely outside of Tibian nature fits in this category. Animated Objects is exactly what it looks like but also eats up our current Machines category as well as most of the Traps category. Demons used to be an upper-tier category, but its lower-tier categories either resulted from forced distinctions or the setting apart of cabals. Magic Entities is an entirely new category that should include all intangible expressions of magic (see e.g. Lost Time or Wild Fury Magic). The Undead suffered from issues similar to those suffered by Demons.

3.7 Mammals: The reason I've included so many family categories here is because of the notion of perceived diversity I mentioned in 2.2. Mustelids had to be broadened to Musteloids because it didn't actually include skunks. I felt Ungulates made use of too basic a distinction, so I split it up into Bovids, Camelids, Cervids, Elephantids, Equids, Rhinocerotids, and Suids. Mutated Mammals doesn't select for race and was removed. Prehumans was the only label (it's an actual term, although not a taxonomic one) I could think of to replace Apes without continuing to imply humans should be part of it. Since Lycanthropes is racially all over the place and doesn't really work as its own category, I've decided to consider them humans who in their animal form only count as animals.

3.8 Invertebrates: Since Mollusca is quite a diverse phylum, I decided to go one level lower and split it up into the classes of Cephalopods and Gastropods. Annelida is less outwardly diverse but also a phylum, so renaming it after the class of Clitellates seemed appropriate (the other two extant Annelida classes are primarily marine and therefore wouldn't make much sense as far as Tibian worms go). With Crustacea being a subphylum and the only crustaceans in Tibia being crabs and relatives, calling them all Malacostracans is a more specific way of grouping them. The phylum of Cnidaria is very diverse and the only Tibian creature it would include is better off in the subphylum of Medusozoans. Hive Born was removed because it doesn't select for race.

3.9 Reptiles: The lowest taxonomic rank that includes all real-life lizards is the Squamata order, but since that label would also include all of the snakes I decided to go with the family of Lacertids (the prototypical group of lizards also known as the true lizards) to group all of our Lizards together. The Wyverns move here because they are nothing but flying lizards according to Tibia lore. Similarly, Hydras and Wyrms are nothing but Dragons.

4. Final notes:

4.1 Non-racial splits: I would definitely encourage certain non-racial splits within categorical pages. This way, links such as Voodoo Cultists can still point to a neatly organised list of all voodoo cultists without the implication they're somehow of a different race than all other humans. However, I don't think this is something that should be overused. Perpetuating the current distinction between Skeletons and the rest of The Undead, for instance, seems rather pointless to me as far as user-friendliness is concerned.

4.2 Parameter improvements: In order to progress towards a state where taxonomic categories and superstrate categories are two completely distinct elements, it would be best to further improve certain parameters to fulfil the functions our taxonomic parameters still sometimes fulfil. Category Event Creatures, for example, still gets its information from the taxonomic parameters on creature pages; it would be a huge improvement in this case if the 'spawntype'-parameter were to be the parameter that would have the ability to assign this category instead.

4.3 NPC applications: This taxonomy can also be applied to NPCs, which means they can simply be included on the same pages creatures use (but as part of a separate list, of course). Also, since I've come to the conclusion during my work on this new taxonomy that The Undead should certainly be treated as a completely separate race (with creatures 'giving up' their former racial identity once undead, so to speak), it would appear that Bennie's second comment on Talk:Adrenius#Race makes a lot more sense than mine! -- Wouterboy (talk) 18:09, November 29, 2017 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for your extensive research on this Wouter!

I have no fundamental problems with implementing this new classification. Some questions which come to mind are:

Is it really necessary to make such extensive use of latin names? Or are these all English names I simply don't know? Anyways, if there are more simple English names (see [wikipedia Ursidae simply redirects to Bear) I would prefer them over latin ones, for several reasons:
- Then I won't have to look it up;
- It is very likely the above counts for other people as well, I think a lot of people visiting our wiki are not taxonomy experts;
- It therefore keeps our wiki more accessible.

However, this is not a deal breaker, I can also see reasons to actually use those latin names, to be more precise and have no ambiguity what the boundaries of the category are.

Reading between the lines, it seems you used our current 2-tiered system as a given starting point. In my opinion, this was an arbitrary choice, it is perfectly fine to change this to a 3-tiered system or even more, if that would make more sense. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this.

Regarding "parameter improvement", that is certainly feasible. We have the tooling to change templates and mass-edit pages, so if you have some concrete propositions we can execute them. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:01, November 29, 2017 (UTC)

Good job, Wouterboy!

I had the same thoughts as Bennie concerning the nomenclature and the possibility of third tiers when suited (e.g for humans).

I had a feeling that Cip based on our current taxonomy to classify monsters in Cyclopedia's Bestiary. We should create a new parameter for that different classification and create pages for those classes (redirect them to the new taxonomy pages?).

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 19:37, November 29, 2017 (UTC)

I'm very well aware that the nomenclature used can be very alienating to many of our users. However, this is simply the language of taxonomy and taxonomy is an exact matter. In your example, Ursids and Bears can only be used fully interchangeably because both can only refer to the family of bears. If you were to replace e.g. Anurans with Frogs, though, you'll be inviting ambiguity, as Frogs can refer both to the order Anura as well as to any family of frogs. A statement such as “Toads are frogs.” can therefore be both right and wrong depending on what taxon you are referring to exactly. No such ambiguity is possible when using the official scientific terminology, as any term can refer to one taxon only. Moreover, many such taxa don't even have a colloquial English equivalent.
I have indeed considered going from a two-tier system to a three-tier system, but I didn't think that would make any more sense. I feel that doing that would make our taxonomy too cluttered and cumbersome. Finding the right broad–narrow balance for our lower-tier categories and loosely organising them within convenient upper-tier categories is the ideal system for this wiki in my opinion.
My first concrete proposition regarding parameter improvements would be the one I mentioned in 4.2. (By extension, a similar parameter could be used for Quest Items/Quest Objects, since those categories are also superstrate and shouldn't be used to actually classify items and objects. There's no point in implementing something like that without first uniting the two infoboxes, though.)
Hunter, only sometimes making use of a third tier would simply be inconsistent. Moreover, this idea would literally be impossible to apply to your example, since all current humans belong to the subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens and there's simply no way of going lower than that. That's the reason I'm a supporter of the non-racial splits I mentioned in 4.1. Anyone looking for the Voodoo Cultists, for example, would still be able to find all of them together under their own heading and in their own list on the Humans page through a Voodoo Cultists redirect that points to Humans#Voodoo Cultists.
We should indeed create a parameter for what bestiary class a creature falls into, but I don't think we should create pages for those classes. That would make it seem as if we're using two competing taxonomies at the same time, which would only confuse users. I think it would be best if we use Bestiary Creature Classes to list all creatures by their bestiary entry in collapsible lists and have the parameter link to and automatically open the right list, e.g. bestiaryclass = aquatic would link to and automatically open the list for Bestiary Creature Classes#Aquatic. -- Wouterboy (talk) 18:00, December 1, 2017 (UTC)

As far as the latter part of point 4 is concerned, I've already thought of a better solution. It would actually make more sense to retain the Voodoo Cultists page (and similar pages) as it is (but outside of our taxonomy), because even though it doesn't have anything to do with race, it's still concerned with a coherent group of creatures that 'belong' together. This way we won't have to break the DPL on taxonomy pages to create separate lists specifically for such groups. We could even create an entirely new parameter that's concerned with non-racial grouping (so it wouldn't function as a third tier of our taxonomy but rather be completely independent of it) that would only be applied where appropriate and which would give the user a bit more creature context beyond race. -- Wouterboy (talk) 12:07, December 2, 2017 (UTC)

Thumbs up for non-racial groups. :)

Should we make those groups for all lower tier classes listed in Template:Creature Types that are not going to be part of the new taxonomy?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 13:51, December 2, 2017 (UTC)

We should for many of them, yes. Some of them don't fit the bill, though. Take for example Skeletons. It's just a mishmash of undead creatures that happen to have a certain aspect of their appearance in common; they don't actually form a specific 'clan' like the Voodoo Cultists do and are therefore not similar to one another in a way that matters, i.e. the connection this page establishes between the creatures is completely random and not useful to our users. The Voodoo Cultists page, on the other hand, clearly deals with creatures that 'belong' together and can be useful to our users in finding out what other creatures can generally be found in e.g. an Acolyte of the Cult's vicinity. The The Ruthless Seven page can be useful because it deals with a connection that was made for us by Cipsoft themselves (otherwise we wouldn't have had any reason to group them together in the first place), and so on. -- Wouterboy (talk) 14:02, December 3, 2017 (UTC)

I think our system as well as yours both seem to make unnecessary resemblance to some real-world categorization. Taxonomic categorizations rely on evolutionary or genetic characteristics which are obviously out of scope for a fantasy game. CipSoft can invent a new species that clearly overlaps two categories. CipSoft can implement, say, an amphibian/bird hybrid. Hence, your system is not robust; it does not resist the addition of hybrid species. I feel like a hierarchical structure is inappropriate for this reason; it assumes a well-defined structure that does not exist because Tibia does not conform to the laws of nature. How can we infer about creatures in a fantasy setting based on our understanding of a real world? We can't. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:24, December 4, 2017 (UTC)

I see your point, but most of the time we can in fact infer about Tibian creatures based on our understanding of the real world because Tibia's foundation is the real world. Tibia therefore mostly does conform to the laws of nature and a somewhat well-defined structure therefore does exist. Refusing to acknowledge Tibia's real-life foundations would mean to misrepresent the game, something which just seems gratuitously deceitful to me. CipSoft used these foundations as their starting point and simply remoulded them to allow for the inclusion of fantasy creatures, and we can do exactly the same with our taxonomy by using real-life scientific classification as our starting point and then remoulding that.

As far as hybrid species are concerned, they already exist: we have the Rorc, the Forest Fury, Lycanthropes, etc. (and to respond to your amphibian/bird hybrid example: any bird able to breathe through its skin can scientifically speaking never be considered a bird, so it wouldn't cause us any problems exactly because our taxonomy uses real-life scientific classification as its foundation). I've considered such cases and I personally think they should only be classified as the species they are primarily, i.e. as the one species that defines them most: Rorcs and Forest Furies are in essence still Orcs and Elves respectively despite their mutations, whereas the Lycanthropes in their particular state are more beast than man and therefore better classified as animals. Using such self-dictated guidelines to circumvent any overlaps we might encounter in the fantasy department in order to make our taxonomy more robust seems like a rational thing to do, especially since I reckon overlaps are always going to be hard to avoid regardless of whatever taxonomic system we might be using. -- Wouterboy (talk) 23:44, December 4, 2017 (UTC)

You have solid arguments, although it very obviously introduces subjectivity in the decision-making process when overlapping species are added. However, the usefulness of either system is inhibited by the fact that few of our users actually care for taxonomic classification, because it doesn't help them to decide what to hunt or what drops a particular item. Thus, a hierarchical classification is mostly a "nice to have" feature. I would be accepting of your suggestion under the expectation that none of our internal systems rely on such a classification and the taxonomy is not designed around in-game features. For example, The Colours of Magic has "party animals" and "spellcaster" creatures to which a reward applies. Our classification should be totally independent of any such systems (because we cannot regulate the game mechanics). -- Sixorish (talk) 08:16, December 5, 2017 (UTC)

Strictly adhering to a single-entry system indeed adds a bit of subjectivity into the mix regarding hybrids, but most of the time one part of a hybrid creature does clearly tend to manifest itself more prominently and crucially than the other, meaning that the presupposition of some sort of instinctive consensus is not necessarily an absolutely laughable substitute for rationality. For instance, I think most people would agree that the fact that the Rorc was originally a purebred Orc should have more bearing on its classification than the Terror Bird part that's there solely as a result of mutation.

You're also right in saying that a taxonomy is mostly a nice-to-have feature most users won't really care about, but at the same time I do feel a game-based wiki such as ours has the responsibility to create and maintain classification systems encompassing all members of a particular gameplay class (whether it be Creatures, or Items, or what have you) to allow anyone access to all members of any such class at once through the use of just one neatly organised hub.

I strived to make our new creature classification system as taxonomically sound as possible, which is why I purposely avoided incorporating anything into it that has to do with the 'role' a particular creature might have been assigned in-game. All that matters is what the creature itself really is in isolation, i.e. without paying regard to any external gameplay-related noise. -- Wouterboy (talk) 00:32, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Calculators not loading

Hey guys, I noticed that the page Calculators is not working. It keeps loading indefinitely. I tested it on 5 different browsers (Windows 10) and they all have Javascript enabled. Can anyone take a look at it?

Tyrodus Zeth (talk) 17:17, January 16, 2018 (UTC)

As you can read in its talk page, it works on Firefox when using Monobook skin. I'll ask Wikia / FANDOM to have a look at it and try to fix it.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:19, January 16, 2018 (UTC)

Lists filtering out Tibia History

Hey guys,

I've noticed a lot of our DPL lists are excluding Category:Tibia History still after the integration of history information in the main pages. This means that a lot of lists are potentially incomplete. If a DPL list is not showing something, this is most likely the problem. -- Sixorish (talk) 09:40, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Good point, I will (soon) do a wiki-wide search on usage of this category in dpl lists and remove them if necessary. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 18:48, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Oh wait, stupid me, I already did this in 2016 as I myself listed here. However, the case on Calculators was "|notcategory=Tibia History" (without a space between the pipe and notcategory). I will look for all variations, with or without spaces. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:51, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

There was a space between the pipe and notcategory in Mounts which was fixed two days ago. Perhaps your bot account couldn't fix it because the page is protected.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 21:28, January 31, 2018 (UTC)

Probably true, my bot does not have admin rights (I don't want it to accidentally delete stuff). -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:04, February 1, 2018 (UTC)

I ran my bot but did not find any more cases which need to be fixed. Case closed. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:40, February 3, 2018 (UTC)

Owners of "rare" items in articles

When wiki started many years ago, the idea behind "rare items" was much different then what it is today. There were probably only two dozen rare items, including those from very old times (e.g. Crown) and some like the Pharaoh Rares. These days, with all the new bosses and items that are only dropped by one or two of them, we have dozens of items which are rare, but at the same time are probably unknown by the vast majority of players. To add to that, we have a considerable number of fansite/contest/special items that are only given by CipSoft (or with their permission). While many of these are indeed rare (like some Fansite Items), others have been given out so many times that they are not really rare (for example the Silver Trophy of Excellence, I have one and it's not listed :>).

Keeping track of these has proved to be a challenge, and these days we don't even know in which server many of these rares are or if they still exist at all. It's not hard to click an owner name in an item's article and find out the character doesn't even exist anymore (deleted or name changed). So I propose that we should be more strict and remove many of the player's name references from pages in order to keep them cleaner and remove content that is outdated and hard/impossible to maintain.

1. An item can have its owners* listed only if the item was somewhat publicly given by CipSoft or by Supported/Promoted fansite.

Items (or groups) of items that fall into this category are:

Fansite Items (not all Contest Prizes)
Special gifts given by CipSoft for various reasons (Dragon Scale Legs, Laurel Wreath, Miniature House, Council Certificate)

The reason I used somewhat is that I can think of some exceptions to this publicity rule. For example, Gamemaster Dolls were not announced, but were given to a very specific group of players (we don't have that list though). The same thing can be said about Council Certificates. The Laurel Wreaths were not announced on Tibia.com, but they were announced during a meeting with many different tutors that witnessed it.

Some items, despite the fact that they were given by CipSoft or a Fansite, are either relatively common or their receivers were not announced, meaning tracking them is impossible. I think we should remove lists from these items and, when possible, link to the news where the winners were announced (for example CM Tokens). For example:

Contest Prizes given by CipSoft, such as Arcane Insignia and CM Token.
Contest Prizes given by Fansites: Silver Trophy of Excellence and Bronze Trophy of Excellence.
The Famous Golden Bugs, there are too many of them to count or track, and current list is completely outdated.

Note: even though we say owners, it would be preferred if we only mentioned players who received the items, since all of them are passive of being traded. Also, we can never say for sure if other players have received one copy of the item. Thus, it would be more accurate to mention those are known receivers. For example: Players known to have received a Heavily Bound Book are.... The Heavily Bound Book article actually have some good examples of how we can add the information while not being at risk of being outdated due to trades.

2. Items that are just rare loots should not have their owners listed, since they are more likely to be traded, obtained again or even completely lose the rarity status. For example:

3. Important historical information about some items can and should be kept, of course. Most Tibians are interested and like to have a source on the story behind the Magic Longsword, for instance. A drawn must be line, however, in order for us to define what is history and what isn't. The very Magic Longsword page has conflicting information regarding its current owner. I would personally suggest the removal of the Current Location section and the Moises~ paragraph, but that is up for debate of course. Other items in a similar situation:

Crown
Blessed Shield
Rose Shield
Horned Helmet
The majority of these old-Antica rares.

These changes would require some manual searches, and maybe we could add a short summary of the final rules to TibiaWiki:Policy. Then we would have to keep an eye out for new edits of this kind. Please let me know what you think of these new rules suggestion and of course feel free to suggest some changes as I may have overlooked something important.

Molx (talk) 18:49, February 9, 2018 (UTC)

These seem some well-thought rules Molx, I can only agree with them. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:06, February 9, 2018 (UTC)

I agree with you, Molx. What should we do with rare item lists on game world articles?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 20:36, February 9, 2018 (UTC)

Yea i agree with you as well. this is a good change to be made. some of those pages have lists that are outdated, way too long and irrelevant,it just clutters the information (like Yellow Rose for example).
maybe that information should also be in a separate place, similar to a quest spoiler or a different page altogether like /Transcripts page, what do you think?
as to rares on game world articles, and in general i think we should make the distinction between looted or won in a contest to owns (on a game world, first person who looted is a part of the server's history) and remove owners of items that aren't impossibly rare (like Crown,The Horned Fox etc)
Vapaus (talk) 11:48, February 10, 2018 (UTC)

> maybe that information should also be in a separate place, similar to a quest spoiler or a different page altogether like /Transcripts page, what do you think?

For the items that keep their "lists" it may be a good idea, but I'm not sure to be honest. In many cases the list would be too small and a dedicated page would look odd. If the list is so big that it is cluttering the main page, then perhaps it shouldn't be there at all. One exception is the Heavily Bound Book since its records are detailed for obvious reasons.

I haven't thought about World pages when I first wrote this, but I guess the same problems apply: we can't keep track. If we were only to mention prize items, it wouldn't make any sense, receiving a contest prize is the player's merit, not the game world's (unlike being the first one to defeat a hard boss, for example). And let's be fair: currently, many world pages are very very outdated, which is the result of so many worlds, world changes, character transfers and our own, of course. If we barely manage to update the first characters to reach this or that level, I don't think we would succeed in maintaining rare items, and if we decide to keep the records of any items, it would mean a second page (or group of pages) to update when necessary. The only world with any relevance in terms of rare items is Antica due to the fact that most of them originated from this world when CipSoft wasn't so professional and introduced rare items somewhat often. And even so, despite the concentration of rare items being larger there, the world lost its unique status long ago with character world transfers.

TL;DR: I suggest removing all item owners from game world pages. We keep the relevant information only on item's pages.

Molx (talk) 17:32, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Standardizing Appearences

There are 4 types of Appearances in Tibia:

Objects: Items, Objects and Corpses
Outfits: Character's Outfits as well as all creatures' outfits
Effects: Effects
Missiles: Also Effects

I think TibiaWiki's pages should reflect how the appearences are organized by CipSoft, but currently they are not, as seen above. I dream of the day when we will not have both Template:Infobox Item and Template:Infobox Object anymore, but that will obviously be a huge task and require a lot of bot-jobs I can't handle. I can, however, manually change the Missiles to Template:Infobox Missile.

I was thinking about first copying the template, and then adding the missileid parameter (or just id). We can add one to Effects as well. This should also help us add all the Effects/Missiles we are missing (there are 191 + 59 of them, we only have 112). Any objections or suggestions?

Molx (talk) 01:31, May 22, 2018 (UTC)

No objections. Go ahead! :)

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 11:17, May 22, 2018 (UTC)

When I added the tibia missiles as tibiawiki effects I did this because I thought there is no real difference. Of course it is totally fine to split them off now. Alternatively you could let them keep using the same template but add a distinguishing parameter called "type" or something similar.

Adding ids is a really good idea, please go ahead, we should add this to all pages which already have an id in tibia. I would go for "missileid" and not just "id", since this is similar to Infobox Item where we have "itemid".

If you need a bot to run any bulk edits, just let me know. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:48, May 22, 2018 (UTC)

Loot Statistics

Hmm, I was just thinking... wouldn't it make more sense for the loot statistics pages to be creature sub-pages? So Rat/Loot Statistics rather than Loot Statistics:Rat? -- Wouterboy (talk) 10:58, April 5, 2019 (UTC)

I think that having those in a specific namespace has its advantages. For example, we can see in a User's edit count how much of his/hers contribution was loot statistics, which is an easy way to get your total count of edits up. We have users with thousands of edits but only a few that weren't statistics. For example, 32% of my Edit Count is actually from statistics, 4,769 out of 14,769.

It also makes advanced searching easier since we can exclude the statistics.

