Talk:Administrator Team

Welcome
Feel free to discuss things among admins. Ask things to admins, propose new ideas etc. Reporting a vandal can also be perfectly done here, but is not really the intention of this page. Also note that this page doesn't have the same function as TibiaWiki talk:Community Portal.

Merging vote
Please state your opinion here. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 07:09, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Problem with a template
hey, there is a problem with {{#dpl: | mode=userformat template thing, it's been like that for about two days. is there anything you can do or is it a problem of wikia? ~ Vapaus (talk)

I saw the problem since yesterday, it is related to wikia updating mediawiki software, I asked here, they will fix it but I think it may take some time. --Daniel Letalis (talk) 17:27, June 26, 2012 (UTC)

thanks for the fast reply, it's just making alot of pages obslete (quests, bosses, creatures etc) so i thought id ask about it ~ Vapaus (talk)

Another problem.
I just moved some images to the correct names and noticed that half the options at the top were not there. I had to edit the file pages before links like "rename", "delete" and "history" appeared. The rename page also seems to be changing the odd time to a different renaming page. Is this also something to do with the MediaWiki upgrade? Because it looks to me like we have already been moved so these issues shouldn't arise. Beejay 17:22, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

They are testing when version is 1.9 or so here Special:Version. But we might have issues related to mediawiki cache because of these tests and version changes. Yesterday the site had issues with main site script with 3 computers here, until I visited http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/-?action=purge to purge the script. You might try to purge the pages that have problems, if that doesn't work I would say we wait a bit, but if it is something needed maybe report it on Special:Contact. --Daniel Letalis 22:00, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

So if it says 1.9 on Special:Version then it means they are testing? I am sure it said 1.9 there yesterday, which was when I mainly had strange issues with the renaming link and parts on RecentChanges. If that's the case then the disappearing links must have something to do with it. If I get it again I'll take some screenshots but the links came back after an edit to the file pages. Was starting to think I am losing my mind! Beejay 00:03, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

Pet pig and little pig
Little Pig and Pet Pig is this a mistake? (the one the npc sells is little pig, which is the one you get for the digging task) ~ Vapaus (talk)

You can see Pet Pig in the market, it expires after 6 minutes, weighs 6 oz and its sprite doesn't move the legs, but it blinks. Since there are two different sprites for that pig, I assumed that Little Pig had the wrong sprite on the wiki and I changed it too.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) -  20:02, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Sprites might be different, they have like 6 sprite entries and one of them is separate from the others.

And the 6 minute thing I am pretty certain does NOT mean they disappear. On the TS they had this as well but there were pigs on the floor for days.

If you look in the market for Crystal Pedestal you'll find that they expire after 9 seconds. They don't disappear. I am pretty sure they work in the same way. It just means they change item IDs. Try trading the pig for a while (maybe 6 mins, but not sure exactly when you get this '6 min pig' so maybe longer) I suspect the trade will automatically close after a few mins. -- Sixorish (talk) 22:11, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

You might be right, Sixorish. That might be a temporary sprite that lasts 6 minutes after you use the pet pig's standard ID, as it is with some dolls.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) -  18:36, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Sprites Needed
Anyone can upload sprites for the Insectoid Monolith and Hive Monolith pages? Thanks &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 18:17, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

I uploaded items id 14074 and 14075, not sure if they are correct, feel free to delete them if they aren't. --Daniel Letalis (talk) 05:44, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, those sprites are important for the war vs hive quest :p &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 15:09, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

About Ball on Chains, Shovel (Standing) and some other items/or/objects
i've noticed that Shovel (Standing) was using an item template aswell as the Ball on Chains (both items share attributes and purpose ingame as decorative pieces around special areas), i think they should be using the object template along with other similar items that i didn't find on wiki after small search trough items/object categories (the furniture from Rottin Woods house or mushroom table and similar items that can be moved but not picked) possible under Movable Objects? also a note that a few furniture packages sprites are missing (after a brief look on the category) share your thoughts, ~ Vapaus (talk)

By the current definition of object, if something is movable, it's not an object (see objects). That's the reason why the items you mentioned are considered not-pickupable items.

But it was always hard to fill in some parameters of Template:Infobox Item like weight, droppedby, buyfrom and sellto for those items. There was never a guideline for them. If you can't pick it up, you can't put it in a container and you can't trade it, those fields are meaningless. We definitely should use other infobox template, and I don't foresee problems if we adapt Template:Infobox Object to be used in those articles. We could create a movable parameter. Also, we would have to create a destructible parameter (for objects) since some items which use such parameter would be considered objects. And we would have to change the definition of object on Objects page and, maybe, make the definition of item clearer on Items page. By the way, I just noticed that Ornamented Stone Table is already using infobox object.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) -  23:01, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Don't forget: Football needs and uses buyfrom/npcprice, they aren't meaningless (but they aren't normal trades either, you have to talk to buy them). -- Sixorish (talk) 23:09, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

You're right, I had forgotten Football and Heavy Ball. Even so, I don't see the lack of those parameters as a problem. We can always use the notes field.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) -  23:59, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

About : Flower Pots
i noticed that on the Flower Pot page some of the sprites names are wrong, and also after the latest update there are 2 sets of flower: the second set are the ones shown on market, should they all get diffrent pages? ~ Vapaus (talk)
 * The ones you normally water and can be dryed out if not waterd
 * fully grown ones you used Ice Flower Seeds on

I think that evert flower should have their page. They are different items (like rusty armors) and also they have different % of rarity and value. &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 15:09, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Spoiler Tags
In the discussion about quest spoilers (here) i mentioned the need of guidelines about quest spoilers because people use spoilers tags almost for everything without following any standard.

There was the example about Rashid where people put spoilers in the locations and it was like this for years. But there are a lot of examples:


 * |Mystic Turban: It have twice the same message about trading 1 with irmana, one outside spoiler box and another inside.
 * Mini World Changes: This page have a table of contents with the achievement you win for every MWC. However, in the achievements page that information its considered a spoiler.
 * And in the World Changes the table of contents doesn't include the achievements.
 * Also, in every quest page, the rewards are visible to anyone, for example The Pits of Inferno Quest. But if you check any rewards page, like Soft Boots you will find UNDER a spoiler box that is obtainable through PoI quest. This is a contradiction.
 * And in the same Soft Boots page the information about repairing soft boots its under quest spoiler box.
 * Same with World Changes rewards. It says WITHOUT any spoiler box that you can obtain a slug drug through the feverish change, but in the Slug Drug page it says the same UNDER a spoiler box.
 * Also, the pages about the gnomish vouchers (|type CA1) had quest spoilers (that i removed), but it made me ask myself, should I remove the spoilers on this page? or add spoiler boxes to all the items that can be obtained through minor tokens?

