User talk:Whitelaces

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Semantic MediaWiki Extension
I'm just wondering if the Semantic MediaWiki Extension wouldn't be a good addition to TibiaWiki, as it would be able to auto-generate the Items- or Monstertables and you could even search for specific Items (which food-item has a higher Regen/Weight-Rating than normal meat?). You can sort these tables and won't have to worry anymore if they are correct if any item changes (as the changes made in Item-Pages would obviously be ported to the tables). I would be happy to help updating the pages for Semantic MediaWiki.

It looks like it would help (after being initially setup), but I cannot seem to decide if it is the "best" extension to use for this purpose (if Erig decides to implement any).

Here are the ones that I have encountered since I originally read your post to Erig's talk page:


 * Semantic_MediaWiki
 * Seems to be one of the most "advanced", but I do not see alot of room for controlling the output formatting for the lists. The output format that I think we would actually use in this wiki is listed as "unstable" in the documentation. The syntax for implementing the data values is flexible, but unfamiliar, and I think it would be very difficult to maintain with the type of users we have on this wiki.


 * WikiDB
 * In the short amount of time I have researched this topic, I think I like this extension the most. The syntax for defining the pages is very close to the standard template usage, so there would be a small learning-curve, and very little confusion over the change. This one also has an easy syntax for repeating lists using variable substitution and wiki markup, so it looks like it would be a smooth transition for the list pages. This one is also the most highly-structured one I have encountered, which has benefits and drawbacks.


 * DynamicPageList
 * This one has some additional features that are interesting, but I cannot evaluate how it would be used if this extension was implemented. This is the only extension of its kind that I can find that is actually listed as being a "stable" release. Even the Symantic extension is in beta.


 * Infobox_Data_Capture
 * This one looks very simple. I don't think it has the capabilities to do what we would need in this wiki.

The final decision is clearly Erig's to make, and since an extension like this would drastically change the way the articles on this wiki are written, all avenues should be evaluated before deciding on one.

-- Quisque comoedus est  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 09:27, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Question about "Template" pages
Hi Whitelaces, I got a question. How do you create a Template page? Just  Template:pagename ? Are there any requirements for a Template-page? Thanks in advance,

 Wie niet slim is moet slim zijn  ^^  &ordm; Bennie &ordm;  &curren; Talk &curren; ^^ 11:30, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

Yes. That's right. Edit a template page to have an idea how you have to build it to fit like the others, for example the Template:Dragon. When you are done and you want to include it, just write and it will display the template.

-- Maverick the hunter ω talk ω contribs 13:11, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

Let's stay in template topic... I find it anoying that almost all creature class templates includes a "complete" creature class list, since there are some monsters that'd fit into several classes (e.g. Pirate Ghost), and their page would show the "complete" list twice or more.

That's why I think we shouldn't include the complete list in all creature class templates but instead put it directly to the page of present creature.  Art Featherpitch - The mispseller -  Spam me     13:45, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

Bennie, that is correct. The "Template:" namespace is treated in a slightly different way from the global namespace, so all templates should be placed there. You can learn a lot about templates from looking at examples, but not all of the templates in this wiki are "good" examples, so I would actually suggest that you get most of your information from Wikipedia's template help pages. If you have any questions or get stuck on something, please ask.

-- Canis meus id comedit  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:18, 1 June 2007 (PDT)

Elder Beholder Abilities
Dear Whitelaces, Could you please review the Elder Beholder Talk Page, taking note of what I mentioned and provide clarification on the matter. Perhaps you have information to confirm either way about the Elder Beholder's abilities. Reards, Clyde

Okay. I'll take a look at it.

--'' Magister Mundi sum! '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:28, 4 June 2007 (PDT)

Rat Edit
Hey why did you revert my edit to the rat page? o.o Kris 08:32, 4 June 2007 (PDT)

According to the official Tibia.com creature library:

''Rats have 20 hitpoints. It takes 200 mana to summon or convince these creatures.'' ''Rats yield 5 experience points. They carry cheese, gold coins, and worms with them.''

You had changed it to to 5 hp and 20 experience points.

--'' Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 09:16, 4 June 2007 (PDT)

my page help
Hey sorry for doing this here I just didn't know where else to put it. On my character page ([| Melphaso]) at the bottom of the page I keep getting something popping up that says "#ifeq:yes" How can I get rid of that? I just reloads the page.

This problem has been discussed on the bug reports page.

The short answer is that you need to do one of these two things:

First option: Turn "showstats" OFF:
 * showstats    = no

Second option: Place the damage calculator(s) on a subpage

One of those two will solve the problem.