Molx (talk) 13:19, April 5, 2019 (UTC)

When we first introduced the system of Loot Statistics, we had reasons to make a separate namespace, one of them being the ability to filter away loot statistics edits from the recent changes page, which is only possible with a separate namespace. Interesting to note, is this wasn't the case from the start (see some red links here. You could argue that these reasons are not very relevant anymore, but I think it would be hard to argue that the current situation requires for a massive overhaul (moving all loot pages). -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:51, April 6, 2019 (UTC)

Very interesting information, and good reasoning. I guess it's just one of those changes that would be very satisfying but simply less practical than the alternative. -- Wouterboy (talk) 11:16, April 6, 2019 (UTC)

Loot from Cow

I edited items looted from Cow that are sellable to Yasir. Now somebody has to add them to Yasir list, I can't do this . Maybe there are other items from the event Orcsoberfest that needs to be added. Zvezdiica (talk) 23:26, January 18, 2020 (UTC)

I did that, thanks for your contribution. Indeed there are some items and other info still missing from this event, part of it we'll only be able to gather next time the event happens. -- Molx (talk) 05:15, January 19, 2020 (UTC)

Creature Types of Tibia

Amphibians	Anurans Njey Quara Urodelans

Birds	Aequorlitornithes Columbavians Galloanseres Inopinavians

Elementals	Bio- Electro- Geo- Hydro- Pyro-

Fish	Actinopterygians Chondrichthians

Humanoids	Astral Shapers Chakoyas Cyclopes Dwarves Dworcs Elves Frost Giants Gnomes Goblins Ogres Orclopses Orcs Trolls

Immortals	Animated Objects Demons Djinn Fae Magic Entities The Undead

Invertebrates	Arachnids Bonelords Cephalopods Clitellates Gastropods Insects Malacostracans Medusozoans Myriapods

Mammals	Bovids Camelids Canids Cervids Chiropterans Elephantids Equids Eulipotyphlans Felids Humans Hyaenids Lagomorphs Musteloids Prehumans Rhinocerotids Rodents Suids Ursids