I found one page with some "guidelines": Quest Spoiling. But according to that page quest rewards must be UNDER quest spoilers (this is not followed in 1 single quest page) and even the route to mintwallin and monsters locations are spoilers so i can't rely in this page.

Without proper guidelines i wonder things like: Should i delete spoiler tags in the achievements page? or i should delete the achievements column in the mini worlds change page? The rewards in quest pages should be put under spoilers? or we should remove spoiler tags in rewards pages? etc

&raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 15:09, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

You're right, we should have guidelines for spoiler tags.

Do you want to start proposing guidelines, then we can discuss changes? If you don't, please, somebody else start it.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) -  00:34, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

I would suggest to stick to the fansite guidelines given by cipsoft: "Complete quest solutions need to be marked with a disclaimer that warns players that quests are spoiled in the following sections"'.

So only include spoiler warnings in complete quest solutions (world changes and probably achievements too) and that's all. No spoiler warnings in NPCs or items pages. In my opinion, it doesnt benefit to anyone spoiler warnings like in Life Crystal page where the info about changing one for 1 life ring it's under spoiler.

So my proposal is: Spoiler warnings only in complete quest, MW, MWC and achievements solutions. Avoid spoiler warnings in NPC and items pages unless it contains solutions to quests, MW, MWC and achievs. &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 04:47, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

The community already voted that they wanted spoiler warnings, I'm not sure they would appreciate us removing them. I think it should be changed, but not so drastically. -- Sixorish (talk) 03:45, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Different things, that was about quest spoilers and i'm talking about all the other pages. Anyway, whatever the decision is, it should be standarized, that is my request.

Rewards are spoilers? ok, let's hide from all pages. Items that you can exchange like mystic turban is spoiler too? lets hide in all pages with items that can be exchanged, etc.

&raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 05:20, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

I think: if information is relevant enough to have a link to a quest article, then it should be hidden. But that's not good enough to be in a guideline. -- Sixorish (talk) 05:56, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Ok i understand that. What about exchange items like blue pocs or minor tokens? I dont see that kind of things like quest, but here are categorized as "exchange quests" &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 03:36, July 21, 2012 (UTC)

What about this:
 * All links or references to quests under spoilers.
 * All achievements references under spoilers, so we should remove from the TOC of the world changes.
 * All exchange items without spoilers, those arent quests.
 * No spoiler in quests trade list. I mean Rashid, Djinns, Gnomally (the way its now). This will apply to in reverse, so those items would not have "spoiler: sellable to gnomally".
 * In the future, any public information (anyone can know that information, doesnt require any kind of quest) will not have spoilers. Like the locations of Rashid or the soft boots repair.

What do you think? This covers pretty much, but for the rewwards situation. If the information about which rewards can be obtained in which quests is spoiler, we should hide it in the quest pages too. &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 03:23, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure about this world change thing. I think having the achievement column is very convenient. Otherwise it's a good idea. Should we make a poll or community discussion something to gain consensus? -- Sixorish (talk) 03:40, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

There is no need of poll or consensuns, it's all about making standards. I will ask you this: why the achievement "firefigther" have spoiler tags (spoiler: can be obtained through X world change) but the world changes DONT have that spoiler. You hide the info from one page but show in another.

We are not following standards but only what we think its "very convenient". The bad thing about "convenient" it's, things that you find convenient maybe i dont find it, or backwards.

Before making polls you should define some basic guidelines, rules, standards. Right now what will you ask? &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 03:59, July 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * why the achievement "firefigther" have spoiler tags (spoiler: can be obtained through X world change) but the world changes DONT have that spoiler.
 * Because we have to make a special exception for "rewards" like this. Same goes for quest overview pages, they state the rewards on that page, should we also hide those? By attempting to form a standard with quest pages we are not following any standard at all. Quest and (mini) world change lists should be exempt from spoiling standards because if you visit the page you are most likely wanting the spoilers anyway. If I am honest, I don't see the point in having spoilers on achievements page, because I see people going to there for one purpose - to find out the methods of achieving it.


 * We are not following standards but only what we think its "very convenient". The bad thing about "convenient" it's, things that you find convenient maybe i dont find it, or backwards.
 * The difference is, it harms nobody to include that content. I don't find the table on Pair of Soft Boots to be very useful, if I wanted numbers I could do the math, but I don't remove it because I see the potential for others' convenience. User convenience is the BEST policy I can think of, it should overrule any of our standards if we cannot incorporate them.


 * Before making polls you should define some basic guidelines, rules, standards. Right now what will you ask?
 * I meant gain consensus on your specific proposal. I have no problems with the guidelines proposed but at the end of the day, it's not up to me or you when there are thousands of viewers out there. We don't have much of a community right now and much less to monitor recent changes and post on this talk page, pretty much the only way we have to connect with our viewers is through polls - I don't like it but we have to work with that.

I would suggest the following guidelines:


 * Where a quest link is appropriate, it should be in spoilers.
 * Lists are exempt from spoiling standards (achievements, quests, world changes).
 * The following parameters should hold spoilers and any information not suited for these parameters should not be hidden: [NPC] notes [item] notes [creature] (field)notes
 * Quest links are appropriate when:
 * [creature] Quests and world changes if they are primary monsters (mamma longlegs and Vengoth vampire lords, but not e.g. vampire bride)
 * [items] Quests and world changes only if they are (a) obtained through it, (b) has a specific use as part of them (Prepared Bucket, has a specific use because you can't use bog water for anything else), (c) is spent (lost) in doing the quest (e.g. coconuts for paradox tower).
 * [NPCs] Quest and world changes only if they are very important NPCs for a quest which you talk to frequently (Commander Stone)

And the following changes: -- Sixorish (talk) 05:59, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * (Most) exchange quests are abolished. If they don't appear in the quest log and can be repeated infinitely (e.g. red robe>pocs), we can change them to a simple "trades x for y" and list it in the NPC/item pages (just as djinns have it listed).


 * "if you visit the page you are most likely wanting the spoilers anyway."
 * and is not the same situation in every quest page? c'mon, all the people who visit quest pages enters because they want to know the spoiler. this is what its wrong, we are not following any criteria, just our toughts of how it looks better.


