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Revamp - Template:Infobox Item

Hi guys,

Here's my first installment of a huge restructuring of our templates:

• User:Sixorish/Item2
• User:Sixorish/Item2/Axe (compare: Axe)
• User:Sixorish/Item2/Pair of Soft Boots (compare: Pair of Soft Boots)

These templates are subject to change. I'm open to any suggestions.

-- Sixorish (talk) 07:37, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

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I definately like the better way of using horizontal space, but I must admit it takes some time to find each piece of info (obviously because they are placed in a different spot and I'm not used to this). Do I have to reload css, because I see almost no layout atm? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:48, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

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I can't imagine why the CSS wouldn't load for you. Here's what you should see:

The key features are:

• Short key/value pairs are displayed in a table to the right. This allows more space for the other content, like notes, to flow around it.
• Trade tables are displayed alongside each other. I think this is very important because currently you have to check the label, whereas people will eventually get a feel for buyfrom/sellto based on its position (left or right).
• It uses more logical structure/elements. I think this is important because search engines will treat our content differently depending on the elements we use in our pages.

With all that said, I'm not an experienced web designer. I think the structure of the page is better but I don't have a good feel for what looks good and is intuitive to use. I got feedback from my friends and adjusted it until they were tired of telling me they didn't like it. I don't know if they genuinely hated it or if they were too adapted to the current layout which we've had for years. What I do know is: the current layout is inadequate, outdated, and doesn't address our needs since we've moved to Wikia (and began using their skin). -- Sixorish (talk) 14:12, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

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I agree with your friends that it could use improvement, but this already is definitely way better than what we use now. -- Wouterboy (talk) 14:26, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

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I agree that it is better use of space and it will take time to get used to. If you plan to try a few different layouts then we should do a poll to see which is most useful/appealing.
Besides structure my biggest concern would be that we still have a lot of information available. Your Soft Boots example currently does not have the classes/types, transferable, implemented version date, the tables for Boots and all Items, and maybe a few others. I know these can be added in anytime but i was curious if you left them out intentionally or not. I prefer to maintain all info but they do not need to be in the same structure, necessarily.
Side note that this reminded me of: At some point i want to add a basic template or update the current one for the Update/X.XX pages and redo the main Update page with a table using said template.
--DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 21:52, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

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Thanks I added transferable and classification rows in the table. I decided not to include itemclass because primarytype implies (or is meant to imply) itemclass. The template could still use it 'behind the scenes' of course. However, maybe something to think about later is a change to the classifications, because they don't always have a shared concept ("Plants, Animal Products, Food and Drink" is a valid itemclass, when its name is just a list of all constituents...)

Another thing: this change will involve templating the droppedby parameter. I think this is the best way to go because it would enforce a standard to be used within the templates. This is the best option for creating a list instead of formatted links, other methods would involve complex string functions which gets hairy and is harder to use/maintain.

Also this new layout should be easier to adapt to changes, like mobile devices and skin adjustments. I thought Wikia was enabling a fluid layout on all wikis but that doesn't seem to have happened. If it does, we'll at least be more able to adapt to it.

-- Sixorish (talk) 08:12, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

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I have the feeling you're in the right way, Six. Nice job so far! I'll try to catch you online.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 09:03, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

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With Dragoes' help I have changed some of the styles. Please check the pages again and tell me what you think. The blue background seems to have made a huge difference. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:16, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

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Looks A LOT better now, I'm starting to like it. Some questions:

• What do you mean with "status: active"? That it is obtainable in game and not unobtainable or deprecated or from an event?
• bought for has two dashes, shouldn't that be converted to something else (I think we have something else in the current template), some text I mean.
• The text in the dropped by box is considerably larger than the other text, I don't like that (it gives emphasis, which is not needed or wanted)
• also about the dropped by, what about the loot statistics data? Will the percent values be visible later on? (I imagine this javascript is set to an id/class you don't use currently).
• I would like a background color behind the properties table to the right. Borders and/or background colors give structure to a page. It should be easy to distinguish the different blocks of information.
• Maybe also a little background color (rounded) to the headers. Or a border bottom.

-- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 13:39, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

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• Yes, status will mean just that - if it's obtainable, if it's deprecated, or if it's a TS feature (like Test Server Assistant).
• I'll remove that.
• Yes the JS will need to be adjusted to account for the new structure. I'll look into that when the template is finalized/agreed on.
• I've tried a few different colors but I can't find one that fits. I think the bold property names distinguish the table from the rest of the content.
• I'll add a gold border to the bottom of each section header. However, I don't think any color really complements gold well to use as a background color.