Reptiles	Crocodilians Dragons Draken Lacertids Serpents Testudinians

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{Archives|count=5
+ |Aug08-Oct08
-<table width="100%"><tr><td>__TOC__</td><td><table align="right" width="30"><tr>
+ |Oct08-Jul09
-<td valign="top" align="right" style="width:30; border:1px solid #000dbc; background-color:#cfd2ff;">'''Archives:'''<br/>[[Talk:Administrator Team/Archive 1|Aug08-Oct08]]<br/>[[Talk:Administrator Team/Archive 2|Oct08-Jul09]]<br/>[[Talk:Administrator Team/Archive 3|Jul09-May12]]</td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
+ |Jul09-May12
+ |Jun12-Jan15
+ |Jan15-Jul16
+}}
 <inputbox>
@@ Line 16: / Line 20: @@
 Feel free to discuss things among admins. Ask things to admins, propose new ideas etc. Reporting a vandal can also be perfectly done here, but is not really the intention of this page. Also note that this page doesn't have the same function as [[TibiaWiki talk:Community Portal]].
 ----
+__TOC__
+== History section on content pages ==
-== Merging vote ==
+Hey guys. I'd like your opinion on adding a history section to pages. Currently we link to history subpages. Under the new system the subpages would stay for ease of editing but they would be included on the pages. The format of these history pages would be very different. We would need a standard for formatting them.
-Please state your opinion [[Talk:Tomes_of_Knowledge_Quest/Spoiler#Merging|here]].
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 07:09, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
-----
+I have a working example of what I'd like to see: [[A Sweaty Cyclops]]. Notable changes:
-== Problem with a template ==
+* History template gone.
+* Formatting: bullet points for core changes and indenting for elaboration.
-hey, there is a problem with '''{{#dpl: | mode=userformat''' template thing, it's been like that for about two days. is there anything you can do or is it a problem of wikia?<br/>[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
+* Headings: no more "Origin", "Ice protection" etc. headings; the headings [[Pair of Earmuffs/History|currently describe the changes]] (what), but they should describe the version (when). If [[Pair of Earmuffs]] receives another ice protection adjustment where would that go? Versions that introduce changes to an item should have a unique header.
-----
+Of course this would be a long-term change. All history pages would need to be adjusted. The sooner we agree on a format the sooner we can get it done.
-I saw the problem since yesterday, it is related to wikia updating mediawiki software, I asked [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:TOR/MediaWiki_Upgrade here], they will fix it but I think it may take some time.
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 17:27, June 26, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:49, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+I think we can all agree the history pages didn't work out what was intended when the format was created in the first page. The idea to have an origin for every history page wasn't really usable, either "introduced in update xx" (but we have implemented for this). Only a few pages have interesting origin stories.
-thanks for the fast reply, it's just making alot of pages obslete (quests, bosses, creatures etc) so i thought id ask about it<br/>
-[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
+So I agree a change is needed. Moving the content to the main articles seems reasonable, given that most history pages are very short right now, it saves a click if you don't have to navigate to them. I would suggest just completely moving their content instead of including (this would increase speed? or it doesn't matter after it's cached?).
-== Another problem. ==
+It's a big project indeed, if every edit would be needed to be done manually. But I agree it's needed. I agree with your format, although I can imagine the bullet point list looks a little technical to most people.
-I just moved some images to the correct names and noticed that half the options at the top were not there. I had to edit the file pages before links like "rename", "delete" and "history" appeared. The rename page also seems to be changing the odd time to a different renaming page. Is this also something to do with the MediaWiki upgrade? Because it looks to me like we have already been moved so these issues shouldn't arise. [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] 17:22, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:00, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+We should always think on what is the best for our visitors to read and to edit. Thus, moving the history to the content page seems the best option.<br />
-They are testing when version is 1.9 or so here [[Special:Version]]. But we might have issues related to mediawiki cache because of these tests and version changes. Yesterday the site had issues with main site script with 3 computers here, until I visited http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/-?action=purge to purge the script. You might try to purge the pages that have problems, if that doesn't work I would say we wait a bit, but if it is something needed maybe report it on [[Special:Contact]].
+Thanks Six for putting time and energy on this!
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] 22:00, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-So if it says 1.9 on [[Special:Version]] then it means they are testing? I am sure it said 1.9 there yesterday, which was when I mainly had strange issues with the renaming link and parts on RecentChanges. If that's the case then the disappearing links must have something to do with it. If I get it again I'll take some screenshots but the links came back after an edit to the file pages. Was starting to think I am losing my mind! [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] 00:03, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
-== Pet pig and little pig ==
-[[Little Pig]] and [[Pet Pig]] is this a mistake? (the one the npc sells is little pig, which is the one you get for the digging task)
-<br/>[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 02:22, May 28, 2015 (UTC)
 ----
+Just to follow up on this old discussion, currently I'm working on history pages. What would you think is better:
-You can see [[Pet Pig]] in the market, it expires after 6 minutes, weighs 6 oz and its sprite doesn't move the legs, but it blinks. Since there are two different sprites for that pig, I assumed that Little Pig had the wrong sprite on the wiki and I changed it too.
+#History section is always shown, if no history is available this is displayed in italic text;
+#History section is hidden by default, but is displayed if parameter exists.
+The advantage of the first option is editors know they can add history on pages which don't have it, but visitors might be annoyed by the message there is no history on 90% of our pages.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> -  20:02, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:13, August 24, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+I'd go for the second option because of exactly what you said.
-Sprites might be different, they have like 6 sprite entries and one of them is separate from the others.
-And the 6 minute thing I am pretty certain does NOT mean they disappear. On the TS they had this as well but there were pigs on the floor for days.
-If you look in the market for [[Crystal Pedestal]] you'll find that they expire after 9 seconds. They don't disappear. I am pretty sure they work in the same way. It just means they change item IDs. Try trading the pig for a while (maybe 6 mins, but not sure exactly when you get this '6 min pig' so maybe longer) I suspect the trade will automatically close after a few mins. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 22:11, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:15, September 12, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+Ok, this has been implemented in all relevant infobox templates. Only some item history subpages need to be merged with their main item page.
-You might be right, Sixorish. That might be a temporary sprite that lasts 6 minutes after you use the pet pig's standard ID, as it is with some dolls.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:00, September 27, 2016 (UTC)
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> -  18:36, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
-== Sprites Needed ==
-Anyone can upload sprites for the [[Insectoid Monolith]] and [[Hive Monolith]] pages? Thanks<br />&raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 18:17, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+All remaining pages using [[Template:History]] have been merged.
-I uploaded items id 14074 and 14075, not sure if they are correct, feel free to delete them if they aren't.
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 05:44, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 15:08, October 14, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
-Thanks, those sprites are important for the war vs hive quest :p &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 15:09, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
+== New item parameters ==
-== About Ball on Chains, Shovel (Standing) and some other items/or/objects ==
+Hey guys,
-i've noticed that [[Shovel (Standing)]] was using an item template aswell as the [[Ball on Chains]] (both items share attributes and purpose ingame as decorative pieces around special areas), i think they should be using the object template along with other similar items that i didn't find on wiki after small search trough items/object categories (the furniture from [[Rottin Wood]]s house or mushroom table and similar items that can be moved but not picked) possible under '''Movable Objects'''? also a note that a few furniture packages sprites are missing (after a brief look on the category)
-<br/>share your thoughts,<br/>
-[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
+I am working on the [[Updates/10.94]] weapons. This is a huge project, there are 120 wiki pages needed, from which only one third are created up till now. There is something else as well, I wanted to add six new parameters to [[Template:Infobox Item]]:
-----
+*crithit_ch
-By the current definition of object, if something is ''movable'', it's not an object (see [[objects]]). That's the reason why the items you mentioned are considered ''not-pickupable items''.<br />
+*critextra_dmg
-But it was always hard to fill in some parameters of [[Template:Infobox Item]] like ''weight'', ''droppedby'', ''buyfrom'' and ''sellto'' for those items. There was never a guideline for them. If you can't pick it up, you can't put it in a container and you can't trade it, those fields are meaningless. We definitely should use other infobox template, and I don't foresee problems if we adapt [[Template:Infobox Object]] to be used in those articles. We could create a ''movable'' parameter. Also, we would have to create a ''destructible'' parameter (for objects) since some items which use such parameter would be considered objects. And we would have to change the definition of object on [[Objects]] page and, maybe, make the definition of item clearer on [[Items]] page.
+*manaleech_ch
-By the way, I just noticed that [[Ornamented Stone Table]] is already using infobox object.
+*manaleech_am
+*hpleech_ch
+*hpleech_am
+This will have the advantage to query for these properties with DPL, to have them in separate table columns and not everything grouped in the ''attributes'' column. Like previously discussed, this should also be done with all the damage modifies like "axe fighting + 1". Any objections or thoughts?
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> -  23:01, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:19, August 24, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+Yes, go for it! As [[Talk:Administrator Team/Archive 5#Revamp - Template:Infobox Item|I stated last year]], I believe skill and speed modifiers should also have their own individual parameters.<br />
-Don't forget: [[Football]] needs and uses buyfrom/npcprice, they aren't meaningless (but they aren't normal trades either, you have to talk to buy them). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 23:09, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
+Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:24, September 12, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+Ok, I implemented the six new parameters and made separate DPL templates to list them. I will start adding new parameters soon and include skill and speed modifiers as well.
-You're right, I had forgotten [[Football]] and [[Heavy Ball]]. Even so, I don't see the lack of those parameters as a problem. We can always use the ''notes'' field.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:01, September 27, 2016 (UTC)
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> -  23:59, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
-== About : Flower Pots ==
-i noticed that on the [[Flower Pot]] page some of the sprites names are wrong, and also after the latest update there are 2 sets of flower:<br/>
-* The ones you normally water and can be dryed out if not waterd
-* fully grown ones you used [[Ice Flower Seeds]] on
-the second set are the ones shown on market, should they all get diffrent pages?<br/>
-[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
 ----
-I think that evert flower should have their page. They are different items (like rusty armors) and also they have different % of rarity and value. &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 15:09, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
-== Spoiler Tags ==
-In the discussion about quest spoilers ([[Talk:Quests#Spoilers and Wikis|here]]) i mentioned the need of guidelines about quest spoilers because people use spoilers tags almost for everything without following any standard.
+== Node-count limit ==
-There was the example about [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Rashid?oldid=440223 Rashid] where people put spoilers in the locations and it was like this for years. But there are a lot of examples:
+Does anyone know how to extend the node-count limit or how to circumvent it?
-* [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Mystic_Turban?oldid=433885|Mystic Turban]: It have twice the same message about trading 1 with irmana, one outside spoiler box and another inside.
-* [[Mini World Changes]]: This page have a table of contents with the achievement you win for every MWC. However, in the achievements page that information its considered a spoiler.
-* And in the [[World Changes]] the table of contents doesn't include the achievements.
-* Also, in every quest page, the rewards are visible to anyone, for example [[The Pits of Inferno Quest]]. But if you check any rewards page, like [[Soft Boots]] you will find UNDER a spoiler box that is obtainable through PoI quest. This is a contradiction.
-* And in the same [[Soft Boots]] page the information about repairing soft boots its under quest spoiler box.
-* Same with [[World Changes]] rewards. It says WITHOUT any spoiler box that you can obtain a slug drug through the feverish change, but in the [[Slug Drug]] page it says the same UNDER a spoiler box.
-* Also, the pages about the gnomish vouchers ([http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Gnomish_Voucher_Type_CA1?oldid=448866|type CA1]) had quest spoilers (that i removed), but it made me ask myself, should I remove the spoilers on this page? or add spoiler boxes to all the items that can be obtained through minor tokens?
+Affected pages:
-I found one page with some "guidelines": [[Quest Spoiling]]. But according to that page quest rewards must be UNDER quest spoilers (this is not followed in 1 single quest page) and even the route to mintwallin and monsters locations are spoilers so i can't rely in this page.
+* <s>[[Physical Damage/Neutral]]</s>
+* <s>[[Holy Damage/Neutral]]</s>
+* <s>[[Creature Products by NPC Price and Price to Weight Ratio]]</s>
+* <s>[[List of Creatures by Experience to Hit Points Ratio]]</s>
+* [[Loot/Pits of Inferno‎]]
+* [[Loot/Foreigner Quarter‎]]
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:47, September 12, 2016 (UTC)
-Without proper guidelines i wonder things like: Should i delete spoiler tags in the achievements page? or i should delete the achievements column in the mini worlds change page? The rewards in quest pages should be put under spoilers? or we should remove spoiler tags in rewards pages? etc
+:It's called [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Template limits#Preprocessor node count|preprocessor node count]]. Kirkburn said ''this is not something we are likely to be able to raise (at least in the short term)'' and suggested us to ''look into ways to reduce the complexity of the page - perhaps by splitting it into more pages, or reducing the number of template calls it makes''.
-&raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 15:09, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
+:How can we reduce the number of template calls? Should we remove Loot and Dropped By columns from those pages (and all similar pages in order to keep the standards)?
+:[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 16:01, September 17, 2016 (UTC)
+::Seems to work, tested on [[Physical Damage/Neutral]]. I don't know what columns are most important to keep.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:49, September 17, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+Two more pages added to the list. By the way, shouldn't there be a ''Loot'' namespace for [[:Category:Loot Pages|such pages]]?
-You're right, we should have guidelines for spoiler tags.<br />
-Do you want to start proposing guidelines, then we can discuss changes? If you don't, please, somebody else start it.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> -  00:34, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 09:14, September 28, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+Re: namespace - No way. We're limited in the number of custom namespaces we can have (2 I think). Besides, these Loot pages are outdated and should probably be removed completely since they create huge maintenance jobs (if a creature's loot table is modified, all loot pages with that creature have to be updated) and they're seldom used (probably because they aren't up to date?). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 16:20, November 19, 2016 (UTC)
-I would suggest to stick to the fansite guidelines given by cipsoft: ''"Complete quest solutions need to be marked with a disclaimer that warns players that quests are spoiled in the following sections"'''.
+----
+Just tuning in to say that I agree with Six regarding the pointlessness of those loot pages. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 17:04, November 19, 2016 (UTC)
+== Renaming category for NPCs ==
-So only include spoiler warnings in complete quest solutions (world changes and probably achievements too) and that's all. No spoiler warnings in NPCs or items pages. In my opinion, it doesnt benefit to anyone spoiler warnings like in [[Life Crystal]] page where the info about changing one for 1 life ring it's under spoiler.
+Hey all,
-So my proposal is: Spoiler warnings only in complete quest, MW, MWC and achievements solutions. Avoid spoiler warnings in NPC and items pages unless it contains solutions to quests, MW, MWC and achievs. &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 04:47, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
+I plan to rename the category: [[:Category:NPCs in Tibia]] to [[:Category:NPCs]], which is more logical. Are there any objections to abstain from doing so?
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 12:08, November 27, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+I believe [[:Category:NPCs in Tibia]] is meant to be applied only to individual NPCs and [[:Category:NPCs]] is meant to apply only to groups of them. However, the latter is barely used for its intended purpose, as you can see from the low amount of pages that are listed under it. The question you should ask yourself is whether this special group-sorting category is even necessary, especially given the fact that categories such as [[:Category:NPC Locations]] and [[:Category: NPC Occupations]] have taken over this role for a large part. Based on the outcome of those ponderings you can then decide either to carry out the move or to abandon it. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 16:21, November 27, 2016 (UTC)
-The community already voted that they wanted spoiler warnings, I'm not sure they would appreciate us removing them. I think it should be changed, but not so drastically. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:45, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Ok, I think I made all necessary arrangements to do the change. Soon I will let my bot crawl over all wiki pages to do this search-and-replace. Hopefully this will catch them all and break nothing.
-Different things, that was about quest spoilers and i'm talking about all the other pages. Anyway, whatever the decision is, it should be standarized, that is my request.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:19, November 27, 2016 (UTC)
+----
+== [[Template:Infobox Item]] and [[Imbuing]] ==
+I'd like to propose the removal of the parameter <code>imbuable</code> from the item template. Items are bound by the functional dependency imbuement &rarr; imbuable; an item is imbuable if and only if imbuement > 0. This parameter is not declared on non-imbuable items. Thus, we're storing the same information (imbuable) twice. While at it, I would also like to propose the <code>imbuement</code> parameter be renamed to imbueslots (preferred) or imbuements (plural).
+Any objections to this? (Bennie, if you have time, I could use the service of your bot for this)
-Rewards are spoilers? ok, let's hide from all pages. Items that you can exchange like mystic turban is spoiler too? lets hide in all pages with items that can be exchanged, etc.<br />
-&raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 05:20, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:27, December 16, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+I agree with the removal of the imbuable parameter and rename imbuent to imbueslots. I'll set up my bot to do this soon. On a sidenote, how did you obtain the imbuements information? I couldn't find a list on the test server forum, but they also changed the items a bit since then.
-I think: if information is relevant enough to have a link to a quest article, then it should be hidden. But that's not good enough to be in a guideline. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 05:56, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:15, December 16, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
-Ok i understand that. What about exchange items like blue pocs or minor tokens? I dont see that kind of things like quest, but here are categorized as "exchange quests" &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 03:36, July 21, 2012 (UTC)
+I had 94ish items and then I realized they added the number of slots to the market. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:35, December 17, 2016 (UTC)
 ----
+The market is a good source of info, didn't realise that as well. My bot is currently editing the 200 pages.
-What about this:
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:17, December 17, 2016 (UTC)
-*All links or references to quests under spoilers.
-*All achievements references under spoilers, so we should remove from the TOC of the world changes.
-*All exchange items without spoilers, those arent quests.
-*No spoiler in quests trade list. I mean Rashid, Djinns, Gnomally (the way its now). This will apply to in reverse, so those items would not have "spoiler: sellable to gnomally".
-*In the future, any public information (anyone can know that information, doesnt require any kind of quest) will not have spoilers. Like the locations of Rashid or the soft boots repair.
-What do you think? This covers pretty much, but for the rewwards situation. If the information about which rewards can be obtained in which quests is spoiler, we should hide it in the quest pages too. &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 03:23, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
-I'm not sure about this world change thing. I think having the achievement column is very convenient. Otherwise it's a good idea. Should we make a poll or community discussion something to gain consensus? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:40, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-There is no need of poll or consensuns, it's all about making standards. I will ask you this: why the achievement "firefigther" have spoiler tags (spoiler: can be obtained through X world change) but the world changes DONT have that spoiler. You hide the info from one page but show in another.
+== Tibia's 20th Anniversary ==
-We are not following standards but only what we think its "very convenient". The bad thing about "convenient" it's, things that you find convenient maybe i dont find it, or backwards.
+There's not a word about Tibia's 20th Anniversary on the front page of the tibia wiki. Even the events section says "This month, January, there are 2 events: New Year Time and Bewitched." Surely, Tibia's 20th anniversary is worth at least mentioning as an event.
-Before making polls you should define some basic guidelines, rules, standards. Right now what will you ask? &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 03:59, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-*why the achievement "firefigther" have spoiler tags (spoiler: can be obtained through X world change) but the world changes DONT have that spoiler.
-*:Because we have to make a special exception for "rewards" like this. Same goes for quest overview pages, they state the rewards on that page, should we also hide those? By attempting to form a standard with quest pages we are not following any standard at all. Quest and (mini) world change lists should be exempt from spoiling standards because if you visit the page you are most likely wanting the spoilers anyway. If I am honest, I don't see the point in having spoilers on achievements page, because I see people going to there for one purpose - to find out the methods of achieving it.
+[[User:Pattre Kempe|Pattre Kempe]] ([[User talk:Pattre Kempe|talk]]) 07:19, January 11, 2017 (UTC)
-*We are not following standards but only what we think its "very convenient". The bad thing about "convenient" it's, things that you find convenient maybe i dont find it, or backwards.
-*:The difference is, it harms nobody to include that content. I don't find the table on [[Pair of Soft Boots]] to be very useful, if I wanted numbers I could do the math, but I don't remove it because I see the potential for others' convenience. User convenience is the BEST policy I can think of, it should overrule any of our standards if we cannot incorporate them.
+== CreatureDroppedBy Bot Proposal ==
-*Before making polls you should define some basic guidelines, rules, standards. Right now what will you ask?
-*:I meant gain consensus on your specific proposal. I have no problems with the guidelines proposed but at the end of the day, it's not up to me or you when there are thousands of viewers out there. We don't have much of a community right now and much less to monitor recent changes and post on this talk page, pretty much the only way we have to connect with our viewers is through polls - I don't like it but we have to work with that.
+Hey guys,
-I would suggest the following guidelines:
+I wrote [[User:Bennie/Bot_Proposal|a bot proposal]]. My idea was to write this bot in Java, since I learned it recently and use it daily on my job now. Anyways, a lot of programming languagues already have [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_code API access libraries]. Then I can  just run the bot ~weekly and maybe more during updates. If you have any feedback on this idea I'd like to hear them.
-* Where a quest link is appropriate, it should be in spoilers.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:50, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
-* Lists are exempt from spoiling standards (achievements, quests, world changes).
-* The following parameters should hold spoilers and any information not suited for these parameters should not be hidden: [NPC] notes [item] notes [creature] (field)notes
-* Quest links are appropriate when:
-** [creature] Quests and world changes if they are primary monsters (mamma longlegs and Vengoth vampire lords, but not e.g. vampire bride)
-** [items] Quests and world changes only if they are (a) obtained through it, (b) has a specific use as part of them ([[Prepared Bucket]], has a specific use because you can't use bog water for anything else), (c) is spent (lost) in doing the quest (e.g. coconuts for paradox tower).
-** [NPCs] Quest and world changes only if they are very important NPCs for a quest which you talk to frequently ([[Commander Stone]])
-And the following changes:
-* (Most) exchange quests are abolished. If they don't appear in the quest log and can be repeated infinitely (e.g. red robe>pocs), we can change them to a simple "trades x for y" and list it in the NPC/item pages (just as djinns have it listed).
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 05:59, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+i think this is a great idea, the only note i can think of right now is to eliminate certain special loot (silver raid tokens, party wall snake,party wall tinsel, party lampions - or during events like anniversary old rugs)
-*"if you visit the page you are most likely wanting the spoilers anyway."
-:and is not the same situation in every quest page? c'mon, all the people who visit quest pages enters because they want to know the spoiler. this is what its wrong, we are not following any criteria, just our toughts of how it looks better.
-*"User convenience is the BEST policy I can think of"
-:And is not more convenient to delete the spoiler in the soft page? one less clic per user is not more convenient?
-:How it works now? i search soft boots, then i have to clic in the spoiler tag to show a link to the quest page that have another spoiler. every time we go to a quest through a item we ALWAYS pass 2 spoiler warnings. the question: '''"is not more convenient to simplify (in any possible way) that?" "it harms anyone to simplify that?"'''
-*Polls doesnt work for taking decisions, only as a feedback. Also you dont ask to the viewers every change you make, nobody does. And is not the only way to interact with your users, im a regular user interacting with you ;).
-*I support your proposals.
+[[User:Vapaus|Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
-&raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 12:19, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+I think it would be good but there are two scenarios that this will cause issues:
-Quest spoilers have been discussed elsewhere and I think it was almost unanimous agreement that the overview page is unnecessary and we'd change when a suitable style was agreed on.
+* User adds false information.
+*: User A edits [[Demon]], saying that it drops [[Mouldy Cheese]];
+*: '''Your bot adds that information to [[Mouldy Cheese]].'''
+* User removes false information.
+*: User B sees the issue when browsing [[Mouldy Cheese]] (...as one does...) and removes the information from [[Mouldy Cheese]].
+*: '''Your bot adds that information back to [[Mouldy Cheese]].'''
+There are of course workarounds to this:
-People go to the soft boots page for more than just the spoiler, and it harms the user by spoiling information that they are not going to that article for. One of those clicks are due to the quest overview which as said, we agreed somewhere to change.
+* Have all edits marked as pending review; post the list of changes to be made and allow editors to review these before they go live. They can edit the page to remove that item (hopefully making it impossible for your bot to find this issue next run).
+* Post all changes made to an article for review in post.
-I know that polls are bad for this but understand that there is a much wider community and very little people actually comment on things that affect us all, because either they have no account or don't see the discussions. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:17, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:47, February 18, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Thanks Vapaus, that's a good point. I think there is a list of filtered items in the loot parser which I can use and also add stuff like [[Gold Coin]] which we don't list a droppedby list of.
-I agree with Sixorish's proposals. Those are basically the guidelines we already use, but they weren't listed yet, I think.<br />
-Sez, there are players who don't like spoilers. For example, they might want to know Soft Boots details, but they don't want to know which quest they can get them from. And we have to think on their <u>convenience</u> too. Moreover, our visitors are already used to our ''standards'', those who want to see the spoiler already know that they have to click on the flashy pink box. Lastly, remember that Tibia players usually don't like drastic changes, be in on Tibia or TibiaWiki. That's why I don't support some drastic changes.
+Sixorish, that's a good point but will only be an issue if I'd let the bot run without any double-checking. I'll have to look for false positives in the beginning and think of ways to filter them later.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> -  02:16, July 23, 2012 (UTC)
-----
+I (almost) have a first working version.
-My intention was NEVER to discuss if we change anything, I just wanted guidelines to work with. Sixorish's works fine and it helps to solve most of the "conflicts". Lets agree with those guidelines and if further revisions are needed we can discuss that. But for now i think that works fine. &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 14:38, July 24, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 13:32, February 19, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
-I couldnt resist to post this image here. This image its an example of what i say. Spoilers doesnt help to hide anything, but well, just look the picture. &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 14:17, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
+I thought the plan was to run it as a weekly cron job, fully unmanned; if you're checking the changes yourself, that shouldn't be an issue. Are you looking for help on the coding side of things? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:21, February 22, 2017 (UTC)
-[[File:Wikia_Convenient.png|Tibia Wiki LOL|250px]]
 ----
+Well, a fully unmanned situation would be ideal, but requires some extra measures to prevent situations to happen, like you described.
-I reduced the image size because it's hard to discuss with that in place.
+I marked you as a collaborator so you can help if you want. But first I'm going to make the code a little cleaner, up until now I was just trying to get something to work, but I can do better than this (I'm currently reading "Clean Code" by Robert Martin which has some really nice insights, I can recommend it).
-I think that is an interesting case. I'm not sure how we should deal with that. Personally I find the spoiler tags to be a good feature because it groups quest and non-quest information, not because it hides that information from the viewer. I don't want to lose that organization (although I want that hidden spoiler to change...). The spoiler tags should say something more like: "major NPC of the traveling trader quest" in my opinion. Trades related data should not be hidden like that.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:12, February 22, 2017 (UTC)
-Tell me what you think of [[TibiaWiki:Standards/Items]] for items. Spoilers are at the end. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 10:26, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