 * "User convenience is the BEST policy I can think of"
 * And is not more convenient to delete the spoiler in the soft page? one less clic per user is not more convenient?
 * How it works now? i search soft boots, then i have to clic in the spoiler tag to show a link to the quest page that have another spoiler. every time we go to a quest through a item we ALWAYS pass 2 spoiler warnings. the question: "is not more convenient to simplify (in any possible way) that?" "it harms anyone to simplify that?"


 * Polls doesnt work for taking decisions, only as a feedback. Also you dont ask to the viewers every change you make, nobody does. And is not the only way to interact with your users, im a regular user interacting with you ;).
 * I support your proposals.

&raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 12:19, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Quest spoilers have been discussed elsewhere and I think it was almost unanimous agreement that the overview page is unnecessary and we'd change when a suitable style was agreed on.

People go to the soft boots page for more than just the spoiler, and it harms the user by spoiling information that they are not going to that article for. One of those clicks are due to the quest overview which as said, we agreed somewhere to change.

I know that polls are bad for this but understand that there is a much wider community and very little people actually comment on things that affect us all, because either they have no account or don't see the discussions. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:17, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Sixorish's proposals. Those are basically the guidelines we already use, but they weren't listed yet, I think.

Sez, there are players who don't like spoilers. For example, they might want to know Soft Boots details, but they don't want to know which quest they can get them from. And we have to think on their convenience too. Moreover, our visitors are already used to our standards, those who want to see the spoiler already know that they have to click on the flashy pink box. Lastly, remember that Tibia players usually don't like drastic changes, be in on Tibia or TibiaWiki. That's why I don't support some drastic changes.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) -  02:16, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

My intention was NEVER to discuss if we change anything, I just wanted guidelines to work with. Sixorish's works fine and it helps to solve most of the "conflicts". Lets agree with those guidelines and if further revisions are needed we can discuss that. But for now i think that works fine. &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 14:38, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

I couldnt resist to post this image here. This image its an example of what i say. Spoilers doesnt help to hide anything, but well, just look the picture. &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 14:17, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

I reduced the image size because it's hard to discuss with that in place.

I think that is an interesting case. I'm not sure how we should deal with that. Personally I find the spoiler tags to be a good feature because it groups quest and non-quest information, not because it hides that information from the viewer. I don't want to lose that organization (although I want that hidden spoiler to change...). The spoiler tags should say something more like: "major NPC of the traveling trader quest" in my opinion. Trades related data should not be hidden like that.

Tell me what you think of TibiaWiki:Standards/Items for items. Spoilers are at the end. -- Sixorish (talk) 10:26, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

It's ok, but you left out the achievements. Again there are not standardization, some pages like Piggy Bank have spoiler tags for the achievement and other item like Ice Cube doesnt. So, we put achievements hide in spoilers too or don't?

Also, i deleted spoiler tags from clay lumps and marble rocks, because they were only a link to the tibiastats article. What do you think if we add the line: &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 14:10, July 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Anything refering to statistics wont have spoiler tags.

Good job, Sixorish. :)

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 15:09, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

I think the following information should be considered as spoiling on item or object pages and should be put in spoiler tags:
 * the name of the quest this item is involved in or a reward of
 * the name of the achievement related to the item
 * the route to the item/object, if quest related

I think this is no different to the current de facto standard. It could be formalized, so I like Sixorish' approach with some additions. The route is also spoiling for e.g. Blooming Griffinclaw, that's why I think it needs to be added to the standard. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:19, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Shields
i think the page should have now 'level' and 'attributes' as some shields have level limit, and special attributes as Prismatic Shield,Rainbow Shield,Shield of Corruption and Ornate Shield ~ Vapaus (talk)

Thanks, I added level / resist / attrib to the list. -- Sixorish (talk) 22:51, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Videos
I want to know what is the position about links to youtube videos inside pages? I made one video for the last man standing event, it's my first one and it have a lot of flaws, but i think this kind of videos can be useful for some people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQtznvkoXeM&hd=1

Can i put a link inside the event's page? &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 03:23, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Sure, it's alright. There is a tiny problem in that some users or videos may get deleted from YouTube over time, though. I've had this idea in my head to make an official TibiaWiki channel where we can upload all those videos. Art Featherpitch (talk) 18:01, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I like the idea provided there is somebody or a team in charge of recording and editing videos. Unfortunatelly, I don't have time for that.

Sez, if you plight to this project, I think we can give it a try. Also, we could recruit other interested users. :)

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) -  02:26, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

There is one big disadvantage of videos against written guides. In written guides lot of people can contribute with small edits to achieve a perfect guide. In videos one single person must do all the work. I did the event, recorded it, edited, added notes, compiled and uploaded to youtube. That 5 minutes event turned in about 3 hours =S. Also videos can't be edited so easily as written articles, and only the person who recorded can edit.

I really have no idea of how this could be done =S &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 14:58, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

those are logistics that can be solved rather easily, for example : i do agree that videos could not realy be used in the concept of wikipedia but they can be added to articles and sometimes they are important, as on tibia's 15th anniversery when it's a one time event (page for example). bottom line is, it just needs to be decided and worked on, just my opinion.~ Vapaus (talk)
 * you need to find a person who knows how to edit videos well and has licensed programs (as this is an open source wiki).
 * raw video files could be uploaded in private links (there are alot of free file sharing services that you could upload those files to) and shared with the video editor.
 * you would need to find players with suitable characters that could record those spoilers following decided guide lines (for example, no bots, only use english etc).

Everything fails because raw files are too big.

File: shapeshifter.camrec Size: 2.20 GB (2,365,472,768 bytes)

Vapaus it seems you know about it, can you take care? &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 21:37, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

a premium account on a file sharing site will allow you to host it, or you could post it as a torrent and share it with the editor, or just send it over using a program as simple as WLM, you can also just split the file and upload the pieces. also that file is from a specific program, could be converted and reduced to a simple file format like mp4 or so.. i never said that i know everything about it i simply shared my thoughts. ~ Vapaus (talk)

Can you tell me how much time it will take with an upload speed of 128 kbps? Also all that time it wont let me play tibia or do anything else. It's impossible to me to do that.

And if the video its compressed before editing, it will look bad. In my video there is one part in which i put zoom to the server log:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQtznvkoXeM&hd=1&t=1m59s

It looks good because i did it with the raw file. With a compressed one that zoom will look awful. Those 50 megas i uploaded to youtube it took more than 1 hour, and it's compressed, cut, and lot of parts speed up.