--'' Docendo discimus. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:48, 5 June 2007 (PDT)

Game Worlds
Is it me, or that s shouldn't be there?

Any idea what's that? -EMbet-5 Jun 2007 the no includes must be there or information that shouldnt be displayed will be displayed on the game worlds page &iquest;  Dis&Aring;st&eacute;r M&oacute;nt&ecirc;iro &#164;  T&atilde;lk &#164; &iquest; 08:35, 5 June 2007 (PDT)

It's fixed now. The noinclude tags were not closed on the gameworld pages.

--'' Cave canem. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 09:16, 5 June 2007 (PDT)

Thank you!
Hi Whitelaces, I want to thank you very much! Today on 6 Juni 2007 at 14:09 you did a historical thing. You added the page Hunting Places to the "Popular Pages" list! An ordinary editor, like me, could only dream of such honor. By the way, It's an honor for me you added the Hunting Places page on the Main Page because I started with it :) You can see it in the history . Thanks a lot,

 Wie niet slim is moet slim zijn  ^^  &ordm; Bennie &ordm;  &curren; Talk &curren; ^^ 08:20, 6 June 2007 (PDT)

The real reason I added it to the main page, is because it had a high number of visits (especially for not being well-linked), and I think it is a page that many people find useful on this wiki.

It's not actually that big of a deal. At any rate, there's not much glory to be had working on a wiki like this... it is a community effort. I try to give credit where it is due, but you really have to find some intrinsic motivation instead, or you will just get burned-out.

--'' Non plaudite. Modo pecuniam jacite '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 19:21, 6 June 2007 (PDT)

How many have visited a page
Is it possible to see? :P


 * Scroll right to the bottom of any random page and it'll say "This page has been accessed x times. This page was last modified x.

An erig.net site." Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] 

You can also see this information in the list at Special:Popularpages.

-- Mirabile visu  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 19:14, 6 June 2007 (PDT)

Insects and Poisonous insects
I was looking through the templates of creatures and it appears we infact have a template for insects - then a template for insects and poionsous creatures. Could you explain why or possibley delete one? '''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

It looks like it was an accident. Make sure that all links are moved to use only one of them, and that one template is accurate, then we can delete the other one.

-- Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est.  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:22, 11 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Do i just put that template on the pages I wan  to be rid of then?

Yeah. That's it.

-- Ridiculum sum, ergo sum  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:10, 11 June 2007 (PDT)

Wwwzhudan Vandal
The user Wwwzhudan ( talk &bull; contribs &bull; [/&bot=1 bot contribs] &bull; [ block log] &bull; block ) has vandalized. Please review their edits and take appropriate actions if necessary.

Sincerely, Art~

I have left a warning on his talk page. If it happens again, he will be blocked from editing.

-- <span title="(latin) Yes, that is a very large amount of corn.">Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est.  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:22, 11 June 2007 (PDT)

@ Preparing for Creature type update thingy
Did you already have a plan as to where the information would be set on the page? Or would you like me to propose an idea? '''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

I'm always open to new ideas, but here's what I have in mind:


 * There will be a new line that says "This is a boss creature" or something like that
 * The "primarytype" and "secondarytype":
 * automatically categorize pages
 * maybe something similar to the lists on the right-side of the items pages....but probably underneath the infobox. I was going to play around a little and see what looked good.

-- <span title="(latin) We are amused by an excellent joke">Ioco optimo delactamur  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 13:51, 12 June 2007 (PDT)
 * I was thinking that these extra info things would latch on in such a way that.


 * You'd have a purple box, the same width as the Creature infobox, that would display if it were a boss monster.


 * On the right a box for primary creature info e.g apes(like in the items section) that can be dragged up or down dependant on how long the list of primary creatures is. This would automatically categorize as you said.


 * On the bottom of the Info box there'd be a box (similiar to boss monsters but a different colour no doubt - perhaps blue, probably blue) that would display all the creatures in the secondary category. Perhaps they could be clickable images (clickable meaning they'd direct you to their creature's page - maybe even have a hover over option) as listing hundreds creatures isn't practical and it's much easier to navigate images.


 * At the bottom of the page the creature types template for extreme ease of navigation. It'd be completely seperate from the infobox and it'd be before any extra information like if the article is a stub or what npc's have to say.

I definatly think those wikipedian shades of purple and blue must be involved. I also think the use of images is a must because people can scan through images far quicker than they can names.

I hope you agree.

'''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

Sounds pretty close to what I had in mind... I'll try a few things and see what seems to work best.