-It's ok, but you left out the achievements. Again there are not standardization, some pages like [[Piggy Bank]] have spoiler tags for the achievement and other item like [[Ice Cube]] doesnt. So, we put achievements hide in spoilers too or don't?<br />
+== Reachable / Unreachable - Debug Tiles? ==
-Also, i deleted spoiler tags from clay lumps and marble rocks, because they were only a link to the tibiastats article. What do you think if we add the line:
-* Anything refering to statistics wont have spoiler tags.<br />&raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 14:10, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Good job, Sixorish. :)
+With the recent updates to the tibia-maps project, a few reachable/unreachable tiles were uncovered by Svargrond arena. I am guessing these tiles are related by some functional purpose, but what is it? Can they be reached or were they just temporary teleportation tiles while the debugging process was active; and if they cannot be reached, do they still exist? (If so, why?)
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 15:09, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I think the following information should be considered as spoiling on item or object pages and should be put in spoiler tags:
-*the name of the quest this item is involved in or a reward of
-*the name of the achievement related to the item
-*the route to the item/object, if quest related
+If they are related for some reason and still exist today, then surely other related game functions (seems to be time-based events?) have their own as well.
-I think this is no different to the current de facto standard. It could be formalized, so I like Sixorish' approach with some additions. The route is also spoiling for e.g. [[Blooming Griffinclaw]], that's why I think it needs to be added to the standard.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 15:19, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
-----
+Here are some other boss rooms that have candidate tiles (or maybe not):
-== Shields ==
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#33259,31689,15:3 ([[Stonecracker]])
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#33070,31039,12:2 ([[Zanakeph]]?)
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#32039,31741,8:4 ([[The Collector]])
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#32957,31046,8:2 ([[Flameborn]]?)
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#33243,31611,11:2 (?)
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#32051,31249,11:2 ([[Bretzecutioner]])
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#32030,32555,15:2 ([[Kerberos]])
+* https://tibiamaps.io/map#33395,31546,10:3 ([[Feroxa]]? Wait, is this right? Can't you levitate up there?)
+** Some other candidate tiles in that area too.
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32157,31058,7:2 Svargrond arena]
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#33082,31855,12:3 Bigfoot's Burden]
+** You reach this one if, for some reason, teleporting to [[Abyssador]]'s room is impossible. It did this on Test Server for an unknown reason, that's why we have these maps. This tile kicked anyone on it offline, and moved them to the temple at next login.
+* (none visible for [[The Many]], [[The Noxious Spawn]] or [[Gorgo]])
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:14, May 23, 2017 (UTC)
-i think the page should have now 'level' and 'attributes' as some shields have level limit, and special attributes as [[Prismatic Shield]],[[Rainbow Shield]],[[Shield of Corruption]] and [[Ornate Shield]]<br/>
-[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
 ----
+I've noticed similar tiles on [[Duelling Arena|PvP]] and [[Monster Arena|PvE arenas]], like [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Mapper?coords=126.0-125.141-12-4-1-1 here], [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Mapper?coords=126.0-125.205-12-4-1-1 here], [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Mapper?coords=126.0-125.201-9-4-1-1 here], [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32704,31817,13:2 here] and [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32768,31821,13:2 here].
-Thanks, I added level / resist / attrib to the list. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 22:51, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
+The tiles you mentioned in Svargrond arena have always been there and Cip never tried to hide them on the maps published to promoted/supported fansites (check the early versions of [[:File:Minimap Floor 7.png]]).
-== Videos ==
+Here's a "screenshot" of Svargrond arena's ''secret'' tiles:<br />
-I want to know what is the position about links to youtube videos inside pages? I made one video for the last man standing event, it's my first one and it have a lot of flaws, but i think this kind of videos can be useful for some people
+[[File:Svargrond arena secret tiles.png|300px]]
+I believe characters are either teleported there in order to trigger the arena/boss event (making monster spawn, starting timers) or when the time is over (before being teleported somewhere else).
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQtznvkoXeM&hd=1
+Other places:
-Can i put a link inside the event's page? &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 03:23, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#33256,32397,12:2 Koshei the Deathless]
-----
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32148,32314,8:2 Under Calcanea] (related to [[A Pirate's Death to Me]]?)
-Sure, it's alright. There is a tiny problem in that some users or videos may get deleted from YouTube over time, though. I've had this idea in my head to make an official TibiaWiki channel where we can upload all those videos.<br>[[User:Art Featherpitch|Art Featherpitch]] ([[User Talk:Art Featherpitch|talk]]) 18:01, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#32255,31837,10:2 Under Ghostlands] (related to [[The Queen of the Banshees Quest]]?)
+* [https://tibiamaps.io/map#33486,32332,14:2 ??]
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 14:59, May 23, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Yes, they are used to trigger the spawning of certain creatures or to effectuate changes to the environment. I remember a post on the forums some time ago by someone who had figured out that the separate stages of the orcish raid on [[Zzaion]] are triggered by rats spawning on top of such switchplates. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 02:21, May 24, 2017 (UTC)
-Actually, I like the idea provided there is somebody or a team in charge of recording and editing videos. Unfortunatelly, I don't have time for that.<br />
-Sez, if you plight to this project, I think we can give it a try. Also, we could recruit other interested users. :)
+== BattlEye integration ==
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> -  02:26, July 23, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-There is one big disadvantage of videos against written guides. In written guides lot of people can contribute with small edits to achieve a perfect guide. In videos one single person must do all the work. I did the event, recorded it, edited, added notes, compiled and uploaded to youtube. That 5 minutes event turned in about 3 hours =S. Also videos can't be edited so easily as written articles, and only the person who recorded can edit.
+Should we change [[Template:Infobox World]] to add a boolean field to represent whether or not servers are protected by BattlEye? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 05:22, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
-I really have no idea of how this could be done =S &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 14:58, July 24, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Well, it depends. Won't all worlds get BE protection in a few months? Your suggestion would only make sense if for an extended period of time only a part of the servers are BE protected.
-those are logistics that can be solved rather easily, for example :
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:34, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
-* you need to find a person who knows how to edit videos well and has licensed programs (as this is an open source wiki).
-* raw video files could be uploaded in private links (there are alot of free file sharing services that you could upload those files to) and shared with the video editor.
-* you would need to find players with suitable characters that could record those spoilers following decided guide lines (for example, no bots, only use english etc).<br/>
-i do agree that videos could not realy be used in the concept of wikipedia but they can be added to articles and sometimes they are important, as on tibia's 15th anniversery when it's a one time event ([[Lionet|page]] for example).
-bottom line is, it just needs to be decided and worked on, just my opinion.[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
 ----
+Seeing how CIpsoft makes those changes, I think it's a good idea to have BattlEye column, if they keep activating it on few by few worlds, people will get lost eventualy, so even if it has to be reversed in near(half a year, year?) future, it could be pretty useful for now.
-Everything fails because raw files are too big.
+[[User:Cauli92|Cauli92]] ([[User talk:Cauli92|talk]]) 09:39, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+I had the same idea some days ago when I was editing a few game world pages. Go ahead, Six! :)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 12:53, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
-File: shapeshifter.camrec Size: 2.20 GB (2,365,472,768 bytes)
-Vapaus it seems you know about it, can you take care? &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 21:37, July 24, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+For the moment, CipSoft is experimenting with the cost-effectiveness of rolling out BattlEye. This means that any number of game worlds could have BattlEye enabled or disabled throughout the next few months. As such, I've added support for a parameter 'battleye' which can be removed if BattlEye becomes global. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:49, June 8, 2017 (UTC)
-a premium account on a file sharing site will allow you to host it, or you could post it as a torrent and share it with the editor, or just send it over using a program as simple as WLM, you can also just split the file and upload the pieces. also that file is from a specific program, could be converted and reduced to a simple file format like mp4 or so..
-i never said that i know everything about it i simply shared my thoughts.<br/>
-[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
 ----
+Yes, looks good!
-Can you tell me how much time it will take with an upload speed of 128 kbps? Also all that time it wont let me play tibia or do anything else. It's impossible to me to do that.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:39, June 8, 2017 (UTC)
+----
+Good job, Six!
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 17:48, June 8, 2017 (UTC)
-And if the video its compressed before editing, it will look bad. In my video there is one part in which i put zoom to the server log:
+== Double Loot ==
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQtznvkoXeM&hd=1&t=1m59s
+Should we revert all Loot Statistics uploaded during the {{OfficialNewsArchive|4115|double loot weekend}}?
-It looks good because i did it with the raw file. With a compressed one that zoom will look awful. Those 50 megas i uploaded to youtube it took more than 1 hour, and it's compressed, cut, and lot of parts speed up.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 19:29, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
-I didnt said you you knew everything, please read careful. You claim that it was easy, so i said that "it SEEMS you know ABOUT IT". And it's most of organization, one thing that you claim it's really easy. So why you dont organize this? &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 00:19, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Or maybe just replace the page with an explaining text during that week?
-your full HD file as it apears on youtube weighs 82mb of an mp4 file, simple calculation shows itll take you abit less than 2 hours to upload a 100mb file, you can do it anytime before you go to sleep or before you leave your house..so it wont interupt with your tibia playing time... if you would read everything i wrote you would see that theres also the possability that you (or any other person) may not fit for this project for whatever reason (for you itll be that your bandwidth is too slow) and as we both said, thats what make this project not in one with the wiki concept<br/>
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:41, June 1, 2017 (UTC)
-and if you wish to argue with me, post on my [[User_talk:Vapaus|Talk Page]] cause i won't answer more provoctions from your side on this page
-[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
 ----
+One problem is that people may record loot statistics for weeks and only upload them when they have a lot. To minimise this we should, in addition to one of the other solutions, issue a notice to avoid the collection of loot until the period ends. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 06:13, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
-your full HD file as it apears on youtube weighs 82mb of an mp4 file, simple calculation shows itll take you abit less than 2 hours to upload a 100mb file
-*'''i said that! (again, youre not even reading my posts): Those 50 megas i uploaded to youtube it took more than 1 hour.(as it says in my previous comment)'''
-you can do it anytime before you go to sleep or before you leave your house
-*'''Not a 2 gigas file. 2000 megas it will take MORE THAN 1 DAY.'''
-and if you wish to argue with me, post on my [[User_talk:Vapaus|Talk Page]] cause i won't answer more provoctions from your side on this page
-*'''im not arguing with YOU in particular, im sharing my thoughts with everybody who post here. But yes i didnt like it your comments because it's so easy to say "it's easy" but do nothing.
-I capture and edit videos, and i have uploaded videos to youtube and is not an easy work as you think &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 01:44, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Agreed. Can any of you (or someone else) do those things? I'm just too busy now. Thanks.
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c
-<br/>[[User:Vapaus|~ Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]])
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 14:14, June 2, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+maybe we are going about this the wrong way, maybe we should double the amount of kills uploaded during double loot?
-Would the two of you please restrain yourselves?<br>[[User:Art Featherpitch|Art Featherpitch]] ([[User Talk:Art Featherpitch|talk]]) 15:58, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
+<br>
+[[User:Vapaus|Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]]) 16:21, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+We can't just double the amount of kills. We would need to do something with the maximum amount of each dropped item which would be increase after the upload. Also, it would decrease the ''no loot'' rate.
-In all my replies i have pointed out my opinion and always RELATIVE to the topic its being discussed. I have insisted that it's very hard to work in teams for this unless the "team" lives in the same city due to the big size of raw files.
+I have some news! After the Winter Update, loot messages during double loot events should be similar to the ones when a double loot prey bonus is active. It means we will be able to filter them out automatically.
-One point of wikis it's to encourage users to add information and contribute by themselves, so the best thing it can be done its just start to add videos and make one page with a list of "wanted videos" and put an announcement in the news from tibiawiki staff.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:21, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
-The lack of videos in most pages makes some people think (like me) that is not allowed or desired to post videos here. Put some videos in some pages can encourage other uses to do the same. &raquo; [[User:Sez6|Sez6]] ~ [[User_talk:Sez6|Talk]] &laquo; 16:13, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Replying to a post with the caps lock, isn't the ideal way of forming a conversation with someone, IS IT? Now, that comes that across as shouting to me. I'm not a fan of videos for plenty of reasons. It's nice for people to make videos and have people see their hard work. However, I see a lot of cons vs few pros.
+== JSON API ==
-If it took 3 hours to make one six minute video, it seems pretty pointless to me. Producing good quality and informational images barely takes 3 minutes if you know what you're doing. I think we all know that the quest pages need a good doing over. With the time it takes recording/editing videos and the time to make/save images, it comes across as a lot faster to just make the pictures. Either way the spoilers would still need updated and the transcripts checking. Then again, making videos isn't my thing, just seems like a lot of effort to me. [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 00:21, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
+I've been working on a nice little project I'd like to share with you. The goal is to expose this wikis content in a JSON API, which other people or fansites can use (besides my wikiBot which can use this to read wiki articles, change things and write them back). I first wrote my code in Java, but to host the API on this wiki itself I thought it should run on the wiki. So I ported (part of) my code to lua. You can see a demo [[User:Bennie/Test|here]]. If you edit the page, you can change the word "Bear" to another creature you like and click on preview to see the result. Right now I only support Creatures, but ultimately all types will be supported.
-== Creature ability standards ==
+Next thing to look into is how to use query parameters to call the lua module, so you can get the JSON of a specific article by going to an url like: http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/User:Bennie/Test?article_name=bear
-We need a standard by which creature abilities can be named. Consider the following wave, which I believe is the wave of most drakens:
-{|
-|x||x|| ||
-|-
-|x||x||x||x
-|-
-|x||x|| ||
-|}
-We call this "fire wave". A dragon's is much larger and is also called "fire wave". "Fire wave" does not include some of the very vital information but only an idea. So I propose these changes:
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 20:58, June 3, 2017 (UTC)
-An entry in the standards:
+----
-* Creature abilities will use the format: [shape] ([damage], [target], [graphic], [element], [effects], {[area of effect]})
+Holy crap, this looks so amazing. I didn't know we could have such things due to security issues.
-** Shape: Takes a value:
-*** Wave: conical, directional (e.g. {1,1,3,5,7})
-*** Ball: circle or square (e.g.  {3,5,7,7,9} and {3,3,3} )
-*** Beam: line (e.g. {1,1,1,1,1,1} )
-*** Berserk: 3 sqm square ( {3,3,3} ) with target=self (not sure if this one should be used since it falls under 'ball' as well)
-** Damage: numerical damage range
-** Target: if it is used on itself, "on itself"
-** Element: the element used, including manadrain
-** Effects: drunkenness, paralysis, etc.
-** Area of effect: the range around either the vertical or horizontal axis (the origin being the target's position)
-Changes to creature pages:
-* [[Melee]] (0-300+), [[Fire Wave]] (0-520), [[Self-Healing]].
-to:
-* [[Melee]] (0-300+), [[Wave]] (0-520, [[Fire Damage|Fire]], flame graphic, {1,1,3,3}), [[Self-Healing]].
-or:
-* [[Melee]] (0-300+), [[Wave]] (0-520, [[Fire Damage|Fire]], {1,1,3,3}), [[Self-Healing]].
-This would only be used for area-based abilities.
+However, does your lua script perform the parsing itself? There will be a ton of issues when dealing with "edge cases" if you parse it yourself. Like this:
-Please give me your thoughts or suggestions on how to improve it. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 00:19, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
+:<nowiki>{{ Infobox Creature</nowiki> (space has no meaning here)
+or this:
+:<nowiki>{{{{{1|Infobox Creature}}}</nowiki> (don't think we use this, but it's possible).
+If there's a library script that actually invokes the preprocessor to generate a parse tree, this would be perfect. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 07:37, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Yeah, it is pretty cool. I found out the MediaWiki API can also give back parsed pages, so you could perform a GET on [http://tibia.wikia.com/api.php?action=parse&page=User:Bennie/Test&format=xml&prop=text this page].
-It's a nice idea!<br />
-I am not sure how it could be improved, though. I have some crazy ideas, but maybe they are unfeasible.
+Sixorish, how did you make your API, you didn't use the MediaWiki API, did you? It would be useful if one could access a certain wiki page and only get json in return, to really have a REST endpoint.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 04:15, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-There are only 76 effects on the tibia dat file and many of them are not attacks, animated images for effects on a single sqm can be generated, then we can make a template that includes a list of images and call it like:
-<pre>{{Wave|damage=10-520|damagetype=Fire|image=Fire2|shape=1,1,3,3}}</pre>
+The lua script does perform the parsing, indeed. Those edge cases will break it, it's not very robust unfortunately. I have no idea what you mean with preprocessor and parse tree, can you explain? I thought it is most logical to base the json on the raw wikitext.
-The fire image is only an example, the template would give the corresponding image, it would display like this:<br />
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:31, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
-[[Fire|Fire Damage Wave (10-520)]][[File:Fire.gif|link=Fire|20px]]<br />
+----
-'''or'''<br />
+I mean to say that it would be so much better to have the MediaWiki engine process a page and give you a structured representation of the data. It's a bit silly to rewrite the MediaWiki parser to interpret wikitext correctly.
-[[Fire|Fire Damage Wave (10-520)]][[File:Fire.gif|link=Fire|20px]]{1,1,3,3}
+My "API" was based on the MediaWiki API. You can generate page contents from the API in batches of 400-500(?), which is super useful for bots. I'm guessing the lua is based on the API as well.
-When clicked it would show a box below "Abilities" that has the animated image of the wave generated with shape data and a link to the damage type page.
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:36, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
-Just an example box, the real one would have another animated "fire".
-<div style="position:relative;display:block;width:192px;height:170px;border:2px gray ridge;padding-top:20px;">
-<div style="position:absolute;display:block;top:64px;left:32px;">[[File:Fire.gif]]</div>
-<div style="position:absolute;display:block;top:64px;left:64px;">[[File:Fire.gif]]</div>
-<div style="position:absolute;display:block;top:32px;left:96px;">[[File:Fire.gif]]</div>
-<div style="position:absolute;display:block;top:64px;left:96px;">[[File:Fire.gif]]</div>
-<div style="position:absolute;display:block;top:96px;left:96px;">[[File:Fire.gif]]</div>
-<div style="position:absolute;display:block;top:32px;left:128px;">[[File:Fire.gif]]</div>
-<div style="position:absolute;display:block;top:64px;left:128px;">[[File:Fire.gif]]</div>
-<div style="position:absolute;display:block;top:96px;left:128px;">[[File:Fire.gif]]</div>
-<div style="position:absolute;top:160px;right:20px;">
-[[Fire Damage]] 10-520
-</div>
-</div>
+== Clickable Images Triggering Creature Ranks ==
-Also so people know that there is something to display when they click we can change '''Abilities:''' for '''Abilities:'''<span style="font-size: x-small;">(click them)<span>
+I just made a test with clickable images in DPL lists on [[List of Creatures by Experience to Hit Points Ratio]]. Unfortunately, [[TibiaWiki:Styles/Creature Ranks.css|Creature Ranks]] are triggered by clickable images. Does anyone know a way to circumvent this?
-I believe the template can have extra parameters like creature, creature position and player position to be able to generate anything and maybe this template and this idea can be used for/as [[TibiaWiki:Spell Animation Project]].
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 03:09, August 5, 2017 (UTC)
-For non javascript users the template would link to damage type (or maybe other page).
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 20:55, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Just that I understand you, you want to keep the golden star left of the word Abyssador, but not have a golden star appear left of the clickable image of Abyssador?
-The standard proposal is more about area attacks in general, not just waves. For example how should we name the orewalker's "wave"? it goes something like:
+You'll have to add a new CSS rule to [[MediaWiki:Custom_Scripts/Creature_Ranks/Creature_Ranks.css]] where you exclude the behaviour when there is an img tag inside an hyperlink tag, when [https://www.w3.org/wiki/CSS/Selectors/combinators/child direct child].
-{|
-| x ||   ||   ||   ||   ||
-|-
-| x || x || x || x || x || x
-|-
-| x ||   ||   ||   ||   ||
-|}
-Which resembles a beam more than a wave, but those 3 sqms are important, so we need a standard to name abilities.
-I like your idea but can it handle AoEs in general? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 22:03, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
+Let me know if you need help with that!
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:29, September 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Actually, it seems you need a parent selector for this, which is not supported by CSS yet. For now the only solution would be to use javascript.
-A beam for me is only if the attack is rect line(s) that don't change shape, that orewalker attack is a wave.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:13, September 17, 2017 (UTC)
-I will make some tests, but it is very possible.
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 23:58, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+{{Done}} Sorted. I don't know if we need to have that peer reviewed? @Bennie we get around this by exploiting the fact that those images have classes that links don't (.image.image-thumbnail) in order to reset the :before attributes.
-Daniel, it's like you have read my mind. My idea was exactly the same, the window, using the parameters to generate the image.
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:42, September 17, 2017 (UTC)
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 14:33, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Smart. Stupid of me to oversee this simple solution. I don't see a review button which javascript pages like [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] have. It doesn't load for me yet, but this may be a caching issue.
-I like a popup image showing the wave! Let's make it work.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:43, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 15:01, September 17, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Nice job, Six!
-* [[Orewalker]]: purple musical ball on itself that does no damage and causes drunkenness. Daniel's idea does not work with no-damagetype and no-damage moves. We have to name the move based on something else (probably graphic) or just call it "ball".
-* [[Dark Torturer]]: another no-damage musical attack with an effect.
-* [[Lizard Dragon Priest]]: they have some "berserk"-like attack which doesn't damage, but summons dragon hatchlings. It uses a earth/poison graphic so it would conflict with "earth ball" if we used a graphic description.
-* [[Humongous Fungus]]: poison bomb is an area attack, how do we name field area attacks?
-* [[Fury]]: "explosion wave does fire damage".
-* [[Wiggler]]: invisible (!!!) poison wave
-* [[Kollos]]: burst arrow (!!!) - hard to name it a "ball"
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 18:48, September 18, 2017 (UTC)
-These are the most prominent examples I can think of. How shall we deal with each of these then? I mean their descriptions and not a JS demonstration. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 20:46, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
-: Properties of attacks: Shape (waves, single tiles), Graphic (Blood-Hit,Fire,None) , Location (Player or Creature, I'm thinking Waves are Creature area of effects are player). Would that cover all?
-<table>
-<tr><td>Creature</td><td>Shape</td><td>Graphic</td><td>Location</td><td>Effect</td></tr>
-<tr><td>[[Orewalker]]</td><td>Circle - Radius3</td><td>Musical</td><td>Self</td><td>Causes drunkness</td></tr>
-<tr><td>[[Lizard Dragon Priest]]</td><td>Box - Radius 1</td><td>Earth/Poison Graphic</td><td>Self</td><td>Summons Dragon Hatchlings</td></tr>
-</table>
-And so on, naming conventions could be user defined "Musical Drunk Bomb" but the parameters above would just correspond to a switch. Don't think there's anything else. For your beam shape it'd have to be named T-Beam or something.
-<br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 22:21, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Is it working? I tested this in the console and it seems to work, but the server isn't updating its CSS. Maybe the CSS doesn't get regenerated until some code review is passed? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:40, September 20, 2017 (UTC)
-@Craggles: the user defined "musical drunk bomb" is exactly why I want change. It isn't standardized. I want a systematic way to name a creature ability not a user-defined ability. Many times I've avoided adding an ability just because I can't come up with a name that is descriptive but doesn't sound amateurish. For instance take a look at [[Obujos]]:
-:Great Cloud-Energy Bomb (200-600 causes Mana Drain)
-::Name suggests energy, energy, and more energy and then the description says 'causes manadrain'. Also "energy bomb" suggests a [[Energy Bomb|field]], which it's not.
-:Ice Beam (600-1300)
-::Name is based on the element. Seems ok at the moment but it doesn't do this by any standard.
-:Eternal Winter Wave (Does Life Drain) (600-1500)
-::Name is based on the graphic. Does not do the element described by name.
-:Great Sudden Death Bomb (200-800)
-::Name is based on the graphic. Uses two negating words ('sudden death' is single-target, 'bomb' is either a field or multiple target)
-:Sudden Death (reduces distance fighting skill by 60%)
-::Name is based on the graphic. Does not do the element described by name.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 23:13, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
-: I see. We just need to take those above categories and stitch them together to form coherent (albeit specific and lengthy) names for moves. <Graphic> optional:<Shortened Effect (Drunk/ Dragon/ Etc)> if affect damage then ignore <Shape (AOE Sphere for Circle) (AOE Beserk/Local) for Box> <- that's the tricky bit, shapes and tibia names for shapes will vary <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 00:03, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+It is not working yet. Shouldn't [[TibiaWiki:Styles/Creature Ranks.css]] be edited too?
-Another case: the + shape move, at least 2 new monsters use it (lost berserker and ironblight) -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:32, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
-:We can always just bucket the abilities into Direct Hits, AoEs and Waves and beams, then let the images explain the rest. <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 17:03, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 19:36, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
- :[[User:Craggles/Creature_Abilities]] This is what I've got so far as a template. It needs more generalising but the idea is there. The coordinate system works in my head quite well. If we had an image dimensions extension we could automate the creature position aswell. I plan on adding case functions for the general waves and other "named" attacks, <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 22:04, August 16, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+I thought the TibiaWiki css page was replaced with the MediaWiki css page, since Wikia wants custom js and css inclusions only from "trusted" places. But I don't know how the inclusion system actually works. It's not as if there is an import statement in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]].
-I'm converting a little script I got to a template, I can't think something it doesn't include so I hope it works.
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 02:29, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 20:28, September 22, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
-Theres also a difference in balls that a creature casts on himself (like UE) or balls that are casted on the attacker (like gfbs). This should get mentioned as well. And wasnt there allready a page for discussing the creature spells problem? [[User:Foggy|foggy]] ([[User talk:Foggy|talk]]) 00:44, August 19, 2012 (UTC)
+@Hunter: You're right, the MediaWiki: CSS page isn't actually being used, the TibiaWiki:Styles/... page needed to be updated. Cheers, -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:59, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+If you are sure, can you delete the unused one?
-I made this for the graphics [[:w:c:dantest:Spell_Display]], I still want to test more and try to reduce preprocessor usage, so if you want, test it on that wiki and let me know if you find problems or limitations. After this is tested, optimized and we have well defined standards we can think about implement it to Infobox_Creature with javascript, I believe it will be easy.
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 07:50, August 19, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 18:36, September 26, 2017 (UTC)
-== Question regarding the "Wikia" theme/template. ==
-Since 2-3 days back now I've been seeing a really stretched design compared to how it used to look. I've asked around and seem to be like this for everyone, although.. it's not on all pages but only the main page and a couple of others I have seen. The "my preferences" page looks completely normal and isn't stretched at all. What gives? :) -- [[User:Horisho|Mr. H]] ([[User talk:Horisho|talk]]) 07:50, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
-A lot of people have complained about the old design because it is a fixed layout and wastes a lot of space, so on each pageload (only in the mainspace / content namespace) script will expand it.
-We didn't do it sooner because we suspected it would be against Wikia's terms of use, but they (apparently) encourage changing the design.
+== Items/Objects sold on the Store and their price ==
-Does the adjusted design bother you (or anyone else you've talked with)? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 06:37, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Also what came with the changes: you no longer land on a suggestion page if you type in e.g. "Rashid", if you know the exact name of a page then the search will take you directly to that page, as it used to. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 06:39, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I don't see how someone would be complaining about the fixed design really. I found it much easier and lenient to my eyes as I got a widescreen monitor. And why would only some pages be altered and not all of them in that case? Seems a bit pointless in my opinion. Is there ANY way for people who don't agree and want the fixed template back to disable the new script? Atleast let people have the chance to choose for themselves, please.