I didnt said you you knew everything, please read careful. You claim that it was easy, so i said that "it SEEMS you know ABOUT IT". And it's most of organization, one thing that you claim it's really easy. So why you dont organize this? &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 00:19, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

your full HD file as it apears on youtube weighs 82mb of an mp4 file, simple calculation shows itll take you abit less than 2 hours to upload a 100mb file, you can do it anytime before you go to sleep or before you leave your house..so it wont interupt with your tibia playing time... if you would read everything i wrote you would see that theres also the possability that you (or any other person) may not fit for this project for whatever reason (for you itll be that your bandwidth is too slow) and as we both said, thats what make this project not in one with the wiki concept and if you wish to argue with me, post on my Talk Page cause i won't answer more provoctions from your side on this page ~ Vapaus (talk)

your full HD file as it apears on youtube weighs 82mb of an mp4 file, simple calculation shows itll take you abit less than 2 hours to upload a 100mb file you can do it anytime before you go to sleep or before you leave your house and if you wish to argue with me, post on my Talk Page cause i won't answer more provoctions from your side on this page I capture and edit videos, and i have uploaded videos to youtube and is not an easy work as you think &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 01:44, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * i said that! (again, youre not even reading my posts): Those 50 megas i uploaded to youtube it took more than 1 hour.(as it says in my previous comment)
 * Not a 2 gigas file. 2000 megas it will take MORE THAN 1 DAY.
 * '''im not arguing with YOU in particular, im sharing my thoughts with everybody who post here. But yes i didnt like it your comments because it's so easy to say "it's easy" but do nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c ~ Vapaus (talk)

Would the two of you please restrain yourselves? Art Featherpitch (talk) 15:58, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

In all my replies i have pointed out my opinion and always RELATIVE to the topic its being discussed. I have insisted that it's very hard to work in teams for this unless the "team" lives in the same city due to the big size of raw files.

One point of wikis it's to encourage users to add information and contribute by themselves, so the best thing it can be done its just start to add videos and make one page with a list of "wanted videos" and put an announcement in the news from tibiawiki staff.

The lack of videos in most pages makes some people think (like me) that is not allowed or desired to post videos here. Put some videos in some pages can encourage other uses to do the same. &raquo; Sez6 ~ Talk &laquo; 16:13, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

Replying to a post with the caps lock, isn't the ideal way of forming a conversation with someone, IS IT? Now, that comes that across as shouting to me. I'm not a fan of videos for plenty of reasons. It's nice for people to make videos and have people see their hard work. However, I see a lot of cons vs few pros.

If it took 3 hours to make one six minute video, it seems pretty pointless to me. Producing good quality and informational images barely takes 3 minutes if you know what you're doing. I think we all know that the quest pages need a good doing over. With the time it takes recording/editing videos and the time to make/save images, it comes across as a lot faster to just make the pictures. Either way the spoilers would still need updated and the transcripts checking. Then again, making videos isn't my thing, just seems like a lot of effort to me. Beejay (talk) 00:21, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

Creature ability standards
We need a standard by which creature abilities can be named. Consider the following wave, which I believe is the wave of most drakens: We call this "fire wave". A dragon's is much larger and is also called "fire wave". "Fire wave" does not include some of the very vital information but only an idea. So I propose these changes:

An entry in the standards: Changes to creature pages: to: or:
 * Creature abilities will use the format: [shape] ([damage], [target], [graphic], [element], [effects], {[area of effect]})
 * Shape: Takes a value:
 * Wave: conical, directional (e.g. {1,1,3,5,7})
 * Ball: circle or square (e.g. {3,5,7,7,9} and {3,3,3} )
 * Beam: line (e.g. {1,1,1,1,1,1} )
 * Berserk: 3 sqm square ( {3,3,3} ) with target=self (not sure if this one should be used since it falls under 'ball' as well)
 * Damage: numerical damage range
 * Target: if it is used on itself, "on itself"
 * Element: the element used, including manadrain
 * Effects: drunkenness, paralysis, etc.
 * Area of effect: the range around either the vertical or horizontal axis (the origin being the target's position)
 * Melee (0-300+), Fire Wave (0-520), Self-Healing.
 * Melee (0-300+), Wave (0-520, Fire, flame graphic, {1,1,3,3}), Self-Healing.
 * Melee (0-300+), Wave (0-520, Fire, {1,1,3,3}), Self-Healing.

This would only be used for area-based abilities.

Please give me your thoughts or suggestions on how to improve it. -- Sixorish (talk) 00:19, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

It's a nice idea!

I am not sure how it could be improved, though. I have some crazy ideas, but maybe they are unfeasible.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 04:15, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

There are only 76 effects on the tibia dat file and many of them are not attacks, animated images for effects on a single sqm can be generated, then we can make a template that includes a list of images and call it like:

The fire image is only an example, the template would give the corresponding image, it would display like this:

Fire Damage Wave (10-520)

or

Fire Damage Wave (10-520){1,1,3,3}

When clicked it would show a box below "Abilities" that has the animated image of the wave generated with shape data and a link to the damage type page.

Just an example box, the real one would have another animated "fire". <div style="position:relative;display:block;width:192px;height:170px;border:2px gray ridge;padding-top:20px;"> Fire Damage 10-520

Also so people know that there is something to display when they click we can change Abilities: for Abilities: (click them)

I believe the template can have extra parameters like creature, creature position and player position to be able to generate anything and maybe this template and this idea can be used for/as TibiaWiki:Spell Animation Project.

For non javascript users the template would link to damage type (or maybe other page). --Daniel Letalis (talk) 20:55, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

The standard proposal is more about area attacks in general, not just waves. For example how should we name the orewalker's "wave"? it goes something like:

Which resembles a beam more than a wave, but those 3 sqms are important, so we need a standard to name abilities.

I like your idea but can it handle AoEs in general? -- Sixorish (talk) 22:03, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

A beam for me is only if the attack is rect line(s) that don't change shape, that orewalker attack is a wave.