-- Sixorish (talk) 14:49, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

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Some ideas we had:

• Add the following parameters:
  • pickupable (binary parameter; so we can merge Template:Infobox Item and Template:Infobox Object);
  • walkable (binary parameter);
  • market (binary parameter);
  • axeMod, clubMod, distMod, mlMod, swordMod, shieldMod, speedMod (skill modifiers);
  • immobile (binary parameter; if yes, diplay Moveable: no);
  • walkingSpeed (% of base speed);
  • height, width (1=32px);
  • blocksMissile (binary parameter);
  • blocksPath (binary parameter);
  • fluidContainer (binary parameter);
  • hangable (binary parameter);
  • rotatable (binary or 2/4?);
  • floorChange (binary parameter);
  • ingameHeight (height value);
  • spriteID (to detect items sharing the same sprite and display strings about it);
  • effectID (if an item displays an effect when used ingame, the same effect should be displayed on the item page).
• Only display npcprice, npcvalue, stackable, transferable, value and weight if pickupable = yes;
• Only display destructable, floorChange, fluidContainer, hangable, ingameHeight, rotatable, walkingSpeed, writable and skill modifiers if corresponding values exist;
• Only display blocksMissile, blocksPath, immobile and walkable values if pickupable = no;
• Review all existing strings on attributes field and create new parameters;
• Currently, attributes is displayed in parentheses after item name, this should be reviewed.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 15:24, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

We can automatically add many of these parameters on pages that have an ID. Therefore, we should add ID parameter to the remaining items and to objects (this one might be tricky).

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 02:32, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

--- Check out table headers which are links, like on Boat. The blue links are barely readable in contrast with the blue headers. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 03:29, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

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Thanks. I changed the link text on the table headers. -- Sixorish (talk) 07:51, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

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Loot% on items and creatures should be working, but it depends on JS wgTitle (e.g. Axe vs. Sixorish/Item2/Axe) so it will not work on those pages until they go live.

Here's what will change:

• Template:Infobox Item
  • Gains parameters:
    1. article
    2. plural
    3. actualname
    4. pickupable
  • Parameter changes:
    1. droppedby must now use {{Dropped By}}
    2. sounds must now use {{Sound List}}
• Template:Infobox Creature
  • Gains parameters:
    1. article
    2. plural
    3. actualname
    4. spawntype
  • Parameter changes:
    1. loot must now use {{Loot Table}} which should use {{Loot Item}}
    2. sounds must now use {{Sound List}}
• Template:Infobox Spell
  • Gains parameters:
    1. element
  • Parameter changes:
• Template:Infobox NPC
  • Gains parameters:
    1. posx
    2. posy
    3. posz
    4. street
    5. gender
    6. race
  • Parameter changes:
    1. sounds must now use {{Sound List}}

The pages that will be changed are:

• Template:Infobox Item → User:Sixorish/Item2 (Axe, Panda Teddy, Pair of Soft Boots, Magic Sulphur)
• Template:Infobox Creature → User:Sixorish/Creature2 (Rat, Demon, Hellgorak)
• Template:Infobox NPC → User:Sixorish/NPC2 (Sam)
• Template:Infobox Spell → User:Sixorish/Spell2 (Find Person)

Other templates will be untouched for now. I'd like it if the item template could support objects so I have avoided them for the time being.

Are there any objections to this? If there are no objections I will work on a script to make all necessary changes before the templates can be used. The templates still need some edits to accommodate for transclusion but otherwise they are done.

-- Sixorish (talk) 13:15, January 16, 2015 (UTC)

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I agree with the technical changes and I think the overall layout of the new templates looks good. Some minor tweaks in colors/layout are still possible, but that can be done in a later stage as well. Some remaining questions:

• The sidebar disappeared, as well as the creatureclass or itemclass templates. Is that intended?
• I'm a bit scared people will be mad about the change, is there anything we can do about that? Warn people a change is coming and ask for feedback? Do a poll, give the community a feeling they have a say? I don't know.

-- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 16:53, January 16, 2015 (UTC)

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Yes there probably will be a bit of negativity, just because it's a change and nobody likes change. With that said I don't think a poll will be representative of the layout's value, because everyone will vote that they don't like it without considering the possible advantages of the change. Besides, we'd have to alter the main page for a poll because any other page will get very little attention.

But of course we should ask for the users' feedback. I'll work on TibiaWiki:Projects/2015 Layout Revamp so that we can link to it in the news and ask them to post feedback on the talk page. Other than that I don't see what we can do to get good feedback on the layout. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:56, January 17, 2015 (UTC)

Oh and the sidebar is removed because that was taking up a lot of space where we didn't want that. If we decide that pages need it, we can create a list on the bottom similar to the 'dropped by' list (3-4 columns). Personally, I almost never care for "related monsters" but maybe less experienced people might, I don't know. -- Sixorish (talk) 09:29, January 17, 2015 (UTC)

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I've added {{Navigation}} to the bottom of the Creature2 template and adjusted the styles a bit. Let me know if it's acceptable or any improvements that can be made. Example: User:Sixorish/Creature2/Hellgorak. -- Sixorish (talk) 17:37, January 19, 2015 (UTC)

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I will start converting creatures to the new system tomorrow if there are no objections. I'd like to get this done before February because I'll have a lot less time to work on big projects. -- Sixorish (talk) 02:58, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

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Yes, go ahead. Apparently there is no feedback. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:50, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

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