-And yes, I have also noticed the change in the search system, NOT a big fan of it as you now are required to have perfect grammar to find what you're looking for. In the past i could just type a word in either capital or lower-case letters and it would bring up a list of suggestions. Good ol' days. I found out though by changing the wikia template to the original old one that those options still existed, search wise. -- [[User:Horisho|Mr. H]] ([[User talk:Horisho|talk]]) 07:44, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I can add support for an opt-out but I would rather adjust it to meet your needs. Maybe we can set a more appropriate fixed width to the content box to avoid it stretching absurdly.
+I noticed that there's a general lack of information on item's articles regarding to [[Store]] availability. For example, if you go on [[Mana Potion]] there's no mention that you can buy them on the Store, this information is only available on the Store's page. Same thing applies to Runes, some House Equipment, etc.
-I will check a few pages and change it soon, I want the content box to be wide enough to avoid text wrapping in NPC trades tables.
+There's also a problem when it comes to the TC prices. For example, the [[Brocade Tapestry]] says '''''Bought for''' 50 Tibia Coins gp''. Some types such as objects (e.g. [[Mana Cask]]) and outfits also don't have a ''price'' parameter, which means it's not possible to add this information to their articles using a parameter. On the other hand, [[Template:Infobox Mount]] has a ''price'' parameter that works very well.
-Just wondering: what are your screen's dimensions? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:01, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Actually, I prefer the wider content space. Its biggest advantage is that wider tables now fit instead of getting squashed.
+Finally there's the issue of having bundles of items available with different amounts and price, like 125x Mana Potions for 5 TC and 300x Mana Potions for 10 TC. Considering all this I had an idea which I'm not sure could be implemented:
-Horisho, do you like the sidebars to the right of the infoboxes where you can easily navigate to related pages?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:40, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-That would be awesome if something in between could be worked out, Sixorish. As it looks now it feels a bit over the top haha. My current resolution im running is 1920x1080 on a 24" wide-screen monitor. And if I would be using the browser in maximized mode it looks HUGE, unlike any other site I seen. One could think there is no limit to the width it stretches. I'd be happy if it was just a bit bigger than before, to still keep those brown "side-spaces" outside the main-box that it had. Now it looks like 1 big box, with smaller boxes placed inside. Since I understand your concerns about the content boxes (worked some with coding myself in the past) I also understand it can't be to tight. -- [[User:Horisho|Mr. H]] ([[User talk:Horisho|talk]]) 11:13, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Bennie, I do. It's really handy and saves time when not completely sure what you are looking for. -- [[User:Horisho|Mr. H]] ([[User talk:Horisho|talk]]) 11:13, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
+A ''storeprices'' parameter would be added to the templates of types that include store products (Item, Outfit, Object, ?). This could be just a value for 1x items, but it wouldn't work for bundles, so perhaps new templates would be useful as its value. Something like:
-== Disable user blogs? ==
+<pre>
-We rarely use them and is just another thing to moderate, maybe we should disable them? what you think?
+{{Store Price
+ |{{Store Bundle|amount|price}}
+ |{{Store Bundle|amount|price}}
+}}</pre>
+For example:
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 01:08, August 25, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Yes I agree, but not before a community consensus with a poll, maybe?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:03, August 25, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-''TibiaWiki is not myspace, or any kind of blog. While we do allow people to create user pages to "show off", there are sites more suitable for blogging. ''
+<pre>{{Store Price
-I don't think we really need to ask the community. This is already stated on [[Help:Getting started]]. [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 14:29, August 25, 2012 (UTC)
+ |{{Store Bundle|125|5}}
-----
+ |{{Store Bundle|300|10}}
-I agree it should be disabled. Then we would delete all pages on [[:Category:Blog posts]] or leave them as they are? —'''[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]]''' ([[User talk:Arkshi|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Arkshi|contribs]]) 16:51, August 27, 2012 (UTC)
+}}</pre>
-----
-I agree too. We are used to discuss issues on talk pages. And it seems our community didn't like these blog pages too.
+This should translate into something like this:
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:16, August 27, 2012 (UTC)
+http://i.imgur.com/eDKp5Ql.png
-== Just a thought ==
+What do you guys think? I'm sorry if it has been discussed before but I didn't see any mention on the archives. If you want I can offer to try creating the templates (I'd just need to read how to do it and where to test it), and of course update the pages after implementation.
-I think a lot of existing fansite owners would have the resources and desire to host TibiaWiki, and would not be so severe on advertising / limiting our rights.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 22:40, August 28, 2012 (UTC)
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 14:19, August 9, 2017 (UTC)
-: It's taken us this long to get our fanbase back from the last move remember. <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 23:18, August 28, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Thanks for pointing it out! I added parameters related to Store prices to [[Template:Infobox Outfit]]. I also added a parameter for achievement.
-I don't think it took us that long. If anything people were reluctant to move because of the changes that were forced upon us (Monaco skin).
+Someone still has to add Store prices parameters to [[Template:Infobox Item]].
-And I don't deny that it will be difficult to move and adapt, but everyday I hear people complain to me about Wikia's changes being counterproductive and making it hard to use. It's not getting better. We don't even have the right to change it, nor contest it.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:23, August 24, 2017 (UTC)
-I tried to change something and Wikia's response to that was to delete the script. It wasn't a "we understand your concerns and we'll negotiate with the community to accommodate for our needs and your wishes" it was an outright "your change is bad for our advertising model so I deleted it".
-The more we contribute to Wikia, the harder it is for us to move. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:15, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Problem is, the Store-bought potions might need their very own pages. They don't stack with the regular shop-bought potions and have a flavourtext (as opposed to their shop-bought counterparts). However (to make things more complicated), putting either type of potion under a hotkey ''will'' make that hotkey work for both types... -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 14:22, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
-The issue with wikia is that they are hiring more inept people every day, just like Cip, and there is a point where people start noticing it, but whatever the reasons are, I don't think we deserve how wikia threat us or in other words, that wikia deserves us.
-On the other side I don't think becoming "partners" with another fansite is worth it, mainly because I consider the main thing that moves most if not all of their actions is money, I believe a better option is to move to a host we pay and try to recover that money with ads, even if with time we profit and partially our motivation becomes money at least we would have independence.
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 04:56, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Thanks Hunter, I see that you also updated all pages already, nice!
-Moving to a completely independent host is and will always be option #1 on my list. But we've had this discussion before, it didn't go anywhere. This is option #2. If another fansite has already shown to be capable of hosting a server, they should be ok running TibiaWiki.
+The Store potions and runes thing is indeed problematic. But I have the impression they are the same item (.dat wise), with maybe one attribute that gives items from the Store specific properties.
-I agree that most fansite owners are all about profit, but Wikia are too. If we moved it would also be a selfish move: moving is not necessary, but we can do much better than staying with Wikia. And I expect hosting TibiaWiki would be quite profitable, we may be able to negotiate a contract instead of all profits being designated to the hoster (just an idea, not sure how that would work). With Wikia we are their peons: we work for them, we have no say, we have no rights and we take their one-size-fits-all design, and there's no reward but the "satisfaction" of building their database and giving them profit.
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 18:29, August 25, 2017 (UTC)
+== Update Minimap Floor Files ==
-TibiaWiki is undoubtedly the most popular fansite of Tibia, yet we are bound by strict policies that we can't contest; we lost all our rights when we moved here and for that reason it's not about community anymore. That's my main problem with the current system. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 05:37, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Back then, when we talked about moving and Erig bought www.tibiawiki.tw I had a talk with Steven from TibiaML. He had a good offer, moving to him, maybe it still holds. I have a few conditions though:
-*Our main motivation is to provide objective information, making money should be not an objective. Ideally none of use would be involved in the money process
-*A good contract should be made with our new partner or provider. We should have the ability to move away again, if needed.
-*Nobody of our admin team should have head responsibility for back end coding to keep the mediawiki software running. Ideally we our partner/provider could install extensions for us and stuff like that. (This is something I like about Wikia, a few times I needed an extension, like the <nowiki>{{#var}}</nowiki> extension and they installed it simple and clean for us, after a quick email).
-*I'm not sure if another provider would give as the speed Wikia has. They have servers over the whole world. Our provider would need at least one master and one slave server for continuous backup options.
-*The move should go smove and swift. Exporting/importing pages and edits is easy. Images and user accounts is a lot harder. Every person with at least one edit should be able to reclaim his/her account on the new domain.
-*We should think REALLY good about our name. I want people calling us Tibia Wiki, I hear people calling us Wikia nowadays (in Help channel in Tibia last week).
+The Minimap files are protected pages, I assume because they were used by the mapper and hence very sensitive. Now they are used just in the miniature map on NPC pages. They haven't been updated in a while, which leads to NPCs being displayed on the ocean, e.g. [[Valindara]]. Could someone please unprotect these files or update the images? Files are:
-It will take effort to move. More effort than staying. The question is, are we up to it? Can we know for sure it would really benefit us in the end?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:04, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Just to put my voice in, I still support the move and would definitely be up for it. Hunter brought this discussion up after you retired from being Contact Person, not sure how he feels about it now but it's pretty clear that the only real issues were and still are, the MediaWiki and hosting/funds for this. [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 20:10, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
-: Fuck it let's move to a not-shithole <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 09:27, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Lets continue this discussion by email.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:02, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-:Sorry to continue it here, but we could ask cipsoft if they'd make a special case for us and give us a server. They know we're good for it on ads. <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 14:31, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I've discussed with Sixorish on the last test server about moving to another wiki hosting service. Namely it would be Wikkii advanced hosting, you can look it on google for more information.
+[[:File:Minimap Floor 0.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 1.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 2.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 3.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 4.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 5.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 6.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 7.png]],
-If you want to continue this via email, please don't forget to include me. —'''[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]]''' ([[User talk:Arkshi|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Arkshi|contribs]]) 16:19, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
+[[:File:Minimap Floor 8.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 9.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 10.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 11.png]],
+[[:File:Minimap Floor 12.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 13.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 14.png]], [[:File:Minimap Floor 15.png]]
+The optimal solution would be making [[:Template:Minimap]] work with the tibiamaps files, but that doesn't seem to be an easy thing to do.
-== Maps ==
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 18:07, September 4, 2017 (UTC)
-Right now I only use the Flash Client, I just mapped the second floor of  a tomb to replace the outdated map [[Ancient Ruins Tomb/Map|here]], but I'm not sure how to make a map for it (since the export function is gone AND the Tibia Map viewer can't view the new .dat file maps). Any ideas?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:02, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+I sent an email to Mathias last night asking him to update our Mapper files, but I don't know when he will have time for this.
-Is [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Mapper?coords=130.0-127.54-13-2-1-1 this] map not complete? Mirade has forwarded the issue so unless or until something gets changed, I suppose the only way to do it from "our" maps is to take screenshots of the minimap. [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 22:34, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I made a php script to convert .sol map files to png, I'm not sure if it will work always or if all the map files on flash cache are always named correctly for it but for the maps I exported from c++ client is working. If you have a set of .sol maps where this is not working maybe you can email them to me so I try to improve the script.
+If you can, Molx, you can use the TibiaMaps PNG files found [https://github.com/tibiamaps/tibia-map-data here] to create the new versions of the files you mentioned. Please, follow the same standards (centering and dimensions / water margins). Oh, and don't forget [[:File:Minimap Floor 7h.png]]. :-)
-https://sites.google.com/site/danielletalis/sol_to_png.zip
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 07:17, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Thanks Beejay, that would work for maps added to the Mapper.
-Daniel, how do I find these .sol files? I looked in my cache, but could only find some xml and swf files related to tibia.
+Once you have the files, I will unprotect them, then you can upload the new versions and I will protect them again.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:40, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I have windows XP and don't use chrome, I have them on '''C:\Documents and Settings\<My user>\Application Data\Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\<some random code>\secure.tibia.com''', the .sol map files should be in the same directory as a file named "listing.sol", if you have problems finding "listing.sol", maybe you can try "Everything" http://www.voidtools.com/
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 21:15, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Thanks, I found it (it's a little different on Windows 7, I use firefox for the flash client, namely Appdata\Roaming instead of Application Data). 90.60 seconds for 230 MB. Outputs 16 PNG files with all map levels, nice job!
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:26, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
-----
+Edit: Mathias told me he is going to do it over the weekend.
-== NPC standards ==
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:44, September 13, 2017 (UTC)
-Please tell me what you think about this: [[TibiaWiki:Standards/NPC]].
-I came across some problems in coding a parser for the data we have ... main ones were:
-* The sounds parameter follows no standard. We seem to follow a standard, but we don't. we have two separators: comma and semicolon. I could work around that, but then someone may introduce a new separator ... it's better to reduce to one.
-* Also, some of our NPC sounds are not enclosed in quotation marks, so it's hard to determine where a sound begins and ends.
-* Mapper links have the alt text "here" which is basically useless unless we render the page to find the links. The suggestion is to replace them with square brackets and the coordinates inside.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 19:39, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+I didn't read the edit until it was too late, haha. If you want I can upload them. There is an excessive empty space on the bottom of these images, not sure why. Nevertheless, I kept the same sizes, as requested. If it works as expected you can tell Mathias not to worry about it. :)
-You can standardize the sounds with "sound1", "sound2" etc. But I dislike replacing the alttext for mapper links with coordinate numbers. It justs looks ugly and gives no info to the viewer at all.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:53, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 20:23, September 14, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Done, all users are allowed to upload new versions of those files for now.
-I dislike using coordinates for mapper links. We could use a blank alt text which would only generate the mapper icon, like this:<br/>
-[[Svargrond]][http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Mapper?coords=125.208-121.180-7-4-1-1 <i></i>] tavern on '''Monday'''<br/>
-—'''[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]]''' ([[User talk:Arkshi|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Arkshi|contribs]]) 20:03, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I like Arkshi's suggestion. My only request is that we can move it to a template to make the data accessible. In the template we could define a rule to follow where instead of a link to the mapper, the coordinates are given (because I really think this information is important) but the coordinates wouldn't appear except on specific data-extraction pages. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 20:16, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-The z (floor) is missing in the coordinates on the page.
+Edit: The reason for the ''excessive empty space'' can be explained by checking [[Template:Minimap]]. After exploring new areas from a certain update, there was at least one <code>1##129##.map</code> file i.e Y = 129 (not on the ground floor, as you can see), that's why we needed to change the Mapper files dimensions.
-You think modifications should be done to the mapper so besides the current system(127.128, 124.128, 7) we can use shorter real coordinates(32640, 31872, 7)?
---[[User:Daniel Letalis|Daniel Letalis]] ([[User talk:Daniel Letalis|talk]]) 23:52, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Oops, I forgot about z.. figured it defined zoom levels or something. I think real coordinates may be easier to understand, but it wouldn't be consistent with Tibia so maybe it's a bad idea.
-The main reason I want this data accessible is so we can display the coordinates on pages like [[User:Sixorish/DPL/NPC/Data1]], which I am using to generate data for [[w:c:sixtest:Project:API4]]. It uses raw text so the coordinates aren't available. If it was moved to a template, we could define something like <nowiki>{{#if:{{#pos:{{PAGENAME}}|DPL}}|[x,y,z]|</nowiki>&lt;!-- main code --&gt;<nowiki>}}</nowiki>, so it becomes accessible as text. With all NPC mapper coordinates, it would be possible to code e.g. a map viewer with all NPCs marked.
-Personally I don't mind how it's displayed (or if it's displayed at all) on the NPC pages.. the reason I am suggesting is because the information can be used outside of NPC pages. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 00:22, September 25, 2012 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:14, September 14, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
-*Sounds standards - Good job!
-*Each sound with an own parameter (<i>sound1</i>, <i>sound2</i>, ...) - Ok, if needed.
-*API - Great idea!
-*Map coordinates parameter & using "official" coordinates - Good idea! Actually, I was about to ask for a Coordinate Converter to convert coordinates from the "official" system to our Mapper's current system in order to utilize a few hundreads locations ;).
+Done, thanks! - [[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 02:16, September 15, 2017 (UTC)
-Since we are talking about new NPC parameters, why don't we create a <i>"Radius"</i> parameter or <i>"Minimum Radius"</i> parameter (since it's impossible to determine some NPCs' radius)?
+== Social engagement ==
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 00:53, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
+It looks like Facebook has failed as a platform for social engagement. I would propose three reasons for this:
-== Infobox World Quest and Quest ===
+* TibiaWiki is a collaborative community. It's not a social network.
+* It's too formal to send a message to the TibiaWiki administrators via Facebook.
+* We don't regularly create content that is worthy of publishing to Facebook.
+What we need, I think, is something less formal and more communal than Facebook pages offer. Discord is probably the best bet, because it's a platform for gamers to chat amongst each other. What I was thinking is that we could have channels to discuss different issues, e.g. some where players can discuss the issues they have with TibiaWiki, as well as suggest and ''collaboratively discuss'' how the wiki can be improved. The important distinction is that it must be casual, otherwise nobody will use it and it will fail just as our Facebook page has.
+I've wanted to post this for a while, because I think it's really important that ''something'' is done. The community's #1 priority must be to foster its continued growth, but my experience (of lurking the recent changes) is showing that the community is stagnating. I see the same people editing articles, and this is ''not'' sustainable.
-[[Template:Infobox_Quest]] and [[Template:Infobox World Quest]] could and probably should be merged, agreed?
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:09, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
-<br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 08:33, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+i support this.
-The only significant difference between the two templates is that they each have three distinct quest types (exchange, addon, outfit vs. world change, -event, -task) which merely set corresponding categories. I see no reason not to merge them if no one objects. <br />--[[User:DM|DM]] ><((°> [[Special:Contributions/DM|Contribs]] <°))>< [[User_talk:DM|talk to me]] 00:46, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
+<br>[[User:Vapaus|Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]]) 15:53, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+As an user who started contributing more actively just recently I think this is a good idea. It would be very good for Wiki if a new way to engage with the community was found. I'm not an avid Discord user but I would at least give it a try.
-No objections either.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 07:16, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 16:00, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Yes, I agree we should do something. Let's give Discord a try. Wikia tried to make a casual communication feature - [[Special:Chat]] - which failed because players need to have a Wikia account for that. We can also create threads in Reddit every now and then.
-==Infobox NPCs==
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:13, November 16, 2017 (UTC)
-Should we transclude transcripts below the infobox template? That'd be all their info but history in one nice scrolling page. <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 06:56, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Alright. I've created a server.
-Yes, I'm in favor.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 07:46, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I also like the idea. [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 13:45, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
+Here's a link: https://discord.gg/Mqgz9Mz
-== Main page and Recent changes filter problem ==
+Anyone can join, admins will be granted a special role so that they can be identified. Admins will have a public and private chat. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 07:39, February 2, 2018 (UTC)
-The right column at [[Main Page]] is broken, it was moved to the bottom of the left column instead of displaying by its side.
-Also, the namespace filter at the Recent changes page is not working, it doesn't matter which namespaces you select, it will always display "All" when you click "Go". I've tested with a different user account and it has the same problem. When no user is logged in, you get the old filter, which works. —'''[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]]''' ([[User talk:Arkshi|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Arkshi|contribs]]) 18:46, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I see no bugs on the main page, but the namespace filter is bugged indeed. Also, the search windows is removed from the recent changes page, which is kinda annoying. (I visit that page frequently and use it as a starting point to look up articles sometimes).
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:34, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-It can be seen in [http://tibia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=monobook Monobook]. It was fine yesterday so is this to do with Wikia's changes? [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 19:53, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
-Oops, I forgot to mention it could only be seen using monobook, sorry. It most likely was caused by Wikia, but I thought they were making changes only to the wikia skin. —'''[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]]''' ([[User talk:Arkshi|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Arkshi|contribs]]) 20:34, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
+I have created [[TibiaWiki:Discord]], mainly to link it in the [[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation|navigation bar]], but also to provide a simple description of the server (please edit it if you want to expand or change something). If we want this to work we must do some sort of "advertising" or at least put it out there I guess. -- [[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 14:26, March 1, 2018 (UTC)
-== Proposals: item / trades system changes ==
+== Status ==
-Proposal 1:
-;Remove all item-for-item transactions from trades templates (price to buy, price to sell, trades/sells, trades/buys), and make a new one specifically for item-item trades.
-Like we have [[Template:Teaches]]. The trades templates are designed for transactions involving money; adding them to trades templates will bug sorting and just make things more complicated than they have to be.<br />
-Examples:
-<span style="white-space:pre;">
--- "Mushroom Backpack"
-"Gnomally: 15 Minor Crystalline Tokens"
--- "Fighting Spirit"
-"Haroun: -2 Royal Helmets"
-"Yaman: -2 Royal Helmets"
-</span><br />
-Proposal 2:
-;All items in trades templates should reference a specific item.
-Variations of the items should be specified in the notes. This applies for liquids, keys etc..<br />
-Examples:<br />
-'''Before''' the change:
-<span style="white-space:pre;">
---"Fibula Key"
-"Dermot: 2000"
-"Simon the Beggar: 800"
---"Key 3033"
-"Shirith: 50"
---"Bottle of Water"
-"Tanaro: 2"
---"Bottle of Milk"
-"Livielle: 15"
-</span>
-'''After''' the change it would look something like this:
-<span style="white-space:pre;">
---"Wooden Key"
-"Dermot: 2000; [[Key 3940]]"
-"Simon the Beggar: 800; [[Key 3940]]"
---"Silver Key"
-"Shirith: 50; [[Key 3033]]"
---"Bottle"
-"Tanaro: 2; water"
-"Livielle: 15; milk"
-</span>
-<br />
-Proposal 3:
-;All items that do not pertain to specifically 1 item should be given the [[:Category:Lists|Lists]] category.
-Also, those items need to be split if their in-game IDs are different. The Lists category is used as a filter for some DPL pages, where we want to exclude duplicates (or in this case 'overviews').<br />
-Examples:
-<span style="white-space:pre;">
-- Backpack, this item does not exist by itself, it is essentially an overview of backpacks.
-- Tapestry, same thing but for tapestries. We don't have pages 'Yellow Tapestry' etc., they need to be created.
-</span>
-Proposal 4:
-;Do not use the trade system for intangibles.
-We don't list boat fares in the trades table... so why other intangibles?<br />
-Examples:
-<span style="white-space:pre;">
---"The Spiritual Shielding Blessing"
-"Norf: -2000 gp and an extra 200 gp for each level up to 120"
---"The Embrace of Tibia Blessing"
-"Humphrey: -2000 gp and an extra 200 gp for each level up to 120"
---"The Spark of the Phoenix Blessing"
-"Kawill: 0"
-"Pydar: -2000 gp and an extra 200 gp for each level up to 120"
--- "Promotion":
-"Emperor Kruzak: 20000"
-"Emperor Rehal: 20000"
-"Ishebad: 20000"
-"King Tibianus: 20000"
-"Queen Eloise: 20000"
--- "Ticket for Exhibition":
-"Cillia: 50; By talking to her"
-</span>
+I am planning to edit all our infobox templates which use the "status" parameter, to let them display the corresponding template at the top of the page, depending on the value of this parameter. So if you put e.g. "status = deprecated" on an item page, it will automatically put the [[Template:Deprecated]] at the top of the page.
-Please tell me what you think about these. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 17:45, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I agree with all, especially with proposal 3. I was thinking on separating objects by their ID as well, but this would require too much work. —'''[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]]''' ([[User talk:Arkshi|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Arkshi|contribs]]) 20:29, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I also agree. [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 20:39, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I'm sorry, I don't understand your meaning in the sentence "will bug sorting". Can you clarify?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 21:54, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Bennie: MediaWiki comes with JavaScript to sort table rows according to column contents. It can sort alphabetically and numerically. It determines which to sort by, by checking the contents of the column sorted. If we mix strings and numbers it will sort alphabetically, so 1000 comes after 1 but before 2. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 01:27, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I've noticed this bug happening on a lot of creature DPLs. Is there any fix or work-around? I thought on using "0010, 0100, 1000" to solve it but it would look terrible. —'''[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]]''' ([[User talk:Arkshi|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Arkshi|contribs]]) 02:20, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-A fix would be to remove the strings from the data... a workaround would be to add data-sort-type="number"  ([http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Sorting#Sort_modes meta]). It is much, much better if you eliminate the strings.
+Afterwards I will let my bot check all wiki pages and remove status-related templates from the top of the page and add the status parameter instead.
-I reworded some of the proposals (2 and 3) to clarify: the 'item name' of keys for example is 'Copper Key'. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 04:58, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Sixorish, I finally understand your proposals after trying to add the new trade system to the [[Containers]] category. [[Santa Backpack]] is item-for-item trade with a NPC, the way I fixed it now looks a little weird, but I think it's ok for now. I agree something must be done to fix these situations, but I'm not sure which  one of your proposals is the best.. Also, the [[Backpack]] and [[Bag]] pages are a problem as well... I think one of these things should be done:
-*apply the new trade system to these pages, remove all info about other backpacks and bags (they have their own pages)
-*to prevent info from getting completely deleted, move the info to Notes
-*move the info about other backpacks and bags to a disambig page
+There might be some time when you see two templates at the top of the page, one added manually and one by the template, but hopefully this will be only the case for a short timespan.
-What do you think?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:46, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:44, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Go ahead, Bennie! It is good that you found some time to do this! :)
-Bennie.. the proposals don't conflict, I am proposing all 3 changes, not one of the three.
+As stated in my talk page, I believe there should be a distinction among
-I like the idea of disambigs but if we go down that track I would suggest an alternative:
+# Content overwritten or removed from the game; and
-* Create a template which lists each backpack (this is to ease editing in the future when more backpacks are created), this would go in the notes of every backpack page, as a form of navigation.
+# Content made unobtainable (e.g items that expired).
-* Redirect [[Backpack]] to [[Brown Backpack]]. Brown backpack is the 'general' backpack in game.. it is the best page to land on.
-* Brown Backpack will have a note at the top: "This is an article about brown backpacks. For other backpacks, see [[Backpack (Disambiguation)]]"
-This way we can conform to the requirements of the trade system, but not lose all the information on those pages. When I mentioned the list category, I had in mind excluding it from item lists (using DPL), but thinking about the trade system... we really need to get rid of those because they are incompatible, we can't give them an npcvalue or buyfrom because they aren't the same item. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:52, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 18:08, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+I searched for "status" on your talk page but didn't exactly find what you mean. Can you elaborate? Anyways, if you want to add more statuses, you can simple add them in [[Template:Status Messagebox]], the code is easy to understand (I think).