I will make some tests, but it is very possible. --Daniel Letalis (talk) 23:58, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Daniel, it's like you have read my mind. My idea was exactly the same, the window, using the parameters to generate the image.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 14:33, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

I like a popup image showing the wave! Let's make it work. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:43, August 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Orewalker: purple musical ball on itself that does no damage and causes drunkenness. Daniel's idea does not work with no-damagetype and no-damage moves. We have to name the move based on something else (probably graphic) or just call it "ball".
 * Dark Torturer: another no-damage musical attack with an effect.
 * Lizard Dragon Priest: they have some "berserk"-like attack which doesn't damage, but summons dragon hatchlings. It uses a earth/poison graphic so it would conflict with "earth ball" if we used a graphic description.
 * Humongous Fungus: poison bomb is an area attack, how do we name field area attacks?
 * Fury: "explosion wave does fire damage".
 * Wiggler: invisible (!!!) poison wave
 * Kollos: burst arrow (!!!) - hard to name it a "ball"

These are the most prominent examples I can think of. How shall we deal with each of these then? I mean their descriptions and not a JS demonstration. -- Sixorish (talk) 20:46, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Properties of attacks: Shape (waves, single tiles), Graphic (Blood-Hit,Fire,None), Location (Player or Creature, I'm thinking Waves are Creature area of effects are player). Would that cover all?

And so on, naming conventions could be user defined "Musical Drunk Bomb" but the parameters above would just correspond to a switch. Don't think there's anything else. For your beam shape it'd have to be named T-Beam or something.

<span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;"> Craggles  <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ <span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#6e86ff">Talk ∙ <font color="#6e86ff">Contribs  22:21, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

@Craggles: the user defined "musical drunk bomb" is exactly why I want change. It isn't standardized. I want a systematic way to name a creature ability not a user-defined ability. Many times I've avoided adding an ability just because I can't come up with a name that is descriptive but doesn't sound amateurish. For instance take a look at Obujos:
 * Great Cloud-Energy Bomb (200-600 causes Mana Drain)
 * Name suggests energy, energy, and more energy and then the description says 'causes manadrain'. Also "energy bomb" suggests a field, which it's not.
 * Ice Beam (600-1300)
 * Name is based on the element. Seems ok at the moment but it doesn't do this by any standard.
 * Eternal Winter Wave (Does Life Drain) (600-1500)
 * Name is based on the graphic. Does not do the element described by name.
 * Great Sudden Death Bomb (200-800)
 * Name is based on the graphic. Uses two negating words ('sudden death' is single-target, 'bomb' is either a field or multiple target)
 * Sudden Death (reduces distance fighting skill by 60%)
 * Name is based on the graphic. Does not do the element described by name.

-- Sixorish (talk) 23:13, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. We just need to take those above categories and stitch them together to form coherent (albeit specific and lengthy) names for moves. <Graphic> optional:<Shortened Effect (Drunk/ Dragon/ Etc)> if affect damage then ignore <Shape (AOE Sphere for Circle) (AOE Beserk/Local) for Box> <- that's the tricky bit, shapes and tibia names for shapes will vary <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;"> Craggles  <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ <span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#6e86ff">Talk ∙ <font color="#6e86ff">Contribs  00:03, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

Another case: the + shape move, at least 2 new monsters use it (lost berserker and ironblight) -- Sixorish (talk) 14:32, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * We can always just bucket the abilities into Direct Hits, AoEs and Waves and beams, then let the images explain the rest. <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;"> Craggles  <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ <span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#6e86ff">Talk ∙ <font color="#6e86ff">Contribs  17:03, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

It needs more generalising but the idea is there. The coordinate system works in my head quite well. If we had an image dimensions extension we could automate the creature position aswell. I plan on adding case functions for the general waves and other "named" attacks, <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;"> Craggles  <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ <span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#6e86ff">Talk ∙ <font color="#6e86ff">Contribs  22:04, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

I'm converting a little script I got to a template, I can't think something it doesn't include so I hope it works. --Daniel Letalis (talk) 02:29, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Theres also a difference in balls that a creature casts on himself (like UE) or balls that are casted on the attacker (like gfbs). This should get mentioned as well. And wasnt there allready a page for discussing the creature spells problem? foggy (talk) 00:44, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

I made this for the graphics w:c:dantest:Spell_Display, I still want to test more and try to reduce preprocessor usage, so if you want, test it on that wiki and let me know if you find problems or limitations. After this is tested, optimized and we have well defined standards we can think about implement it to Infobox_Creature with javascript, I believe it will be easy. --Daniel Letalis (talk) 07:50, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

Question regarding the "Wikia" theme/template.
Since 2-3 days back now I've been seeing a really stretched design compared to how it used to look. I've asked around and seem to be like this for everyone, although.. it's not on all pages but only the main page and a couple of others I have seen. The "my preferences" page looks completely normal and isn't stretched at all. What gives? :) -- Mr. H (talk) 07:50, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

A lot of people have complained about the old design because it is a fixed layout and wastes a lot of space, so on each pageload (only in the mainspace / content namespace) script will expand it.

We didn't do it sooner because we suspected it would be against Wikia's terms of use, but they (apparently) encourage changing the design.

Does the adjusted design bother you (or anyone else you've talked with)? -- Sixorish (talk) 06:37, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Also what came with the changes: you no longer land on a suggestion page if you type in e.g. "Rashid", if you know the exact name of a page then the search will take you directly to that page, as it used to. -- Sixorish (talk) 06:39, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how someone would be complaining about the fixed design really. I found it much easier and lenient to my eyes as I got a widescreen monitor. And why would only some pages be altered and not all of them in that case? Seems a bit pointless in my opinion. Is there ANY way for people who don't agree and want the fixed template back to disable the new script? Atleast let people have the chance to choose for themselves, please. And yes, I have also noticed the change in the search system, NOT a big fan of it as you now are required to have perfect grammar to find what you're looking for. In the past i could just type a word in either capital or lower-case letters and it would bring up a list of suggestions. Good ol' days. I found out though by changing the wikia template to the original old one that those options still existed, search wise. -- Mr. H (talk) 07:44, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

I can add support for an opt-out but I would rather adjust it to meet your needs. Maybe we can set a more appropriate fixed width to the content box to avoid it stretching absurdly.

I will check a few pages and change it soon, I want the content box to be wide enough to avoid text wrapping in NPC trades tables.

Just wondering: what are your screen's dimensions? -- Sixorish (talk) 08:01, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I prefer the wider content space. Its biggest advantage is that wider tables now fit instead of getting squashed.

Horisho, do you like the sidebars to the right of the infoboxes where you can easily navigate to related pages? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 10:40, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

That would be awesome if something in between could be worked out, Sixorish. As it looks now it feels a bit over the top haha. My current resolution im running is 1920x1080 on a 24" wide-screen monitor. And if I would be using the browser in maximized mode it looks HUGE, unlike any other site I seen. One could think there is no limit to the width it stretches. I'd be happy if it was just a bit bigger than before, to still keep those brown "side-spaces" outside the main-box that it had. Now it looks like 1 big box, with smaller boxes placed inside. Since I understand your concerns about the content boxes (worked some with coding myself in the past) I also understand it can't be to tight. -- Mr. H (talk) 11:13, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Bennie, I do. It's really handy and saves time when not completely sure what you are looking for. -- Mr. H (talk) 11:13, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Disable user blogs?
We rarely use them and is just another thing to moderate, maybe we should disable them? what you think?