-I agree with the proposals, but I didn't understand this:<br />
-<i>"Backpack, this item does not exist by itself, it is essentially an overview of backpacks."<br />
-"Redirect Backpack to Brown Backpack. Brown backpack is the 'general' backpack in game"</i>
+So I just went over all templates listed on [[TibiaWiki:Portable Infoboxes|this page]], added support everywhere except not on the following templates:
-Actually, the brown backpack is called <i>"a backpack"</i> ingame (same for the bag). So we should follow the naming standards and have an article named "[[Backpack]]" for that item, i.e., we should change the article to focus only on the brown backpack (and create other articles for others backpacks).
+*[[Template:Infobox Cipsoft Member]], their working time parameters kind of informs of their status.
+*[[Template:Infobox Fansite]], here "rank" is used to inform of their status.
+*<s>[[Template:Infobox Geography]], but maybe we should? Some areas are event-related (15th tibia anniversary? nostalgia?) and some areas are removed from the game at some point (tutorial island?), although this doesn't happen often.</s> (added support for [[Nostalgia]] status=deprecated).
+*[[Template:Infobox Hunt]], same as geography.
+*[[Template:Infobox Street]], same as geography.
+*[[Template:Infobox Update]], we don't use this template yet.
+Furthermore, note that for [[Template:Infobox World]], "ingamestatus" is used, which is empty or has the value ''deprecated''.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 23:20, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Oops, thought it was called 'Brown Backpack', so we should name it [[Backpack]] (basically as it is now) and have that page contain stuff relevant to backpacks in general in the notes, with a templated list of backpacks. The buyfrom, sellto, droppedby of [[Backpack]] would be only those that sell/buy/drop brown backpacks (other info will be on the specific backpack page). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 04:54, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I just applied the new trade system to [[Backpack]] and [[Bag]] and made overview pages called [[Backpacks]] and [[Bags]]. I thought it would be useful to have the buyfrom info on those overview pages, but I'm not sure how to do this since regular expressions are not possible within DPL (?). Also, [[Mushroom Backpack]] behave really strange, it appears to be outside the [[:Category:Containers]]...
+I will now start up the bot.
-Sixorish, then I agree with proposal 1. I haven't encountered the problems which are solved by proposal 2 and 3, so it's hard to judge if they are necessary (but I might in the future).
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:48, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 18:42, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+I meant this (quoting myself from [[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes#Enchanted and Charged weapons]]):
-Mushroom backpack problem was a caching issue, a null edit fixes it. I experienced a few problems similar (weren't being added to [[:Category:Items]]), a real annoyance with DPL...
+''There is a difference between items that Cip decided to ''expire'' like [[Lottery Ticket (Blank)]], [[Trashed Draken Boots]] and the weapons in question, and items that were overwritten by different items like [[Amulet of Life]] and the [[Old Wands and Rods]]. In my opinion, there should be different categories and message boxes for them.''
-The proposals are not necessarily requirements (we can work around them), I am proposing a standard so that we have guidelines to fall back on when they are challenged, rather than having to discuss every change. I think these proposals fit best because if we included intangibles, we would have to include boat fares. These are more 'services' than 'goods'. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 11:41, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Hi. The [[Precious Necklace]] price shows '''Division by zero'''. I don't know how to fix it. Could you take a look? Thanks. [[User:Thascius|Thascius]] ([[User talk:Thascius|talk]]) 18:17, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-The price needed to be added on [[Template:Price to Buy]]. It's done now, thank you! [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 19:10, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I think we should go ahead and add support for intangibles. There doesn't seem to be a good reason not to.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 23:25, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-How do you suggest we add support? Intangibles include:
-* Trip from Venore to Edron
-* Blessing of Solitude
-* Access to Thais Exhibition
-* Vocation Promotion
-I can see many reasons why not to add support for them. Just one of them is that many of these articles don't have their own page, nor their own template. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 00:31, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I am referring to your proposal 1, an item for item trade, like [[Enchanted Chicken Wing]]. There is a small table, with a column "Value in [[gp]]", this would be replaced by "Value" and "1 pair of [[Boots of Haste]]" or something could be added there, instead of in the notes. Actually, see [http://www.tibiawiki.com.br/wiki/Enchanted%20Chicken%20Wing on the br side of life].
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:56, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Hmm, so you don't mean intangibles (proposal 4) but item-item trades. The proposal is to create a new template for those trades. That fansite has |npcprice=1 [[Boots of Haste]] which personally I find to be very bad practice for a few reasons. I think we should stick with npcvalue/npcprice being strictly numerical values.
+A message box for unobtainable content should be created and added to [[Template:Status Messagebox‎]].
-When I have time I'll work on a template for it. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:36, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-See [[Template:Item Trades/Test]]. This is the first draft. Any suggestions on improving it?
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 19:11, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
-It uses the same format as the trade system does so it should be easy enough to adapt.
-Also I'm not sure about intangibles like the exhibition ticket on the test page ... we need to discuss that. I don't mind having it in notes or in a table personally. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:20, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Ok, no problem. Maybe somebody should review the exact message on [[Template:Unobtainable]]. It could be reworded to make it more clear.
-The green/red background is not neccesary because there is only one possible price? Or did you just ommit this in the draft version? For the rest it looks good, only the wording "items received" seems a little.. I don't know.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:25, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:22, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Re: wording -- Deprecated means "removed from the game". If we adopt another status, it should be as generic as possible, e.g. status=obsolete would imply that the entity in question is in the game files but not used. As it stands, all objects (as opposed to items) would be considered as unobtainable, hence the classification does not make any sense.
-It's a template for trades which cannot be supported by the trade system so of course it will have fewer features. Getting the info for a background would be hard or impossible with what we're trying to achieve. Consider what happens if you could trade 1 item for 3 different items or vice versa: we would need a well-formed list syntax, then we'd need to sum all the items' npcvalue/npcprice... it would be a nightmare. Better to stick with a free-form list and no background I think.
-Not sure about the headers. Edit them as you wish. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:52, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
+Re: task -- good job, this needed to be done. IMO the only things that should ever be on an item page is a template and a note at the top of the page for any disambiguation (I wouldn't be against putting that in the templates too). This makes it more consistent, readable and writable because our editors won't have to concern themselves with how to mark a page as deprecated (without, you know, breaking every single page that transcludes it).
+-- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:08, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Good job, Bennie! It seems you missed some items with <code><nowiki>{{deprecated}}</nowiki></code> such as [[Old Wands and Rods]].
-Nice job, Sixorish! :)
+I agree with Sixorish that ''unobtainable'' is not the most suited word. ''Obsolete'', however, sounds like the page info might not be accurate even though we can keep it accurate if the obsolete item in question can be found in the Market. But I believe this would be an exception worth of reporting to Cip.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 16:10, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I made a variant. What do you think of [[Template:Transport]], see example on [[Gewen]].
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:46, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I like your template, Bennie!<br/ >
-By the way, you should add a note explaining the requirement for the passage to Farmine.
+What about TS-only entities that became obsolete vs. TS-only entities that became deprecated? Should we classify both of them as ''TS-only'' even when there is a clear difference between them?
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 12:36, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 10:35, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
-== Restyling / restructuring? ==
+== Welcome, Molx! ==
-What do you guys think about a major revamp of our template styles and/or how they are presented? We've had the current style pretty much since inception, maybe it's time for an update.
+I knew this had to happen some day. Welcome! -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 15:55, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
-(no ideas just yet, just wondering about the concept)
+----
+Welcome, Lee! :)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 16:03, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
-To be clear: not expecting a massive change that requires 5000 edits, just changes to our templates. Could be as simple as a change of background color or repositioning of information within them.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 06:29, November 8, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-That's ok, but I like it if all infobox templates look alike (so any change should apply to all of them). And I think the text in the [[Template:Infobox Book]] needs a nicer font than simply monospaced unformatted.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 07:24, November 8, 2012 (UTC)
-: [[Template:Config]] boom <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 09:41, November 13, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Agreed. We could also do some revamp on the main page. I don't want to go off-topic but I've been thinking we could also include relevant news from Tibia.com. —'''[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]]''' ([[User talk:Arkshi|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Arkshi|contribs]]) 14:00, November 8, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-I think the change would be good no matter how dramatic or small the change may be. [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 01:31, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
-I agree with the restructuring of templates and Main Page.
+Thank you guys! I always liked giving back to the fansites that help us so much, and when I came back to Tibia this year I started to learn a little bit more about how TibiaWiki works and started to admire even more the great work so many people have done here (I mean, reading and writing the Wikia templates and DPL markup/code is harder than any programming language, haha).
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 22:19, November 11, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-What do you guys think about a link to Tibia.com for the creature pages? See an example: [[User:Bennie/Amazon]]. I put the link in the "bottomleft" parameter, maybe an icon would be better than text.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:27, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-It's a good idea, but I think people will overlook that link. Maybe it should be renamed to <code><nowiki>{{SUBPAGENAME}} on Tibia.com</nowiki></code> or something else.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 12:46, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Won't be that easy...try these: cultists (cultacolyte), Enraged Crystal Golems (crystalgolem), Damaged Crystal Golem (none) they would have to be added on a per-creature basis. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:22, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
-----
-Yeah, I already saw that. Will be too much work I'm afraid. Unless we ask CIP to make their page titles more similar to the creature names..
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 15:33, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
-----
+I'm looking forward to fix my own wrongly named pages! :P
-== Possible access problems ==
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 16:51, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
-Some people have posted on tibia.com forums they are facing problems to access TibiaWiki, on these threads {{Thread|3852551|1}} and {{Thread|3853505|2}}. I've asked for further details on both but didn't get more information, except {{Thread|33978953|this}}. Any idea what's happening? <br />—[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]] 00:54, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
 ----
+Welcome Molx! We don't have an article on how to be an admin, but feel free to play around with all the new buttons and functionality you can now access. Most things can be undone :) On [[Special:Specialpages]] you'll see more pages you can access and [[TibiaWiki:Maintenance Project|this project]] lists some things you can do. And obviously, feel free to ask any questions!
-I had this earlier and it happens occassionally, it will be to do with Wikia that we have these issues. Sometimes/often in these times you'll see that Wikia.com also won't load. [[User:Beejay|Beejay]] ([[User talk:Beejay|talk]]) 01:03, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:13, November 22, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
-I don't know what is going on but it definitely isn't affecting me. I have been on the site a lot since Lightbearer started, and only once encountered an issue where the database was locked for maintenance... that was for ~10 mins and didn't affect page viewing. Maybe one of Wikia's CDNs (regional) are having problems? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 01:24, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
+Thank you Bennie. I was actually thinking if such article existed, and I'll play around with the new buttons and special pages. :)
-== Chart Extension ==
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 16:21, November 23, 2017 (UTC)
-Hello,
+== Our Taxonomy ==
-I was thinking about requesting to enable a [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Pchart4mw chart extension] (doesn't have to be exactly this one) to plot some data. Uses you can think about:
-*CIP revenue on [[CipSoft GmbH]];
-*magic level, speed, or other skills progress over level;
-*[[Experience]] needed over level;
-*Certain statistical data like ice sculpturing, clay etc. and [[Achievements]] which are based on statistics.
+'''1.''' I have recently finalised my reworking of our taxonomic system. This needed to be done for the following reasons:
-The reason for using a MW extension is to be able to edit the data on the wikipage, instead of having to rely on third-party software (like MS Excel) to render the graphs. Wikia might want some community support, so what do you think?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:13, January 11, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-:I like graphs. <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 08:42, January 11, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-While I don't mind it I don't think Wikia will do it unless there is a significant use for it. We have maybe 10 pages that could use a chart, we might as well create images ourselves? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:34, January 11, 2013 (UTC)
+'''1.1''' ''Forced distinctions'': The current system includes several distinctions which are not really there. If B is a subspecies of A, it makes no sense to pretend this is not the case and give both A and B their own pages and taxonomic categories (see e.g. [[Undead Humanoids]] erroneously excluding [[Vampires]]).
-== Wikitable not working under infobox templates ==
+'''1.2''' ''Muddled definitions'': Taxonomies with double entries are not taxonomies. However, some of the categories we use have been so badly defined that boundaries fade away and overlaps start occurring, something which in turn leads to double entries. The [[Thornfire Wolf]], for example, is classified both in [[Canines]] and in [[Pyro-Elementals]]; however, elementals are 'freaks' of nature even in Tibia and can in no way ''also'' be classified as anything that actually exists as a fully natural part of the Tibian universe.
-As the title says, wikitable is not working when used in infobox templates (tested with the item and creature ones)
+'''1.3''' ''Superstrate categories'': Superstrate categories have no place in taxonomies because they operate on one level higher and simply select for a random trait (rather than race) that could occur across several taxonomic categories. This is why I removed categories such as [[Bosses]] from our taxonomy; it's obviously a very important page to have on the wiki, but it can only exist outside of our official taxonomy.
-I tried to add the following on the minor crystalline token page, but the table didnt shown up:
+'''2.''' Some notes on my reworking:
-{| class="wikitable sortable"
-|-
-! Tokens
-! Items received
-|-
-| 2
-|[[Gnomish Supply Package]]
-|-
-| 8
-| [[Muck Remover]]
-|-
-| 10
-| [[Red Teleport Crystal]]
-|-
-| 15
-| [[Crystal Lamp]]
-|-
-| 15
-| [[Mushroom Backpack]]
-|-
-| 70
-| [[Gnomish Voucher Type CA1]]
-|-
-| 70
-| [[Gnomish Voucher Type MA1]]
-|}
+'''2.1''' ''Single entries:'' Every single creature can only be part of one category.
-Any idea how to fix it? <br />—[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]] 21:48, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-Yes, this is because you are trying to use the pipe character (and maybe curly bracket) in a template. One work around is: use <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki> instead of the pipe character. The code will look ugly, I know, but hey..
-<pre>
-{{{!}} class="wikitable sortable"
-{{!}}-
-! Tokens
-! Items received
-{{!}}-
-{{!}} 2
-{{!}}[[Gnomish Supply Package]]
-{{!}}-
-{{!}} 8
-{{!}} [[Muck Remover]]
-{{!}}-
-{{!}} 10
-{{!}} [[Red Teleport Crystal]]
-{{!}}-
-{{!}} 15
-{{!}} [[Crystal Lamp]]
-{{!}}-
-{{!}} 15
-{{!}} [[Mushroom Backpack]]
-{{!}}-
-{{!}} 70
-{{!}} [[Gnomish Voucher Type CA1]]
-{{!}}-
-{{!}} 70
-{{!}} [[Gnomish Voucher Type MA1]]
-{{!}}}
-</pre>
+'''2.1.1''' This isn't always as straightforward, as certain names and appearances can give off ambiguous signals. This is why we need clear defintions that lead to well-defined boundaries. The name and appearance of a creature such as [[Demon Skeleton]], for example, could be interpreted as hinting towards two different categories. Clearly establishing that [[The Undead]] can only ever be animated by necromantic spirit and [[Demons]] only ever by demonic spirit, however, will remove all ambiguity and lead to one clear answer.
-I used jEdit to do a quick search and replace, it's a powerful tool for text manipulation (with regular expressions you can do really amazing stuff very fast).
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 22:33, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-Thanks Bennie! =)
+'''2.1.2''' It's not just about definitions and boundaries, though. Something that is also important is that we view every individual creature holistically and base our decision on all available information regarding that creature. A name such as [[Demon Parrot]] might indicate that this creature is, just like the [[Demon Skeleton]], animated by demonic spirit. However, looking into the context we have available will reveal that all [[Isle of Evil]] creatures were genetically altered by [[Doctor Perhaps]] to serve his evil purposes; [[Demon Parrot]]s are therefore nothing but evil birds with a menacing name.
-I'll take a look on that program for sure. <br />—[[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]] 12:29, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
-::Notepad++ is pretty good too 13:08, January 13, 2013 (UTC)
+'''2.1.3''' The only exceptions to this rule would currently be the [[Lord of the Elements]] and [[Mutated Zalamon]], but that's because they're literally multiple creatures in one. (I don't feel that the other [[Shapeshifters]] fit the bill because they don't throw away their entire 'identity' every time they shapeshift. This is hard to explain and a lot more subjective than I'd like it to be, but we can work out those specifics together.)
-== TibiaML security concern ==
+'''2.2''' ''Balance broad–narrow'': Some categories had to be broadened a bit because they didn't taxonomically include all creatures listed on their pages. Narrowing a category, on the other hand, felt appropriate when dealing with taxa containing a great diversity of creatures, especially if those creatures are also very salient (both in users' real-life experience and in-game experience). How salient a creature is in someone's experience can influence their perception of diversity to a great extent. Lumping all molluscs in the same category wouldn't nonplus users as much as lumping all chordates in the same category, for example, even though both Mollusca and Chordata are phyla and therefore on the same taxonomic level; there's simply more perceived diversity within Chordata because those are the most salient animals in people's lives.
-Should we remove links from our pages for the time being while TibiaML is sorting out their malware problems?
+'''2.3''' ''Nomenclature'': The nomenclature used for the lower-tier categories is as exact and taxonomically valid as possible. The nomenclature used for the upper-tier categories can't be very exact or taxonomically valid for various reasons. [[Invertebrates]] is not in any way a taxonomic category, for example, but convenient nomenclature like that certainly helps give more order to our taxonomy by keeping it from being one big messy amalgam of all lower-tier categories.
-Especially on [[Mapper]] and our loot stats pages. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 20:59, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-I was about to say yes, but then I visited en.tibiaml.com one second ago and it gave no malware warning anymore..
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 21:30, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-As Bennie said, they think they got rid of it.
+'''3.''' The system below is what I've come up with while doing my best to keep all of the above in mind.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 09:13, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
+{{Navbox
-== Loot changes between version ==
+| name  = Creature Types
+| title = [[Creatures|Creature Types of Tibia]]
+| listclass = hlist
+| image = [[File:Ferumbras.gif|alt=Creature Types of Tibia|link=Creatures]]
+| group1 = [[Amphibians]]
+| list1  =
+* [[Anurans]]
+* [[Njey]]
+* [[Quara]]
+* [[Urodelans]]
+| group2 = [[Birds]]
-Since the creation of the hunting ground council, we will likely see loot changes between versions. That means version is no longer relevant because the loot can change today or tomorrow or any other day. What should we do about this? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:12, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
+| list2 =
-----
+* [[Aequorlitornithes]]
-You are Arkshi should try to ask CIP to post every single loot change, so we can adjust them. We will have to make our own version numbers, e.g. 9.8a, 9.8b, 9.8c. This wouldn't interfere with a CIP number update to 9.81 or something.
+* [[Columbavians]]
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:15, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
+* [[Galloanseres]]
-----
+* [[Inopinavians]]
-I was going to say the same thing Bennie said about adding a letter after the actual client version.
+| group3 = [[Elementals]]
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 13:43, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
+| list3  =
-----
+* [[Bio-Elementals|Bio-]]
-Sounds like the best option, indeed. <br>[[User:Art Featherpitch|Art Featherpitch]] ([[User Talk:Art Featherpitch|talk]]) 16:33, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
+* [[Electro-Elementals|Electro-]]
-----
+* [[Geo-Elementals|Geo-]]
-Consider [[Loot:Rat]].
+* [[Hydro-Elementals|Hydro-]]
-:''Statistics made after Update 9.63.''
+* [[Pyro-Elementals|Pyro-]]
-Updates/9.63 contains the date of the update.
+| group4 = [[Fish]]
-Now consider:
+| list4  =
-:''Statistics made after Update 9.9a.''
+* [[Actinopterygians]]
-Should Updates/9.9 contain dates for every single loot adjustment (9.9a, 9.9b, ...)? Should we have a page for Updates/9.9a?
+* [[Chondrichthians]]
+| group5 = [[Humanoids]]
-And is this future-proof? Consider the case that they add a new project similar to this (changing something but not changing the version number) should Updates/9.9 contain a table with update IDs and descriptions of what changed?
+| list5 =
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 06:14, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
+* [[Astral Shapers]]
-----
+* [[Chakoyas]]
-I don't know. Let's just wait and see what happens and think of a solution at that moment.
+* [[Cyclopes]]
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:40, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
+* [[Dwarves]]
-----
+* [[Dworcs]]
+* [[Elves]]
+* [[Frost Giants]]
+* [[Gnomes]]
+* [[Goblins]]
+* [[Ogres]]
+* [[Orclopses]]
+* [[Orcs]]
+* [[Trolls]]
+| group6 = [[Immortals]]
-== Vandal:VANDAL'S USERNAME ==
+| list6 =
+* [[Animated Objects]]
+* [[Demons]]
+* [[Djinn]]
+* [[Fae]]
+* [[Magic Entities]]
+* [[The Undead]]
+| group7 = [[Invertebrates]]
-Hello. I want to add links, why am I not able to and how can I do it?
+| list7 =
+* [[Arachnids]]
+* [[Bonelords]]
+* [[Cephalopods]]
+* [[Clitellates]]
+* [[Gastropods]]
+* [[Insects]]
+* [[Malacostracans]]
+* [[Medusozoans]]
+* [[Myriapods]]
+| group8 = [[Mammals]]
-I tried to add a link here: http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Skull_System
+| list8  =
+* [[Bovids]]
+* [[Camelids]]
+* [[Canids]]
+* [[Cervids]]
+* [[Chiropterans]]
+* [[Elephantids]]
+* [[Equids]]
+* [[Eulipotyphlans]]
+* [[Felids]]
+* [[Humans]]
+* [[Hyaenids]]
+* [[Lagomorphs]]
+* [[Musteloids]]
+* [[Prehumans]]
+* [[Rhinocerotids]]
+* [[Rodents]]
+* [[Suids]]
+* [[Ursids]]
+| group9 = [[Reptiles]]
-To external links at bottom of page to site: tibiatool.com/unjusts
+| list9 =
+* [[Crocodilians]]
+* [[Dragons]]
+* [[Draken]]
+* [[Lacertids]]
+* [[Serpents]]
+* [[Testudinians]]
+}}
+'''3.1''' ''Amphibians'': No changes.
-Sincerely,<br />
-[[User:MYUSERNAME]]
-----
-Because you shouldn't. We have restrictions on what URLs can be linked to, which include well-known trusted sites and supported/promoted sites. This is neither. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 06:06, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
+'''3.2''' ''Birds'': Not that many birds to speak of in Tibia, but since birds are one of the most salient animal realms in real-life (alongside amphibians, fish, mammals, and reptiles), I thought it best to move this category to the upper tier of our two-tiered system and make some very basic distinctions within (all are between the levels of class and order) to determine the lower-tier categories.
-== Rune spellwords ==
+'''3.3''' ''Elementals'': This category would now directly represent only the four basic elements of Tibia as well as the [[Bio-Elementals]]. [[Blobs]] and [[Elemental Lords]] dissolve (as they have nothing to do with race), whereas [[Cryo-Elementals]] moves in with [[Hydro-Elementals]] and [[Magma-Elementals]] with [[Geo-Elementals]].
-:You see a chameleon rune ("adevo ina"). It can only be used by players with level 27 and magic level 4 or higher. It weighs 2.10 oz.
+'''3.4''' ''Fish'': See 3.2. Both categories are classes, so the only distinction I made was made relatively high up in the taxonomy tree.
-So far in [[Template:Infobox Item]] we can accommodate for everything in this string except the spellwords after the name. Each rune item page does have the spellwords defined, we need to make changes to the template to support this. How should we do this?
+'''3.5''' ''Humanoids'': [[Giants]] doesn't select for race and had to be removed. It fell apart into ''Cyclopes'', ''Frost Giants'', and ''Ogres''. [[Behemoth]] moved to ''Bovids'', [[Thundergiant]] to [[Geo-Elementals]] (that's what Cip called it when it was introduced), and I'm quite convinced [[Yeti]]s are not so much [[Apes]] but rather overgrown [[Chakoyas]] (they have a similar 'moustache' and also share their bright blue eyes with the [[Chakoya Tribewarden]]). [[Djinn]] and [[Fae]] are part of  ''Immortals''. [[Corym]] are part of ''Rodents''. [[Minotaurs]] are part of ''Bovids''.
-I am thinking a small text under the name but before the flavortext, i.e.:
-<div style="padding: 0 0 0 1em;">
-<span style="font-size:1.5em;">Chameleon Rune</span><br />
-<span style="font-size:1.1em;">("adevo ina")</span><br />
-<span style="color:green;">'''It can only be used by players with level 27 and magic level 4 or higher.'''</span>
-</div>
-What do you guys think? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 23:00, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
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-I wouldn't use parenthesises and quotation marks, just another font color of size would be distinguishing enough. The place seems ok. I'd prefer a smaller font size.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 23:40, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
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-Good idea, go for it!<br />
-Since we are talking about infobox templates, something need to be fixed on the <i>flavortext</i> of items that require level but no magic level to use, like [[Cure Poison Rune (Item)]], [[Light Magic Missile Rune]], [[Lightest Magic Missile Rune]] and [[Poison Field Rune]]. If we remove the field "mlrequired", the displayed <i>flavortext</i> is the correct one, but I think it would bug dpl lists like the one on [[Runes]] page.
+'''3.6''' ''Immortals'': Anything that is completely outside of Tibian nature fits in this category. ''Animated Objects'' is exactly what it looks like but also eats up our current [[Machines]] category as well as most of the [[Traps]] category. [[Demons]] used to be an upper-tier category, but its lower-tier categories either resulted from forced distinctions or the setting apart of [[cabal]]s. ''Magic Entities'' is an entirely new category that should include all intangible expressions of magic (see e.g. [[Lost Time]] or [[Wild Fury Magic]]). [[The Undead]] suffered from issues similar to those suffered by [[Demons]].
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 00:34, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
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-Good job, Six! :-)
+'''3.7''' ''Mammals'': The reason I've included so many family categories here is because of the notion of perceived diversity I mentioned in 2.2. [[Mustelids]] had to be broadened to ''Musteloids'' because it didn't actually include skunks. I felt [[Ungulates]] made use of too basic a distinction, so I split it up into ''Bovids'', ''Camelids'', ''Cervids'', ''Elephantids'', ''Equids'', ''Rhinocerotids'', and ''Suids''. [[Mutated Mammals]] doesn't select for race and was removed. ''Prehumans'' was the only label (it's an actual term, although not a taxonomic one) I could think of to replace [[Apes]] without continuing to imply humans should be part of it. Since [[Lycanthropes]] is racially all over the place and doesn't really work as its own category, I've decided to consider them humans who in their animal form only count as animals.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 23:41, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
+'''3.8''' ''Invertebrates'': Since Mollusca is quite a diverse phylum, I decided to go one level lower and split it up into the classes of ''Cephalopods'' and ''Gastropods''. Annelida is less outwardly diverse but also a phylum, so renaming it after the class of ''Clitellates'' seemed appropriate (the other two extant Annelida classes are primarily marine and therefore wouldn't make much sense as far as Tibian worms go). With Crustacea being a subphylum and the only crustaceans in Tibia being crabs and relatives, calling them all ''Malacostracans'' is a more specific way of grouping them. The phylum of Cnidaria is very diverse and the only Tibian creature it would include is better off in the subphylum of ''Medusozoans''. [[Hive Born]] was removed because it doesn't select for race.
-== Creature loot revision ==
+'''3.9''' ''Reptiles'': The lowest taxonomic rank that includes all real-life lizards is the Squamata order, but since that label would also include all of the snakes I decided to go with the family of ''Lacertids'' (the prototypical group of lizards also known as the true lizards) to group all of our [[Lizards]] together. The [[Wyverns]] move here because they are nothing but flying lizards according to Tibia lore. Similarly, [[Hydras]] and [[Wyrms]] are nothing but [[Dragons]].
-Hello, I recently decided to do some revision concerning creatures loot. As a part of it I decided to make new rarity class 'rarest' for items, that have less than 0,1% chance to drop (so statistically you have to kill 1000+ monsters to get one item). It's just because items, that have chance to be dropped with chance 1:300 don't feel like being in the same class as items with chance 1:3000.
+'''4.''' Final notes:
-Unfortunatly I realized that there is small problem with algorithm that loads percentage chances of dropping item using loot statistics data. While it just ignores words '(semi-rare)', '(rare)' and '(very rare)' it don's ignore word '(rarest)' so if I load percentage data it looks bad. For exemple, if in creature loot is text 'item_a (rare), item_b (rarest)' then after loading percentage data it will become 'item_a (x.xx%), item_b (y.yy%) (rarest)'. (see [[Banshee]])
+'''4.1''' ''Non-racial splits'': I would definitely encourage certain non-racial splits within categorical pages. This way, links such as [[Voodoo Cultists]] can still point to a neatly organised list of all voodoo cultists without the implication they're somehow of a different race than all other humans. However, I don't think this is something that should be overused. Perpetuating the current distinction between [[Skeletons]] and the rest of [[The Undead]], for instance, seems rather pointless to me as far as user-friendliness is concerned.