--Daniel Letalis (talk) 01:08, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Yes I agree, but not before a community consensus with a poll, maybe? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 10:03, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

''TibiaWiki is not myspace, or any kind of blog. While we do allow people to create user pages to "show off", there are sites more suitable for blogging. ''

I don't think we really need to ask the community. This is already stated on Help:Getting started. Beejay (talk) 14:29, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

I agree it should be disabled. Then we would delete all pages on Category:Blog posts or leave them as they are? —Arkshi (Talk | contribs) 16:51, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

I agree too. We are used to discuss issues on talk pages. And it seems our community didn't like these blog pages too.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 22:16, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Just a thought
I think a lot of existing fansite owners would have the resources and desire to host TibiaWiki, and would not be so severe on advertising / limiting our rights.

-- Sixorish (talk) 22:40, August 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's taken us this long to get our fanbase back from the last move remember. <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;"> Craggles  <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ <span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#6e86ff">Talk ∙ <font color="#6e86ff">Contribs  23:18, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it took us that long. If anything people were reluctant to move because of the changes that were forced upon us (Monaco skin).

And I don't deny that it will be difficult to move and adapt, but everyday I hear people complain to me about Wikia's changes being counterproductive and making it hard to use. It's not getting better. We don't even have the right to change it, nor contest it.

I tried to change something and Wikia's response to that was to delete the script. It wasn't a "we understand your concerns and we'll negotiate with the community to accommodate for our needs and your wishes" it was an outright "your change is bad for our advertising model so I deleted it".

The more we contribute to Wikia, the harder it is for us to move. -- Sixorish (talk) 03:15, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

The issue with wikia is that they are hiring more inept people every day, just like Cip, and there is a point where people start noticing it, but whatever the reasons are, I don't think we deserve how wikia threat us or in other words, that wikia deserves us.

On the other side I don't think becoming "partners" with another fansite is worth it, mainly because I consider the main thing that moves most if not all of their actions is money, I believe a better option is to move to a host we pay and try to recover that money with ads, even if with time we profit and partially our motivation becomes money at least we would have independence. --Daniel Letalis (talk) 04:56, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Moving to a completely independent host is and will always be option #1 on my list. But we've had this discussion before, it didn't go anywhere. This is option #2. If another fansite has already shown to be capable of hosting a server, they should be ok running TibiaWiki.

I agree that most fansite owners are all about profit, but Wikia are too. If we moved it would also be a selfish move: moving is not necessary, but we can do much better than staying with Wikia. And I expect hosting TibiaWiki would be quite profitable, we may be able to negotiate a contract instead of all profits being designated to the hoster (just an idea, not sure how that would work). With Wikia we are their peons: we work for them, we have no say, we have no rights and we take their one-size-fits-all design, and there's no reward but the "satisfaction" of building their database and giving them profit.

TibiaWiki is undoubtedly the most popular fansite of Tibia, yet we are bound by strict policies that we can't contest; we lost all our rights when we moved here and for that reason it's not about community anymore. That's my main problem with the current system. -- Sixorish (talk) 05:37, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Back then, when we talked about moving and Erig bought www.tibiawiki.tw I had a talk with Steven from TibiaML. He had a good offer, moving to him, maybe it still holds. I have a few conditions though:
 * Our main motivation is to provide objective information, making money should be not an objective. Ideally none of use would be involved in the money process
 * A good contract should be made with our new partner or provider. We should have the ability to move away again, if needed.
 * Nobody of our admin team should have head responsibility for back end coding to keep the mediawiki software running. Ideally we our partner/provider could install extensions for us and stuff like that. (This is something I like about Wikia, a few times I needed an extension, like the extension and they installed it simple and clean for us, after a quick email).
 * I'm not sure if another provider would give as the speed Wikia has. They have servers over the whole world. Our provider would need at least one master and one slave server for continuous backup options.
 * The move should go smove and swift. Exporting/importing pages and edits is easy. Images and user accounts is a lot harder. Every person with at least one edit should be able to reclaim his/her account on the new domain.
 * We should think REALLY good about our name. I want people calling us Tibia Wiki, I hear people calling us Wikia nowadays (in Help channel in Tibia last week).

It will take effort to move. More effort than staying. The question is, are we up to it? Can we know for sure it would really benefit us in the end? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:04, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Just to put my voice in, I still support the move and would definitely be up for it. Hunter brought this discussion up after you retired from being Contact Person, not sure how he feels about it now but it's pretty clear that the only real issues were and still are, the MediaWiki and hosting/funds for this. Beejay (talk) 20:10, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Fuck it let's move to a not-shithole <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;"> Craggles  <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ <span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#6e86ff">Talk ∙ <font color="#6e86ff">Contribs  09:27, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Lets continue this discussion by email. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 10:02, August 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry to continue it here, but we could ask cipsoft if they'd make a special case for us and give us a server. They know we're good for it on ads. <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;"> Craggles  <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ <span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#6e86ff">Talk ∙ <font color="#6e86ff">Contribs  14:31, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

I've discussed with Sixorish on the last test server about moving to another wiki hosting service. Namely it would be Wikkii advanced hosting, you can look it on google for more information.

If you want to continue this via email, please don't forget to include me. —Arkshi (Talk | contribs) 16:19, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Maps
Right now I only use the Flash Client, I just mapped the second floor of a tomb to replace the outdated map here, but I'm not sure how to make a map for it (since the export function is gone AND the Tibia Map viewer can't view the new .dat file maps). Any ideas? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 09:02, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

Is this map not complete? Mirade has forwarded the issue so unless or until something gets changed, I suppose the only way to do it from "our" maps is to take screenshots of the minimap. Beejay (talk) 22:34, September 5, 2012 (UTC)

I made a php script to convert .sol map files to png, I'm not sure if it will work always or if all the map files on flash cache are always named correctly for it but for the maps I exported from c++ client is working. If you have a set of .sol maps where this is not working maybe you can email them to me so I try to improve the script.

https://sites.google.com/site/danielletalis/sol_to_png.zip --Daniel Letalis (talk) 07:17, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Beejay, that would work for maps added to the Mapper.

Daniel, how do I find these .sol files? I looked in my cache, but could only find some xml and swf files related to tibia. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:40, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

I have windows XP and don't use chrome, I have them on C:\Documents and Settings\<My user>\Application Data\Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\ \secure.tibia.com, the .sol map files should be in the same directory as a file named "listing.sol", if you have problems finding "listing.sol", maybe you can try "Everything" http://www.voidtools.com/ --Daniel Letalis (talk) 21:15, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I found it (it's a little different on Windows 7, I use firefox for the flash client, namely Appdata\Roaming instead of Application Data). 90.60 seconds for 230 MB. Outputs 16 PNG files with all map levels, nice job! -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:26, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

NPC standards
Please tell me what you think about this: TibiaWiki:Standards/NPC.

I came across some problems in coding a parser for the data we have ... main ones were: -- Sixorish (talk) 19:39, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * The sounds parameter follows no standard. We seem to follow a standard, but we don't. we have two separators: comma and semicolon. I could work around that, but then someone may introduce a new separator ... it's better to reduce to one.
 * Also, some of our NPC sounds are not enclosed in quotation marks, so it's hard to determine where a sound begins and ends.
 * Mapper links have the alt text "here" which is basically useless unless we render the page to find the links. The suggestion is to replace them with square brackets and the coordinates inside.

You can standardize the sounds with "sound1", "sound2" etc. But I dislike replacing the alttext for mapper links with coordinate numbers. It justs looks ugly and gives no info to the viewer at all. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:53, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

I dislike using coordinates for mapper links. We could use a blank alt text which would only generate the mapper icon, like this: Svargrond' tavern on Monday''' —Arkshi (Talk | contribs) 20:03, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

I like Arkshi's suggestion. My only request is that we can move it to a template to make the data accessible. In the template we could define a rule to follow where instead of a link to the mapper, the coordinates are given (because I really think this information is important) but the coordinates wouldn't appear except on specific data-extraction pages. -- Sixorish (talk) 20:16, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

The z (floor) is missing in the coordinates on the page.

You think modifications should be done to the mapper so besides the current system(127.128, 124.128, 7) we can use shorter real coordinates(32640, 31872, 7)? --Daniel Letalis (talk) 23:52, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

Oops, I forgot about z.. figured it defined zoom levels or something. I think real coordinates may be easier to understand, but it wouldn't be consistent with Tibia so maybe it's a bad idea.

The main reason I want this data accessible is so we can display the coordinates on pages like User:Sixorish/DPL/NPC/Data1, which I am using to generate data for w:c:sixtest:Project:API4. It uses raw text so the coordinates aren't available. If it was moved to a template, we could define something like, so it becomes accessible as text. With all NPC mapper coordinates, it would be possible to code e.g. a map viewer with all NPCs marked.

Personally I don't mind how it's displayed (or if it's displayed at all) on the NPC pages.. the reason I am suggesting is because the information can be used outside of NPC pages. -- Sixorish (talk) 00:22, September 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sounds standards - Good job!
 * Each sound with an own parameter (sound1, sound2, ...) - Ok, if needed.
 * API - Great idea!
 * Map coordinates parameter & using "official" coordinates - Good idea! Actually, I was about to ask for a Coordinate Converter to convert coordinates from the "official" system to our Mapper's current system in order to utilize a few hundreads locations ;).

Since we are talking about new NPC parameters, why don't we create a "Radius" parameter or "Minimum Radius" parameter (since it's impossible to determine some NPCs' radius)?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 00:53, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Infobox World Quest and Quest
Template:Infobox_Quest and Template:Infobox World Quest could and probably should be merged, agreed?

<span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;"> Craggles  <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ <span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#6e86ff">Talk ∙ <font color="#6e86ff">Contribs  08:33, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

The only significant difference between the two templates is that they each have three distinct quest types (exchange, addon, outfit vs. world change, -event, -task) which merely set corresponding categories. I see no reason not to merge them if no one objects. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 00:46, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

No objections either. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 07:16, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Infobox NPCs
Should we transclude transcripts below the infobox template? That'd be all their info but history in one nice scrolling page. <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:4px; font-size:90%;"> Craggles  <span style="align:right;background:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid #000091; padding:1px; margin-left:0px; font-size:90%;border-left:0px">ಠ_ಠ <span style="background:#DBDBDB; border:1px solid #000091; border-left:0px; padding:1px; margin-right:6px; font-size:90%;"> <font color="#6e86ff">Talk ∙ <font color="#6e86ff">Contribs  06:56, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I'm in favor. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 07:46, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

I also like the idea. Beejay (talk) 13:45, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Main page and Recent changes filter problem
The right column at Main Page is broken, it was moved to the bottom of the left column instead of displaying by its side.

Also, the namespace filter at the Recent changes page is not working, it doesn't matter which namespaces you select, it will always display "All" when you click "Go". I've tested with a different user account and it has the same problem. When no user is logged in, you get the old filter, which works. —Arkshi (Talk | contribs) 18:46, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

I see no bugs on the main page, but the namespace filter is bugged indeed. Also, the search windows is removed from the recent changes page, which is kinda annoying. (I visit that page frequently and use it as a starting point to look up articles sometimes). -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:34, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

It can be seen in Monobook. It was fine yesterday so is this to do with Wikia's changes? Beejay (talk) 19:53, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

Oops, I forgot to mention it could only be seen using monobook, sorry. It most likely was caused by Wikia, but I thought they were making changes only to the wikia skin. —Arkshi (Talk | contribs) 20:34, October 3, 2012 (UTC)

Proposals: item / trades system changes
Proposal 1: Like we have Template:Teaches. The trades templates are designed for transactions involving money; adding them to trades templates will bug sorting and just make things more complicated than they have to be.
 * Remove all item-for-item transactions from trades templates (price to buy, price to sell, trades/sells, trades/buys), and make a new one specifically for item-item trades.

Examples: -- "Mushroom Backpack" "Gnomally: 15 Minor Crystalline Tokens" -- "Fighting Spirit" "Haroun: -2 Royal Helmets" "Yaman: -2 Royal Helmets"

Proposal 2: Variations of the items should be specified in the notes. This applies for liquids, keys etc..
 * All items in trades templates should reference a specific item.