-So, is there any chance that algorithm can be adjusted to word 'rarest' as well, or I should resign of this idea and change back words 'rarest' to 'very rare'?
+'''4.2''' ''Parameter improvements'': In order to progress towards a state where taxonomic categories and superstrate categories are two completely distinct elements, it would be best to further improve certain parameters to fulfil the functions our taxonomic parameters still sometimes fulfil. Category [[Event Creatures]], for example, still gets its information from the taxonomic parameters on creature pages; it would be a huge improvement in this case if the 'spawntype'-parameter were to be the parameter that would have the ability to assign this category instead.
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 12:23, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
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-What about 1:30000 and 1:300000? The same problem will just keep appearing. We drew the line at 'very rare' and I don't see a need to change it. Also as far as I know, there are no accepted standards, and each person has their own opinion on how things should be, which makes it difficult to place a rarity label. If anything we should adjust and standardize the current system to better fit our needs. There has been an effort to do this, but it didn't go anywhere. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 17:01, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
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-There are no items with drop chance 1:30000 or 1:300000 (well, there is gold ring from Golden Servants, but I think it's more a mistake during uploading data via parser) so that argument isn't valid. Sure, we have to just put line somewhere (and I don't really want to change that line, I'm taking 2%-5% as semi-rare, 0,5%-2% as rare, 0,1%-0,5% as very rare during my creature loot revision), but I really think there is need to make new rarity class. Thinking, that chance for looting Stuffed Toad from a Witch or Reins from a Dark Apprentice is on the same level as looting Dragon Shield from a Dragon (all are considered very rare on their respective pages) is just wrong.
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 17:52, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
-: Grammatically as well, saying multiple things are THE rarest doesn't work. <br><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;">'''[[User:Craggles|<span style="color:#000091; cursor:"> Craggles </span>]]'''</span><span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ</span><span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;">&nbsp;[[User talk:Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Talk</font>]] ∙ [[Special:Contributions/Craggles|<font color="#6e86ff">Contribs</font>]] </span> 21:13, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
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-Yeah, I realized that already :p Just didn't come up with any better word that could fit...
+'''4.3''' ''NPC applications'': This taxonomy can also be applied to NPCs, which means they can simply be included on the same pages creatures use (but as part of a separate list, of course). Also, since I've come to the conclusion during my work on this new taxonomy that [[The Undead]] should certainly be treated as a completely separate race (with creatures 'giving up' their former racial identity once undead, so to speak), it would appear that Bennie's second comment on [[Talk:Adrenius#Race]] makes a lot more sense than mine! -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 18:09, November 29, 2017 (UTC)
-Oh well, seems that others don't like my idea. Tomorrow I will change all 'rarest' items back to 'very rare'.
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 23:18, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
 ----
+Wow, thanks for your extensive research on this Wouter!
-Hold your horses, I'm for this change. May I suggest "extraordinary"?<br>[[User:Art Featherpitch|Art Featherpitch]] ([[User Talk:Art Featherpitch|talk]]) 00:11, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
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-Zantax, good job on all the edits you made. I like your idea too, what about "extremely rare"? It's a good idea to define the rarity classes.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 05:40, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
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-Ok then. I think I like "extraordinary rare" more. Can I go with following intervals:
-* 100% always
-* [5%, 100%) (common)
-* [2%, 5%) semi-rare
-* [0,5%, 2%) rare
-* [0,1%, 0,5%) very rare
-* [0%, 0,1%) extraordinary rare
-or someone is really against them? I won't really defend those choices, just give me the numbers so I can continue my work.
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 09:02, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
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-Zantax, did you see [[Rareness|this]] and its talkpage already?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 12:13, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
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-Yes, I did. My intervals are quite similar to those on this page, but I don't think there is a need to mage "uncommon" class. Also I think upper boundary 5% for semi-rare 'looks' better, because its 1:20 chance, not 1:17,28~ chance with 7%.
+I have no fundamental problems with implementing this new classification. Some questions which come to mind are:
-STILL, I don't really want to discus about those numbers. Tell me to use those on that page and what should be interval for extraordinary rare items, and I will be OK with that. Administrators are people, who should think about that, I'm here just to do some work :p
+* Is it really necessary to make such extensive use of latin names? Or are these all English names I simply don't know? Anyways, if there are more simple English names (see [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctoidea wikipedia] Ursidae simply redirects to Bear) I would prefer them over latin ones, for several reasons:
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 13:00, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
+** Then I won't have to look it up;
-----
+** It is very likely the above counts for other people as well, I think a lot of people visiting our wiki are not taxonomy experts;
-First of all, thank you for your motivatation and dedication.<br />
+** It therefore keeps our wiki more accessible.
-Personally, I like your idea, but I would use <i>"extremely rare"</i> instead of <i>"extraordinary rare"</i>. And, as the interval, (0%, 0,1%) instead of [0%, 0,1%). ;-)<br />
+However, this is not a deal breaker, I can also see reasons to actually use those latin names, to be more precise and have no ambiguity what the boundaries of the category are.
-Let's see what other admins have to say about this topic.
+* Reading between the lines, it seems you used our current 2-tiered system as a given starting point. In my opinion, this was an arbitrary choice, it is perfectly fine to change this to a 3-tiered system or even more, if that would make more sense. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this.
+Regarding "parameter improvement", that is certainly feasible. We have the tooling to change templates and mass-edit pages, so if you have some concrete propositions we can execute them.
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 14:06, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:01, November 29, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+Good job, Wouterboy!
-Another level of rareness seems reasonable but i do not care much for loot statistics myself. <br />"Extraordinar'''ily''' Rare" would be correct grammar although i have never heard that term used whereas "extremely rare" is a common phrase in my experience. --[[User:DM|DM]] ><((°> [[Special:Contributions/DM|Contribs]] <°))>< [[User_talk:DM|talk to me]] 23:44, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
-: Exactly!
-: [[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 23:56, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
+I had the same thoughts as Bennie concerning the nomenclature and the possibility of third tiers when suited (e.g for humans).
-== Ghastly Dragons loot statistics problem ==
+I had a feeling that Cip based on our current taxonomy to classify monsters in Cyclopedia's Bestiary. We should create a new parameter for that [[Bestiary Creature Classes|different classification]] and create pages for those classes (redirect them to the new taxonomy pages?).
-Hello, I had no idea where to leave this note, so I dedided to leave it here. I hope it will be forgiven to me, if it's a bad place ;p
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 19:37, November 29, 2017 (UTC)
-When I started to edit Ghastly Dragon's loot section it came to me, that statistics concerning chance of dropping Great Health Potions are weird. Such low chance was just weird. Of course I know that some creatures drop 'common' and  'ordinary' items in very low quantities, but I checked history of loot statistics' revisions and discovered, that all 9 Great Health Potions were added in revision by 19:24, August 1, 2012‎ by user Jeanvaljeann. Before him and after him none of potions were dropped, and thats 9000 kills. The easiest explanation is that that user started collecting data before update 9.5 (Great Health Potions were quite common before that update).
-I was thinking what to do with that. I was considering removing all data from that revision, but because there was just 9 potions from 3500 kills, and because before update potions were dropped with chance ~10%, it seems that only like 100 kills that were added were from previous update. Such small quantity can't have big impact on data from 12000 kills, so I decided to leave that data as it is. However, for obvious reasons I decided to remove Great Health Potions from loot statistics page.
-So, this message is just for anyone interested to know, what and why I have done on Ghastly Dragon's loot statistics page :p
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 16:45, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
 ----
+#I'm very well aware that the nomenclature used can be very alienating to many of our users. However, this is simply the language of taxonomy and taxonomy is an exact matter. In your example, ''Ursids'' and ''Bears'' can only be used fully interchangeably because both can only refer to the family of bears. If you were to replace e.g. ''Anurans'' with ''Frogs'', though, you'll be inviting ambiguity, as ''Frogs'' can refer both to the order Anura as well as to any family of frogs. A statement such as “Toads are frogs.” can therefore be both right and wrong depending on what taxon you are referring to exactly. No such ambiguity is possible when using the official scientific terminology, as any term can refer to one taxon only. Moreover, many such taxa don't even ''have'' a colloquial English equivalent.
-The same problem also occurs for [[Loot:Demon]] and [[Demon (Goblin)]]. I don't think the GHP can be removed that easily because even a small error is an error. I don't think they changed just that minor GHP addition either so the error persists, possibly across the entire loot table. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 17:34, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
+#I have indeed considered going from a two-tier system to a three-tier system, but I didn't think that would make any more sense. I feel that doing that would make our taxonomy too cluttered and cumbersome. Finding the right broad–narrow balance for our lower-tier categories and loosely organising them within convenient upper-tier categories is the ideal system for this wiki in my opinion.
+#My first concrete proposition regarding parameter improvements would be the one I mentioned in 4.2. (By extension, a similar parameter could be used for [[Quest Items]]/[[Quest Objects]], since those categories are also superstrate and shouldn't be used to actually classify items and objects. There's no point in implementing something like that without first uniting the two infoboxes, though.)
+#Hunter, only sometimes making use of a third tier would simply be inconsistent. Moreover, this idea would literally be impossible to apply to your example, since all current humans belong to the subspecies ''Homo sapiens sapiens'' and there's simply no way of going lower than that. That's the reason I'm a supporter of the non-racial splits I mentioned in 4.1. Anyone looking for the [[Voodoo Cultists]], for example, would still be able to find all of them together under their own heading and in their own list on the ''Humans'' page through a '' Voodoo Cultists'' redirect that points to ''Humans#Voodoo Cultists''.
+#We should indeed create a parameter for what bestiary class a creature falls into, but I don't think we should create pages for those classes. That would make it seem as if we're using two competing taxonomies at the same time, which would only confuse users. I think it would be best if we use [[Bestiary Creature Classes]] to list all creatures by their bestiary entry in collapsible lists and have the parameter link to and automatically open the right list, e.g. ''bestiaryclass = aquatic'' would link to and automatically open the list for ''Bestiary Creature Classes#Aquatic''. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 18:00, December 1, 2017 (UTC)
 ----
+As far as the latter part of point 4 is concerned, I've already thought of a better solution. It would actually make more sense to retain the [[Voodoo Cultists]] page (and similar pages) as it is (but outside of our taxonomy), because even though it doesn't have anything to do with race, it's still concerned with a coherent group of creatures that 'belong' together. This way we won't have to break the DPL on taxonomy pages to create separate lists specifically for such groups. We could even create an entirely new parameter that's concerned with non-racial grouping (so it wouldn't function as a third tier of our taxonomy but rather be completely independent of it) that would only be applied where appropriate and which would give the user a bit more creature context beyond race. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 12:07, December 2, 2017 (UTC)
-Nope, the problem with Ghastly dragons it that some of data were from before 9.5 update. As I said number of 'wrong' kills should be low but if you are that much concerned about that, I can remove all that bad data added by Jeanvaljeann.
-The problem with Demons and goblin imposters is because those are two monsters with the same name and different loot. While deleting loot from goblins don't fix problem completly the only problem with Demon's loot statistics can be small reduction of chance of dropping items, and sligtly decresed average amount of gold. That problem can be fixed however (well, only temporarily -> newly added data can be still incorrect) by checking revisions one-by-one and deciding if they are correct or not. Well, I can do that eventually, but that can be a lot of mind-numbing work...
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 18:03, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
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-After some thought I decided to remove all data added in that revision after all. I reduced number of kills, number of drops and total amount of all items, so data should be correct now. As I expected percentage chance changes are quite minor, but oh well, at least that one error is fixed.
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 12:06, April 30, 2013 (UTC)
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+Thumbs up for non-racial groups. :)
-Heh, it seems that the same problem is with [[Loot Statistics:Giant Spider]] and Brass Legs...
+Should we make those groups for all lower tier classes listed in [[Template:Creature Types]] that are not going to be part of the new taxonomy?
-There are 2 revisions that added drop of that items. First, made on June 11, 2012 by Mmarzec is clearly made from kills before update 9.5. It's easy to spot, because in update 9.5 average number of gp from Giant Spider were massively increased - from ~25gp to ~90 gp, and average number of gp dropped by 20 Giant Spiders added by Mmarzec is 28,6. So, those data are wrong, and I will remove them later.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 13:51, December 2, 2017 (UTC)
-The second revision was made by Sez6 on May 21, 2012. This time the thing, that added data are wrong is not so clear. Average number of gp from 59 Giant Spider is 75,2, what is quite possible statistically. However I simply refuse to acknowledge the fact, that chance of droping that 'uninteresting' item is like 1:9000. Therefore I will remove data from this one revision as well.
+----
+We should for many of them, yes. Some of them don't fit the bill, though. Take for example [[Skeletons]]. It's just a mishmash of undead creatures that happen to have a certain aspect of their appearance in common; they don't actually form a specific 'clan' like the [[Voodoo Cultists]] do and are therefore not similar to one another in a way that matters, i.e. the connection this page establishes between the creatures is completely random and not useful to our users. The [[Voodoo Cultists]] page, on the other hand, clearly deals with creatures that 'belong' together and can be useful to our users in finding out what other creatures can generally be found in e.g. an [[Acolyte of the Cult]]'s vicinity. The [[The Ruthless Seven]] page can be useful because it deals with a connection that was made for us by [[Cipsoft]] themselves (otherwise we wouldn't have had any reason to group them together in the first place), and so on. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 14:02, December 3, 2017 (UTC)
-If someone have something against that please leave note here.
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 12:52, April 30, 2013 (UTC)
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+I think our system as well as yours both seem to make unnecessary resemblance to some real-world categorization. Taxonomic categorizations rely on evolutionary or genetic characteristics which are obviously out of scope for a fantasy game. CipSoft can invent a new species that clearly overlaps two categories. CipSoft can implement, say, an amphibian/bird hybrid. Hence, your system is not robust; it does not resist the addition of hybrid species. I feel like a hierarchical structure is inappropriate for this reason; it assumes a well-defined structure that does not exist because Tibia does not conform to the laws of nature. How can we infer about creatures in a fantasy setting based on our understanding of a real world? We can't. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 15:24, December 4, 2017 (UTC)
-I found another problem of that type in [[Loot Statistics:Banshee]], item [[Dirty Cape]]. First 7 items were added by user The Pox on December 26, 2010 (1784 kills) and other 7 by user Glotzer on July 2, 2010 (33 kills). Because other added 11000 banshee didn't drop even 1 dirty cape, it's clearly a mistake. I will remove those data tommorow.
-[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 20:39, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
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+I see your point, but most of the time we ''can'' in fact infer about Tibian creatures based on our understanding of the real world because Tibia's foundation ''is'' the real world. Tibia therefore mostly ''does'' conform to the laws of nature and a somewhat well-defined structure therefore ''does'' exist. Refusing to acknowledge Tibia's real-life foundations would mean to misrepresent the game, something which just seems gratuitously deceitful to me. CipSoft used these foundations as their starting point and simply remoulded them to allow for the inclusion of fantasy creatures, and we can do exactly the same with our taxonomy by using real-life scientific classification as our starting point and then remoulding that.
-You are doing a good job, thank you.
+As far as hybrid species are concerned, they already exist: we have the [[Rorc]], the [[Forest Fury]], [[Lycanthropes]], etc. (and to respond to your amphibian/bird hybrid example: any bird able to breathe through its skin can scientifically speaking never be considered a bird, so it wouldn't cause us any problems ''exactly because'' our taxonomy uses real-life scientific classification as its foundation). I've considered such cases and I personally think they should only be classified as the species they are primarily, i.e. as the one species that defines them most: Rorcs and Forest Furies are ''in essence'' still [[Orcs]] and [[Elves]] respectively despite their mutations, whereas the Lycanthropes in their particular state are more beast than man and therefore better classified as animals. Using such self-dictated guidelines to circumvent any overlaps we might encounter in the fantasy department in order to make our taxonomy more robust seems like a rational thing to do, especially since I reckon overlaps are always going to be hard to avoid regardless of whatever taxonomic system we might be using. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 23:44, December 4, 2017 (UTC)
-Since we are talking about loot statistics, a problem that annoys me is that some creatures that had their loot updated in 8.7 patch still use loot statistics from 8.6 and thus the items adde in 8.7 look rarer, like reins from dark apprentices and sweet smelling bait from banshees. Is there any easy way to fix that? — [[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]] 22:01, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
-::Well, we can always "restart" their statistics and collect new data from scratch, just like we do when a creature has had its loot tweaked.<br>[[User:Art Featherpitch|Art Featherpitch]] ([[User Talk:Art Featherpitch|talk]]) 04:49, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
-::::Well, I didn't know that such problem exist. However, it can be solved very easly, because we can check (via page history) which data were added after the date, when update 8.7 was launched, remove them from 'Statistics made after Update 8.6.' table and create new 'Statistics made after Update 8.7.' table using that data. The only thing that I can't do is to update loot parser, so newly added data for that monsters wil go to '8.7. table', not '8.6. table' like it is now. I would also need a list of monsters that are affected by this problem (or are they only those, which got tamming item in their loot in update 8.7?).[[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 11:44, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 ----
+You have solid arguments, although it very obviously introduces subjectivity in the decision-making process when overlapping species are added. However, the usefulness of either system is inhibited by the fact that few of our users actually care for taxonomic classification, because it doesn't help them to decide what to hunt or what drops a particular item. Thus, a hierarchical classification is mostly a "nice to have" feature. I would be accepting of your suggestion under the expectation that ''none of our internal systems rely on such a classification and the taxonomy is not designed around in-game features''. For example, [[The Colours of Magic]] has "party animals" and "spellcaster" creatures to which a reward applies. Our classification should be totally independent of any such systems (because we cannot regulate the game mechanics). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:16, December 5, 2017 (UTC)
-It was decided somewhere a long time ago specifically not to do this because the addition of 1 extremely rare item is not worth starting from 0 kills again. Maybe our perspectives have changed because we have more statistics contributors now. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 12:20, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
+----
-::I checked how many kills would be in affected monsters' "8.7 tables" (non-boss only) if we would use motod described above (that is how many kills were added after 10th of December, 2010). So, there are results:
+Strictly adhering to a single-entry system indeed adds a bit of subjectivity into the mix regarding hybrids, but most of the time one part of a hybrid creature does clearly tend to manifest itself more prominently and crucially than the other, meaning that the presupposition of some sort of instinctive consensus is not necessarily an absolutely laughable substitute for rationality. For instance, I think most people would agree that the fact that the [[Rorc]] was originally a purebred [[Orc]] should have more bearing on its classification than the [[Terror Bird]] part that's there solely as a result of mutation.
-::* [[Carniphilia]]: 18242 kills
-::* [[Dryad]]: 3084 kills
-::* [[Quara Predator]]: about 10000 kills
-::* [[Vampire Bride]]: 8251 kills
-::* [[Lich]]: 4702 kills
-::* [[Dark Apprentice]]: 33118 kills
-::* [[Dark Magician]]: 26248 kills
-::* [[Hunter]]: about 5000 kills
-::* [[Banshee]]: 10511 kills
-::* [[War Golem]]: 6235 kills
-::So, as you can see, while decision to not start again from 0 kills could be correct 2,5 years ago, there is no reason to not divide those data now. There are more than enouth to get good estimation of percentage chances using only kills added after 8.7 update. [[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 12:56, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
+You're also right in saying that a taxonomy is mostly a nice-to-have feature most users won't really care about, but at the same time I do feel a game-based wiki such as ours has the responsibility to create and maintain classification systems encompassing all members of a particular gameplay class (whether it be [[Creatures]], or [[Items]], or what have you) to allow anyone access to all members of any such class at once through the use of just one neatly organised hub.
-== Adding Java Applet ==
+I strived to make our new creature classification system as taxonomically sound as possible, which is why I purposely avoided incorporating anything into it that has to do with the 'role' a particular creature might have been assigned in-game. All that matters is what the creature itself really ''is'' in isolation, i.e. without paying regard to any external gameplay-related noise. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 00:32, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
-Hello Administrators!
+== Calculators not loading ==
-I'm wondering what the process is for including a simple java applet on a wikia page.  I created a simple GUI stopwatch that helps with tracking basins during Lightbearer.
+Hey guys, I noticed that the page [[Calculators]] is not working. It keeps loading indefinitely. I tested it on 5 different browsers (Windows 10) and they all have Javascript enabled. Can anyone take a look at it?
-It is essentially 10 countdown timers, each with the ability to update to a new custom time, or reset to 2 hours.  However basic it may be, I think this is extremely useful for anyone who wishes to help track basin times.
+[[User:Tyrodus Zeth|Tyrodus Zeth]] ([[User talk:Tyrodus Zeth|talk]]) 17:17, January 16, 2018 (UTC)
-Should this be something the tibia.wikia.com team is interested in, I will gladly provide the source code for this project.  Then an admin can validate the code, and embed the applet.
-[[User:Thoros the Red|Thoros the Red]] ([[User talk:Thoros the Red|talk]]) 14:20, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 ----
+As you can read in [[Talk:Calculators#Not working|its talk page]], it works on Firefox when using [{{fullurl:Calculators|useskin=monobook}} Monobook skin]. I'll ask Wikia / FANDOM to have a look at it and try to fix it.
-Do you mean Java or JavaScript? I hope you realize for a Java Applet to run the visitor must have Java installed on his computer. I think Java is starting to become old, less and less people use it. So, although I like your idea of a countdown, I'd suggest you rewrite it to Javascript, otherwise I wouldn't bet on it.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 15:11, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-Thanks for the response Bennie.
-I originally designed it as a simple java swing application, and figured the conversion to an applet would be the most direct way to embed this.
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:19, January 16, 2018 (UTC)
-However, you're right that a pure JS/html approach would be better.  I'll look into redesigning the timer and keep in touch here.
+== Lists filtering out Tibia History ==
-[[User:Thoros the Red|Thoros the Red]] ([[User talk:Thoros the Red|talk]]) 16:07, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-* Will it be local or on-site? You'd need to store this data somewhere, and to store it on a wiki page means an entry to [[Special:RecentChanges]] which will be very disruptive if hundreds of people are maintaining this 'clock'. If a small group of people are maintaining it, as in one person at a time, a local approach would be better, relying on cookies instead.
-* If we were to support Java applets we would need an extension installed. I don't think Wikia would support this because Java enabled raises a lot of security concerns.
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 19:54, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-Hello again Sixish!
+Hey guys,
-I was planning on designing it all to run locally on client, storing any needed information there. All tibia.wikia.com would have to do is provide the JS and associated HTML.  In theory I could include direct-link functionality similar to mapper, so one timekeeper can pass current clock status to another.
+I've noticed a lot of our DPL lists are excluding [[:Category:Tibia History]] still after the integration of history information in the main pages. This means that a lot of lists are potentially incomplete. If a DPL list is not showing something, this is most likely the problem. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:40, January 29, 2018 (UTC)
-I think this should be a viable route, would that work from your perspective?
-[[User:Thoros the Red|Thoros the Red]] ([[User talk:Thoros the Red|talk]]) 20:19, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 ----
+Good point, I will (soon) do a wiki-wide search on usage of this category in dpl lists and remove them if necessary.
-There's definitely potential. We could extend it to include other event-based timers, but let's try this for now. If you need any help, feel free to ask. Injecting JS here is a bit different because you don't have full control over the HTML (no <input> support, nor onload etc.) so there are some workarounds you'd have to use. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:35, May 23, 2013 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 18:48, January 29, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
+Oh wait, stupid me, I already did this in 2016 as I myself listed [[User:469Bot/Jobs|here]]. However, the case on [[Calculators]] was "|notcategory=Tibia History" (without a space between the pipe and notcategory). I will look for all variations, with or without spaces.
-Hey I may have some time this weekend to work on this.  I have a few questions that I hope you can answer, if you don't mind.
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 20:51, January 31, 2018 (UTC)
+:There was a space between the pipe and ''notcategory'' in [[Mounts]] which was fixed two days ago. Perhaps your bot account couldn't fix it because the page is protected.
-Is JQuery supported here on Wikia, and would that give me full access to the DOM and subsequent HTML?
+:[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:28, January 31, 2018 (UTC)
+::Probably true, my bot does not have admin rights (I don't want it to accidentally delete stuff). -- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:04, February 1, 2018 (UTC)
-You mentioned "JS here is a bit different."  Is there any documentation you can point me to?
+----
+I ran my bot but did not find any more cases which need to be fixed. Case closed.
-What is my best approach for testing on wikia?
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:40, February 3, 2018 (UTC)
-[[User:Thoros the Red|Thoros the Red]] ([[User talk:Thoros the Red|talk]]) 00:02, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
 ----
-Oh no, the JS is the same (i.e. depends only on browser implementation) but the MediaWiki software doesn't support "obtrusive" JS like JS events inside your HTML. For example these would not work:
-:&lt;input onclick="someFunction()" /&gt;
-:&lt;div onmousedown="someFunction()"&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
-But you can do this:
-:var ele = document.getElementById('element_id');
-:ele.onmousedown = function () {};
-:// or
-:ele.addEventListener('mousedown', function () {});
+== Owners of "rare" items in articles ==
-Also, scripts will be loaded in the head element, they will execute automatically on each page load, most likely before the page has fully loaded. Your script needs to handle the logic of when the main body loads (you can hook it to the load event, use MediaWiki's addOnloadHook() or jQuery's $.ready()). We're using jQuery version 1.8.2.
+When wiki started many years ago, the idea behind "rare items" was much different then what it is today. There were probably only two dozen rare items, including those from very old times (e.g. [[Crown]]) and some like the [[Pharaoh Rares]]. These days, with all the new bosses and items that are only dropped by one or two of them, we have dozens of items which are rare, but at the same time are probably unknown by the vast majority of players. To add to that, we have a considerable number of fansite/contest/special items that are only given by CipSoft (or with their permission). While many of these are indeed rare (like ''some'' Fansite Items), others have been given out so many times that they are not really rare (for example the [[Silver Trophy of Excellence]], I have one and it's not listed :>).
-As for testing, you can test it locally and use Firebug or whatever you normally would, but porting it to the wiki may take a few changes. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 05:27, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
+Keeping track of these has proved to be a challenge, and these days we don't even know in which server many of these rares are or if they still exist at all. It's not hard to click an owner name in an item's article and find out the character doesn't even exist anymore (deleted or name changed). So I propose that we should be more strict and remove many of the player's name references from pages in order to keep them cleaner and remove content that is outdated and hard/impossible to maintain.
-== New mounts ==
+'''1'''. An item can have its owners* listed only if the item was ''somewhat'' publicly given by CipSoft or by Supported/Promoted fansite.
-http://static.tibia.com/flash-regular-data/sprites-86aa386bddace34570648780b92e9c11cdd8e5b7e00a30cd87b2555a4b149581.png
+Items (or groups) of items that fall into this category are:
-Someone want to add these? The recolored scorpion, dragonling and undead cavebear. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 01:07, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-They updated the sprites with no new client version? Interesting..
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:43, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
-----
+* Fansite Items (not all [[Contest Prizes]])
-== Update 10.10 Creature loot changes ==
+* Special gifts given by CipSoft for various reasons ([[Dragon Scale Legs]], [[Laurel Wreath]], [[Miniature House]], [[Council Certificate]])
+The reason I used ''somewhat'' is that I can think of some exceptions to this publicity rule. For example, [[Gamemaster Doll]]s were not announced, but were given to a very specific group of players (we don't have that list though). The same thing can be said about [[Council Certificate]]s. The [[Laurel Wreath]]s were not announced on Tibia.com, but they were announced during a meeting with many different tutors that witnessed it.
-According to Tjured post loot of [[Demon Skeleton]], [[Lich]] and [[Vampire]] was adjusted. Because of that loot parser need to be adjusted as well, so loot of those creatures goes to correct tables - past update 10.10 ones. [[User:Zantax|Zantax]] ([[User talk:Zantax|talk]]) 17:18, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
+Some items, despite the fact that they were given by CipSoft or a Fansite, are either relatively common or their receivers were not announced, meaning tracking them is impossible. I think we should remove lists from these items and, when possible, link to the news where the winners were announced (for example [[CM Token]]s). For example:
-== Wikia changes ==
+* [[Contest Prizes]] given by CipSoft, such as [[Arcane Insignia]] and [[CM Token]].
-I guess we finally get wider content space, (see [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog%3ABertH%2FDarwin_-_The_Next_Evolution_of_Wikia here]). Also nice CSS editor, I like it, what do you think?
+* [[Contest Prizes]] given by Fansites: [[Silver Trophy of Excellence]] and [[Bronze Trophy of Excellence]].
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:13, August 23, 2013 (UTC)
+* [[The Famous Golden Bug]]s, there are too many of them to count or track, and current list is completely outdated.
-----
+Note: even though we say ''owners'', it would be preferred if we only mentioned players who ''received'' the items, since all of them are passive of being traded. Also, we can never say for sure if other players have received one copy of the item. Thus, it would be more accurate to mention those are ''known receivers''. For example: ''Players known to have received a Heavily Bound Book are...''. The [[Heavily Bound Book]] article actually have some good examples of how we can add the information while not being at risk of being outdated due to trades.
-Loot statistic problem..
+'''2'''. Items that are just rare loots should not have their owners listed, since they are more likely to be traded, obtained again or even completely lose the rarity status. For example:
-Recently one of my loot statistic updates got edited since it had a silver raid token in it, I understand this and think it's the raid way to do it, but the next time I uploaded loot statistics I new I had a token in it, so i tried to remove it in the processed parser, however it did not let me change it there, maybe make it possible to edit your loot there or block the tokens completely from the loot stats (as some other items like party hats etc).
+* [[Pharaoh Rares]]
-Yours Violent Moonlight.
+* [[Amazon Set]]
+* [[Dragon Scale Boots]]
+* [[Treader of Torment]] and so on.
+'''3'''. Important historical information about some items can and should be kept, of course. Most Tibians are interested and like to have a source on the story behind the [[Magic Longsword]], for instance. A drawn must be line, however, in order for us to define what is history and what isn't. The very [[Magic Longsword]] page has conflicting information regarding its current owner. I would personally suggest the removal of the Current Location section and the Moises~ paragraph, but that is up for debate of course. Other items in a similar situation:
-[[User:Bitter Soul|Bitter Soul]] ([[User talk:Bitter Soul|talk]]) 00:58, September 28, 2013 (UTC)
+* [[Crown]]
-== New feature for house pages - permalinks ==
+* [[Blessed Shield]]
+* [[Rose Shield]]
+* [[Horned Helmet]]
+* The majority of these old-Antica rares.
+These changes would require some manual searches, and maybe we could add a short summary of the final rules to [[TibiaWiki:Policy]]. Then we would have to keep an eye out for new edits of this kind. Please let me know what you think of these new rules suggestion and of course feel free to suggest some changes as I may have overlooked something important.
-Today I have implemented a new feature for the house pages: permanent links to each of the houses on tibia.com.
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 18:49, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
-Because the permanent link depends on game server, it was impractical before because there are 70+ links to any given house. With [[TibiaWiki:Settings]] you can choose which server the links should use. [[TibiaWiki:Settings]] was created to house general settings so that we can reuse them for other scripts.
-This can make it easier to verify house data, and makes it easier to share houses with other players.
-If you have suggestions/feedback I would love to hear it. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:31, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
 ----
+These seem some well-thought rules Molx, I can only agree with them.
-Very very cool! Now we can link to tibia.com house pages from house pages (I think that was your intention, right?).
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:46, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 20:06, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
+I agree with you, Molx. What should we do with rare item lists on game world articles?
-Yes, you can see it on pages like [[Mammoth Belly]] (some house pages may not be updated yet). But it does require JavaScript, impossible to work around that. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 10:01, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-Good job, Six!
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 19:30, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 20:36, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
+Yea i agree with you as well. this is a good change to be made. some of those pages have lists that are outdated, way too long and irrelevant,it just clutters the information (like [[Yellow Rose]] for example).<br>
-Although I would remove the ID from the title. This is info which is usually not present in a gui, simply because users don't need to see it or use it.
+maybe that information should also be in a separate place, similar to a '''quest spoiler''' or a different page altogether like '''/Transcripts''' page, what do you think?<br>
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 19:41, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
+as to rares on game world articles, and in general i think we should make the distinction between '''looted''' or '''won in a contest''' to '''owns''' (on a game world, first person who looted is a part of the server's history) and remove '''owners''' of items that aren't impossibly rare (like [[Crown]],[[The Horned Fox]] etc)<br>
+[[User:Vapaus|Vapaus]] ([[User talk:Vapaus|talk]]) 11:48, February 10, 2018 (UTC)
 ----
+> maybe that information should also be in a separate place, similar to a quest spoiler or a different page altogether like /Transcripts page, what do you think?
+For the items that keep their "lists" it may be a good idea, but I'm not sure to be honest. In many cases the list would be too small and a dedicated page would look odd. If the list is so big that it is cluttering the main page, then perhaps it shouldn't be there at all. One exception is the [[Heavily Bound Book]] since its records are detailed for obvious reasons.
-== Fluid Layout ==
+I haven't thought about World pages when I first wrote this, but I guess the same problems apply: we can't keep track. If we were only to mention prize items, it wouldn't make any sense, receiving a contest prize is the player's merit, not the game world's (unlike being the first one to defeat a hard boss, for example). And let's be fair: currently, many world pages are very very outdated, which is the result of so many worlds, world changes, character transfers and our own, of course. If we barely manage to update the first characters to reach this or that level, I don't think we would succeed in maintaining rare items, and if we decide to keep the records of any items, it would mean a second page (or group of pages) to update when necessary. The only world with any relevance in terms of rare items is Antica due to the fact that most of them originated from this world when CipSoft wasn't so professional and introduced rare items somewhat often. And even so, despite the concentration of rare items being larger there, the world lost its unique status long ago with character world transfers.
-I looked at some pages but saw no problems with the fluid layout, released today. See also: [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:BertH/Fluid_layout_is_arriving_on_December_4 here].
+TL;DR: I suggest removing all item owners from game world pages. We keep the relevant information only on item's pages.
-Any problems, template updates needed? Post them here please.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:16, December 4, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-[[Mapper]] has a gray line to the right of the map that's not there when using monobook. — [[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]] 14:31, December 6, 2013 (UTC)
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 17:32, February 16, 2018 (UTC)
-== Main page spiff ==
+== Standardizing Appearences ==
-I invite you to check out some changes to our Main Page that Raylan13 from Wikia is suggesting [{{fullurl:c:raylantest|useskin=wikia}} here]. Further info [[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes#Main page spiff|here]].
+There are 4 types of [[Appearances.dat|Appearances]] in Tibia:
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 21:41, December 18, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-I don't care much either way about the general styles; i am used to this one but i can adapt. My main concern is what i hear from players about slow loading pages. I know some of our templates cause this, which is a separate issue, and i imagine that throwing more images or dynamic content on main page would not help. We are still a top Tibia fansite and i don't think more images will draw in more visitors/contributors. I suspect mostly search engines, game chat/forum discussion brings people here but Wikia probably has some statistics on the matter.<br />--[[User:DM|DM]] ><((°> [[Special:Contributions/DM|Contribs]] <°))>< [[User_talk:DM|talk to me]] 04:25, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-I believe the main page should be the place people go to for a) an introduction to the wiki, b) selected news from the admins and c) quick navigation. Images and videos should be relevant. I like the "Winter update" video and the image of Gaz'haragoth, those are relevant. The others? Not so much. Also I'm having a very very hard time accepting that this was clearly designed with World of Warcraft in mind. Does the search bar look familiar to anyone? Compare [https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbiEE0hQT5bomDh-h4FS_nWP9R2zAKcvUQyHsksCEH3jbkw5p0 this] against [http://images.wikia.com/raylantest/images/4/45/SearchBox.png this].
--- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:00, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-I like the color scheme and logo, although the later needs to have some white edges removed. I would rather have a blank search box, but I'm not sure if it would look good with the transparent background. The main outlines would probably look better if they were, instead of pink, gray/brown like the category box outline. The current background is already used on tibia.com and several other fansites (we could use [[Tibia Background Artworks#Website Backgrounds|another image]], the 8.7 ones is available in a big version). — [[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]] 13:57, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
-----
-I agree with you in many topics:
-*We can adapt to a new Main Page;
-*We should focus on introduction, relevant news and quick navigation. About quick navigation, we could even make some changes to the long and unattractive list of "Popular Articles";
-*Images and videos are relevant. I believe the main page even becomes more professional with nice images and videos;
-*Main outlines color should be changed.
+* Objects: [[Items]], [[Objects]] and [[Corpses]]
-Concerning the search bar image:
+* Outfits: Character's [[Outfits]] as well as all creatures' outfits
+* Effects: [[Effects]]
+* Missiles: Also [[Effects]]
+I think TibiaWiki's pages should reflect how the appearences are organized by CipSoft, but currently they are not, as seen above. I dream of the day when we will not have both [[Template:Infobox Item]] and [[Template:Infobox Object]] anymore, but that will obviously be a huge task and require a lot of bot-jobs I can't handle. I can, however, manually change the Missiles to [[Template:Infobox Missile]].
-<blockquote>''"Also the search box image is just something I use on my wiki, so wouldn't be carried over"'' - Raylan13</blockquote>
+I was thinking about first copying the template, and then adding the ''missileid'' parameter (or just ''id''). We can add one to Effects as well. This should also help us add all the Effects/Missiles we are missing (there are 191 + 59 of them, we only have 112). Any objections or suggestions?
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 15:36, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 01:31, May 22, 2018 (UTC)
-:Good colour scheme I think, not sure if I just prefer it because its a change. We'd do well to make a featured content grid rather than a linear layout as at the moment. The gallery is a bit big and useless. Converting some popular articles into "content portals" would help user friendliness. Those are my thoughts 16:37, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
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+No objections. Go ahead! :)
-:Just a quick digression: I was about to suggest that we either scrap the "featured" content completely, or just merge them all together into one single featured article per week. That way we can have something that's actually interesting each week instead of something completely random and non-noteworthy.<br />[[User:Art Featherpitch|Art Featherpitch]] ([[User Talk:Art Featherpitch|talk]]) 18:07, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
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-:Yeah, we could just have featured images and videos and update them every now and then. I had a look on YouTube and I found a few English channels with good Tibia videos. We could use them to show hunting places, quest spoilers, maybe boss fight strategies, and featured a couple of them on the main page. For the small slideshow gallery, we could use official content as update teaser screenshots, creature cards, artworks, etc.; we already have enough of them for this. Now, for the big slideshow gallery, we'd need specific images which represent each page they link to; maybe they could be mixes of screenshots/sprites. This would then replace some of the "Popular Articles" links. Just my opinion. What do you think about all of this?
-:[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 20:05, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
+[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 11:17, May 22, 2018 (UTC)
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-Looking through the source I just realized that the image slider is not intended as a gallery but a navigation tool (the images link to [[Creatures]], [[Items]], [[Quests]], [[Achievements]]). That is completely unintuitive. In a navigational tool I would expect a link fast; I certainly would not expect to have to decipher an image's meaning as I have to on that test page. I suggest we change it to an actual gallery with relevant images. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:33, December 21, 2013 (UTC)
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-I changed the page, for the old version see [http://raylantest.wikia.com/wiki/RaylanTest_Wiki?oldid=4579 this permanent link]. I changed the images being displayed in the slider. I don't think we should be using the slider for navigation, it is unintuitive. The images didn't even fit together. The new version has 4 images relevant to the update (the sliders don't seem to support more than 4 images). Is this any better? -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 08:25, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
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-Hey all! Happy New Year ;) I wanted to pop in here and see what's going on - I see there have been some improvements to my initial draft and wondered if you might be ready for an import? We can always make additional tweaks here as needed. [[User:Raylan13|<b>Raylan13</b>]]<helper /> ([[User talk:Raylan13|<font size="1">talk</font>]]) 18:04, January 2, 2014 (UTC)
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+When I added the tibia missiles as tibiawiki effects I did this because I thought there is no real difference. Of course it is totally fine to split them off now. Alternatively you could let them keep using the same template but add a distinguishing parameter called "type" or something similar.
-Can you wait a few days? Currently Sixorish is developing a [[Template:Content Navigation|content portal]] to be used in the new Main Page. Then we will change the Popular Articles list. Also, we are not sure what we will do with featured NPC/Creature/Item - we may remove them all or replace them with a "feature article" section. And I want to look for other interesting images and videos.
+Adding ids is a really good idea, please go ahead, we should add this to all pages which already have an id in tibia. I would go for "missileid" and not just "id", since this is similar to Infobox Item where we have "itemid".
-[[User:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Talk</font>]] · [[Special:Editcount/Hunter of Dragoes|<font color="Blue">Contribs</font>]] · [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|<font color="Blue">Admins</font>]])</small> - 23:35, January 2, 2014 (UTC)
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-Yep, no problem :) The only reason I ask is because I've got a couple other wikis on the back burner. Give me a nudge when you're ready! [[User:Raylan13|<b>Raylan13</b>]]<helper /> ([[User talk:Raylan13|<font size="1">talk</font>]]) 02:13, January 3, 2014 (UTC)
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-I propose that we accept it how it is and make changes later. It will be easier to test changes if it is applied now. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 02:34, January 3, 2014 (UTC)
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-What exactly are the changes we are applying, just to prevent confusion, as far as I can tell:
-*Color of all section headers red, instead of our green, blue and red pastel tinted colors
-**This same red color applied to our wiki's buttons
-**Almost invisible pink borders of sections
-**url links with a neon-green color hover effect
-*Moving "about tibiawiki" section and adding 3 videos (are they static or dynamic?)
-*Moving the poll section to the right column
-*a new slideshow with 8 images, mostly artworks, in the top-right corner
-*a navigation in the top middle section either with a slideshow of pictures OR Sixorish' [[Template:Content Navigation]]
+If you need a bot to run any bulk edits, just let me know.
-Or is some of this listing bound to Raylan's test wiki?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 12:51, January 3, 2014 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 17:48, May 22, 2018 (UTC)
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-None of it should be bound on my site, with the exception of maybe some image file names, though I think I tried to keep those consistent iirc. Let me carry things over by the end of day today, if there's no objections. [[User:Raylan13|<b>Raylan13</b>]]<helper /> ([[User talk:Raylan13|<font size="1">talk</font>]]) 17:24, January 3, 2014 (UTC)
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-It looks like I managed to port over all the changes, including those for the featured sections. In all honesty, if the slider is unwanted, I'd suggest a content portal with icon links. I can help if you like (I've got some Tibia icons), or help with any other changes. Let me know! [[User:Raylan13|<b>Raylan13</b>]]<helper /> ([[User talk:Raylan13|<font size="1">talk</font>]]) 00:40, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
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-Looks good so far. One suggestion is changing the background color in [[Template:Infobox]] from white, which seems awkward now, to something else, perhaps a blue like #AAAAAA. --[[User:DM|DM]] ><((°> [[Special:Contributions/DM|Contribs]] <°))>< [[User_talk:DM|talk to me]] 01:08, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
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-You uploaded a new [[:File:Wiki-wordmark.png]] over our old one...was this intended? I can't see our old image anywhere on the layout, and it's our icon on [http://www.tibia.com/community/?subtopic=fansites the fansite listing] so I think we shouldn't replace it so easily. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:07, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
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-I have applied the background for Monobook users, although it relies on JavaScript because the Monobook skin has no element to get the semi-transparent background effect. I quite like this aspect of the new page. Also I added the CSS to the Monobook skin. They should look consistent now. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 10:08, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
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-First of all, thank you Raylan! It looks very cool. I agree that maybe [[:File:Wiki-wordmark.png]] should be reverted. Also the background of [[Template:Infobox]] should be changed color, I tried #d6b59c at [[Template:Config]] (this causes a huge job queue or not?).
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 11:09, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
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-Are we permitted to change the color of #WikiaBackground or the other interface elements to the right? TibiaWiki has never used a "dark" theme and the background of #WikiaBackground will force us to change all templates etc. to accommodate. See [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Pair_of_Soft_Boots?useskin=wikia Pair of Soft Boots] for example, the red and blue borders do not go well with the new color. I propose that the semi-transparent #WikiaBackground be plain white instead (#ffffff), the spoiler and the red/blue borders will go together much better. See [http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Pair_of_Soft_Boots?useskin=monobook the monobook version which uses #ffffff instead] (ignore the current background of the infobox, that was changed to accommodate for the change). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:02, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
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-I made a lot of color changes to templates, I think most looks good now (if updated by the job queue). I don't really understand your question Sixorish. Do you want to change the background color of the elements in the wiki rail to the right?
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:13, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
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-The semi-transparent background of the content was the main reason we needed to change our templates: it was way too dark. I found [[Special:ThemeDesigner]] which allows us to freely change it. With the dark background I feel the text is not contrastive enough, and it gives a wrong feel to the wiki. I saved a change to the theme and now it's plain white with an opacity of 77%. I think with this background we can do a lot more, because there aren't many colors that go well with the darker background. For example I think <code>background-color: #F4F0EC; border: 1px solid #AA8D79;</code> (on our templates) would look much better than they did before. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 14:30, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
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-Ok, I see what you mean now, you are talking about "dark" in a way I assumed like.. black or something. But you mean the sand-like color, aren't you? I agree your change to white makes it more contrastive, although a little "colder".
-But the background colors that I changed can be reverted now, I mean, they can be white again, or..
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 14:53, January 4, 2014 (UTC)
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-Re:Wordmark - I didn't see anything in the comments section prior to moving over the wordmark or before I started the work, so that was intentional; I would have built the theme around the wordmark otherwise, as now it probably sticks out like a sore thumb. I honestly don't believe there's going to be any issue with having a new one in place, but that's obviously your call as a community to make ;) [[User:Raylan13|<b>Raylan13</b>]]<helper /> ([[User talk:Raylan13|<font size="1">talk</font>]]) 19:01, January 6, 2014 (UTC)
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-Nah, I don't mind having this new wordmark.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 09:58, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
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-There are issues with keeping the new one.
-* The artists' efforts in the logo contest will have been for nothing. The community's opinion has been disregarded.
-* For consistency we will need a corresponding tibia.com logo. This image is of the dimensions 224x56px, we need one 150x100px.
+==Loot Statistics==
-For future references, if you design your theme around a logo, perhaps you should confirm whether the logo has any importance before you start... -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 13:44, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
+Hmm, I was just thinking... wouldn't it make more sense for the loot statistics pages to be creature sub-pages? So Rat/Loot Statistics rather than [[Loot Statistics:Rat]]? -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 10:58, April 5, 2019 (UTC)
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-I really have zero interest in getting into a competition with you. The simple fact is that I created a draft on my test wiki for ''your community's approval''. If there was an issue, there was more than enough time to point it out so changes could be made - so, ''for future reference'', if you'd like to add some input about proposed changes, perhaps you should do so while the draft is being worked on.
-I've left the door open for changes in my comments above, so there's no "disregard" of the community's opinion; on the flip side, however, you appear to want your opinion and only your opinion to dictate what's going to be changed or kept. If the ''community'' has the opinion that changes need to be made, I'll be happy to make them - just like I already said I would (unless you happen to not know what the phrase "it's your call" means). [[User:Raylan13|<b>Raylan13</b>]]<helper /> ([[User talk:Raylan13|<font size="1">talk</font>]]) 17:20, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
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-Yep we had plenty of time, I even encouraged it to move faster. Apparently the ''community'' (aka 4? active administrators) overlooked the fact that you replaced our visual identity. Personally I don't even value the logo that highly, but it doesn't feel right overwriting the only element of the layout that has had a formal voting process. The community decided years ago when we moved to Wikia that this is the logo we will use, we should be accommodating for this logo. But when we expressed our opinion that it should not be changed you didn't try to accommodate, you implied it would look terrible on the new theme and stated there ''should be no issues in adopting a new one''. That's not okay. There are issues, and the main one is that the community has already formally agreed to use the old logo. -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 18:33, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
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-(I'll try to nuance a little) Sixorish, I think you are giving too much value to this community decision of 4 years ago. Fact is, we had to choose a logo for use on tibia.com when we became supported, back then we didn't even use it for tibiawiki (I think the Monaco skin only supported a square logo?). With Oasis it became convenient to have a rectangular logo and it was a logical step to use our tibia.com tibiawiki logo also on tibiawiki. This decision is not carved in stone.
+I think that having those in a specific namespace has its advantages. For example, we can see in a User's [[Special:Editcount|edit count]] how much of his/hers contribution was loot statistics, which is an easy way to get your total count of edits up. We have users with thousands of edits but only a few that weren't statistics. For example, 32% of my Edit Count is actually from statistics, 4,769 out of 14,769.
-Raylan, what you should know is that this wiki doesn't have an active community in the same way other wikis might have. This has a few reasons, one of them being that the wiki content is for a large part finished. The work we still do is mostly optimizing/refining/improving here and there. So only when the game Tibia has an update a few times a year, new content is added in a matter of ~2 weeks. So it's not a real problem layout changes don't invoke big community discussions.
-Having said this I think we can consider the following things:
+It also makes advanced searching easier since we can exclude the statistics.
-*keep the new logo; it looks good with the new layout, nobody forces/expects us to use the old one.
-*keep the new layout with the old logo; the colors of the logo might look a little out of place though.
-*hold a design contest for a new logo which looks good with the new layout, also put it on tibia.com; give some heavily bound books as reward and stuff, could be nice.
-*keep the old logo, change the color scheme a little to match more with the old logo.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 23:06, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
+[[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 13:19, April 5, 2019 (UTC)
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+When we first introduced the system of Loot Statistics, we had reasons to make a separate namespace, one of them being the ability to filter away loot statistics edits from the recent changes page, which is only possible with a separate namespace. Interesting to note, is this wasn't the case from the start (see some red links [[User_talk:Daniel_Letalis/Archive_1#Witch.2FLoot_Statistics|here]]. You could argue that these reasons are not very relevant anymore, but I think it would be hard to argue that the current situation requires for a massive overhaul (moving all loot pages).
-Monobook looks bad with the transparent background. Main reason would be the sidebar and top buttons are still white and don't get any transparency. Can't we get the white monobook article background back? — [[User:Arkshi|Arkshi]] 21:28, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
+-- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 08:51, April 6, 2019 (UTC)
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-If everyone else is in agreement, sure thing - it's easy enough to reduce the transparency, even all the way back to the completely solid white background. I figure any further changes are in your guys' hands now, but if you need help, don't hesitate to ask ;) [[User:Raylan13|<b>Raylan13</b>]]<helper /> ([[User talk:Raylan13|<font size="1">talk</font>]]) 00:01, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
+Very interesting information, and good reasoning. I guess it's just one of those changes that would be very satisfying but simply less practical than the alternative. -- [[User:Wouterboy|Wouterboy]] ([[User talk:Wouterboy|talk]]) 11:16, April 6, 2019 (UTC)
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-The monobook change was independent of Raylan's changes. I did it because I liked the effect the Wikia skin had going on. If the majority of monobook users don't like the new one it can be changed back (or we can improve upon it). -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 03:13, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
-== Forum ==
-I noticed a link appearing under an article. I was just wondering who enabled the forum in [[Special:WikiFeatures]]? I don't think it should be used by us, we have talkpages and stuff.
--- [[User:Bennie|Bennie]] ([[User_talk:Bennie|talk]] ~ [[TibiaWiki:Administrators|fellows]]) 10:26, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
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-== Improved Hunting Places page ==
-Alright... so I have no idea what I'm doing on wiki. But I have some ideas that I would love to see come to life, and I'd be willing to help work on them if someone could teach or show me how to do it.
-I'm not sure how active you guys are on the tibia forums, but a long time ago a guy by the name of Vonome collected a ton of data on hunting spots and their experience/loot, as told by the players. I noticed this wiki has a "Hunting Places" page, but to be honest, it sucks. It's really messy and hard to read and it encompasses all of the vocations on one page.
-What I would like to do is create four pages, one for each vocation, that lists various hunting spots in a table (similar to the Quests page). They could link to other pages for those vocations, like the Knight page, Sorcerer page, etc. You could sort the tables ascending or descending like any other table, and they would have categories such as name, recommended level, premium, location, notes, experience, and loot; experience and loot similar to what is already on the hunting places page now, a star system. Get the idea?
-I'd love to see this come to life so we could just paste a link to the wiki page every time a thread is made "where to hunt x vocation level y", which really clutters up the gameplay board. I'm not sure how you could reach me here, but I'm always browsing the gameplay board and I play the character Psykik on the world Dolera.
+==Loot from Cow==
-[[User:Psykik|Psykik]] ([[User talk:Psykik|talk]]) 23:30, February 2, 2014 (UTC)
+I edited items looted from Cow that are sellable to Yasir. Now somebody has to add them to Yasir list, I can't do this . Maybe there are other items from the event [https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Orcsoberfest_Island Orcsoberfest] that needs to be added.
+[[User:Zvezdiica|Zvezdiica]] ([[User talk:Zvezdiica|talk]]) 23:26, January 18, 2020 (UTC)
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-I agree with you that hunting places need a lot of work. However, because of how our templates work, the only feasible way to do this would be to have a single page with a table of locations, strategies used, and experience rates. It is not practical to have a "list" generated from our hunting place articles.
+I did that, thanks for your contribution. Indeed there are some items and other info still missing from this event, part of it we'll only be able to gather next time the event happens. -- [[User:Molx|Molx]] ([[User talk:Molx|talk]]) 05:15, January 19, 2020 (UTC)
-But with that said, here are some things we'd have to make clear note of:
-* Strategy; are you using SD or waves or what?
-* Amount of people (e.g. solo, with blocker, team)
-* Location
-* Experience rates
-* Level; the same hunting place can be hunted at many different levels, e.g. a level 13+ can powergame at grims with a blocker even though our articles do not make note of that. Level is the reason our current system fails: a level 13 will spend more than a level 200 at the same area, gain more exp/h and such but our pages assume that every hunting ground is equal no matter what level you are.
-* Waste; are you wasting by hunting here?
- -- [[User:Sixorish|Sixorish]] ([[User talk:Sixorish|talk]]) 09:00, February 3, 2014 (UTC)