Examples:

Before the change: --"Fibula Key" "Dermot: 2000" "Simon the Beggar: 800" --"Key 3033" "Shirith: 50" --"Bottle of Water" "Tanaro: 2" --"Bottle of Milk" "Livielle: 15" After the change it would look something like this: --"Wooden Key" "Dermot: 2000; Key 3940" "Simon the Beggar: 800; Key 3940" --"Silver Key" "Shirith: 50; Key 3033" --"Bottle" "Tanaro: 2; water" "Livielle: 15; milk"

Proposal 3: Also, those items need to be split if their in-game IDs are different. The Lists category is used as a filter for some DPL pages, where we want to exclude duplicates (or in this case 'overviews').
 * All items that do not pertain to specifically 1 item should be given the Lists category.

Examples: - Backpack, this item does not exist by itself, it is essentially an overview of backpacks. - Tapestry, same thing but for tapestries. We don't have pages 'Yellow Tapestry' etc., they need to be created. Proposal 4: We don't list boat fares in the trades table... so why other intangibles?
 * Do not use the trade system for intangibles.

Examples: --"The Spiritual Shielding Blessing" "Norf: -2000 gp and an extra 200 gp for each level up to 120" --"The Embrace of Tibia Blessing" "Humphrey: -2000 gp and an extra 200 gp for each level up to 120" --"The Spark of the Phoenix Blessing" "Kawill: 0" "Pydar: -2000 gp and an extra 200 gp for each level up to 120" -- "Promotion": "Emperor Kruzak: 20000" "Emperor Rehal: 20000" "Ishebad: 20000" "King Tibianus: 20000" "Queen Eloise: 20000" -- "Ticket for Exhibition": "Cillia: 50; By talking to her"

Please tell me what you think about these. -- Sixorish (talk) 17:45, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with all, especially with proposal 3. I was thinking on separating objects by their ID as well, but this would require too much work. —Arkshi (Talk | contribs) 20:29, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

I also agree. Beejay (talk) 20:39, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I don't understand your meaning in the sentence "will bug sorting". Can you clarify? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 21:54, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Bennie: MediaWiki comes with JavaScript to sort table rows according to column contents. It can sort alphabetically and numerically. It determines which to sort by, by checking the contents of the column sorted. If we mix strings and numbers it will sort alphabetically, so 1000 comes after 1 but before 2. -- Sixorish (talk) 01:27, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

I've noticed this bug happening on a lot of creature DPLs. Is there any fix or work-around? I thought on using "0010, 0100, 1000" to solve it but it would look terrible. —Arkshi (Talk | contribs) 02:20, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

A fix would be to remove the strings from the data... a workaround would be to add data-sort-type="number" (meta). It is much, much better if you eliminate the strings.

I reworded some of the proposals (2 and 3) to clarify: the 'item name' of keys for example is 'Copper Key'. -- Sixorish (talk) 04:58, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Sixorish, I finally understand your proposals after trying to add the new trade system to the Containers category. Santa Backpack is item-for-item trade with a NPC, the way I fixed it now looks a little weird, but I think it's ok for now. I agree something must be done to fix these situations, but I'm not sure which one of your proposals is the best.. Also, the Backpack and Bag pages are a problem as well... I think one of these things should be done:
 * apply the new trade system to these pages, remove all info about other backpacks and bags (they have their own pages)
 * to prevent info from getting completely deleted, move the info to Notes
 * move the info about other backpacks and bags to a disambig page

What do you think? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:46, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Bennie.. the proposals don't conflict, I am proposing all 3 changes, not one of the three.

I like the idea of disambigs but if we go down that track I would suggest an alternative: This way we can conform to the requirements of the trade system, but not lose all the information on those pages. When I mentioned the list category, I had in mind excluding it from item lists (using DPL), but thinking about the trade system... we really need to get rid of those because they are incompatible, we can't give them an npcvalue or buyfrom because they aren't the same item. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:52, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Create a template which lists each backpack (this is to ease editing in the future when more backpacks are created), this would go in the notes of every backpack page, as a form of navigation.
 * Redirect Backpack to Brown Backpack. Brown backpack is the 'general' backpack in game.. it is the best page to land on.
 * Brown Backpack will have a note at the top: "This is an article about brown backpacks. For other backpacks, see Backpack (Disambiguation)"

I agree with the proposals, but I didn't understand this:

<i>"Backpack, this item does not exist by itself, it is essentially an overview of backpacks."

"Redirect Backpack to Brown Backpack. Brown backpack is the 'general' backpack in game"</i>

Actually, the brown backpack is called "a backpack" ingame (same for the bag). So we should follow the naming standards and have an article named "Backpack" for that item, i.e., we should change the article to focus only on the brown backpack (and create other articles for others backpacks).

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 23:20, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Oops, thought it was called 'Brown Backpack', so we should name it Backpack (basically as it is now) and have that page contain stuff relevant to backpacks in general in the notes, with a templated list of backpacks. The buyfrom, sellto, droppedby of Backpack would be only those that sell/buy/drop brown backpacks (other info will be on the specific backpack page). -- Sixorish (talk) 04:54, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

I just applied the new trade system to Backpack and Bag and made overview pages called Backpacks and Bags. I thought it would be useful to have the buyfrom info on those overview pages, but I'm not sure how to do this since regular expressions are not possible within DPL (?). Also, Mushroom Backpack behave really strange, it appears to be outside the Category:Containers...

Sixorish, then I agree with proposal 1. I haven't encountered the problems which are solved by proposal 2 and 3, so it's hard to judge if they are necessary (but I might in the future). -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 10:48, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Mushroom backpack problem was a caching issue, a null edit fixes it. I experienced a few problems similar (weren't being added to Category:Items), a real annoyance with DPL...

The proposals are not necessarily requirements (we can work around them), I am proposing a standard so that we have guidelines to fall back on when they are challenged, rather than having to discuss every change. I think these proposals fit best because if we included intangibles, we would have to include boat fares. These are more 'services' than 'goods'. -- Sixorish (talk) 11:41, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Restyling / restructuring?
What do you guys think about a major revamp of our template styles and/or how they are presented? We've had the current style pretty much since inception, maybe it's time for an update.

(no ideas just yet, just wondering about the concept)

To be clear: not expecting a massive change that requires 5000 edits, just changes to our templates. Could be as simple as a change of background color or repositioning of information within them.

-- Sixorish (talk) 06:29, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

That's ok, but I like it if all infobox templates look alike (so any change should apply to all of them). And I think the text in the Template:Infobox Book needs a nicer font than simply monospaced unformatted. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 07:24, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. We could also do some revamp on the main page. I don't want to go off-topic but I've been thinking we could also include relevant news from Tibia.com. —Arkshi (Talk | contribs) 14:00, November 8, 2012 (UTC)