Expect to see something finalized in the next day or two, unless there are more ideas or discussions from anyone.

--'' <span title="(latin) I came, I saw, I got scared, I ran!">Veni, vidi, territus sum, curcurri! '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 14:19, 12 June 2007 (PDT)

Okay... I updated the template, but I had to make a few compromises.

I added both lists to the right (like on the items template). I think this looks the cleanest, and is very easy to read... when I had the list below the infobox, it was very distracting, and it obscured the content of the infobox.

I tried it with images, but I could not make it look good. Every way I tried made the whole thing look fake and unprofessional, so for now it is just using the text.

I had a similar problem with the "isboss" indicator... adding a new line above the infobox was too "cartooney" looking, and it seemed to unnecessarily draw your attention. I thought that the content of the infobox was more important than the one line that said "this is a boss creature".

So, these are the decisions I had to make. I think it looks pretty good, but I'm sure that we will find a way to improve it in the future. For now, it is a large improvement over the current methods.

So you can see it in action, I updated a couple creature pages:
 * Monk
 * Green Djinn
 * Dragon
 * The Old Widow

--'' <span title="(latin) Gag me with a spoon!">Fac me cocleario vomere! '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:47, 13 June 2007 (PDT)
 * I like it :) You know it says under some items that have an annotation like with golden armor it has in italics below the title It's enchanted armor, could we put this creature is Secondarytype and link it to Secondarytype's page (we'd have to redirect Misc of course). So it's say:

Giant Spider

This creature is a(n) Arthropod

See what i mean? '''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

I see what you mean, but I would call that something else... like "supertype" or "category" or something like that. The "secondarytype" was really just so that one creature could belong to more than one type.

Let me think about it a little bit. There might be a better way to do what you are talking about.

--'' <span title="(latin) I am not lost.">Neutiquam erro. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 07:09, 13 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Another thing - instead of haveing to update the Template:NAME lists by hand could we possibley use the information n the categories to do it? My knowledge on wiki coding is limited so what i'm asking is that the template would recognise that say Categor:Dragons has demodras dragon and dragon lord and it would add each of those to the template. Is it at all possible? '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

Funny you should mention that... I'm actually in the process of coding a bot that will do exactly that.

There is no way to do it in the wiki itself, but I'm about 45% done with this bot that will maintain those lists for both item types and for creatures types. It will actually build those lists based on the "primarytype" and "secondarytype" parameters directly on the creature pages.

I'm in the middle of something else at the moment, but that bot is next on my list.

--  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 08:10, 13 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Do you rekon that it'd be done before or after the update just by guess? Are you thinking of expanding this to absolutly everything with an info box in wiki?

'''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

I expect to have it done maybe this week (might be able to finish it up over the weekend).

About the scope... I don't know. So far it seems to have helped make the items pages easier to use, and I anticipate that the creature pages will benefit from it also, but I'm not sure how necessary it is for the other infoboxes.

We'll just have to wait and see. Was there something specific you had in mind?

-- <span title="(latin) Stupid is as stupid does">Stultus est sicut stultus facit  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 09:44, 13 June 2007 (PDT)
 * There was always a place in my heart for the library section of wiki - can't think how it could be used for it though... I'd like to see a side scroll bar like in creatures and items on the library template. But i doubt the bot would have much work to do there.Unles you could make it automatically categorize books by their return page, and it'd add a Library template to each (like at the bottom of Template:Infobox Book '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

I think that would be best left to "intelligent" wiki users. Wiki bots are best used for repetitive or tedious tasks that do not require any brains. Bot writers need to be extremely careful when determining what to have them do, and in a small wiki like this, most things are better left to real people, instead of trying to automate everything. I really hesitate to implement any bots against this wiki, but there are a few things that I think would greatly benefit from being automated.

-- <span title="(latin) Behold the power of cheese">Ecce potestas casei  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 12:28, 13 June 2007 (PDT)
 * I notice that there's a small edit war going on with the dragons. I was hoping to leave off undead dragons and dracola until your bot (if it could) would automatically update creature images and creature lists. See Humans and you'll notice under each link there is a list of all the creatures in that sub-group, in that sub group theres a list of monsters (alphabetically) Then boss or bosses. All these refer back to the Template:NAME List s, so as soon as we edit that list alone we'd have to update each of these pages. That's why I'd like to refrane from adding any creatures to secondary type lists until your bot (if it can) can refer to categories and ifboss section to update each of this pages effected. Hope I've made my views clear  '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

I didn't notice the "small edit war" you mentioned, but now I see what you mean about needing updated in many different places.

This is definitely a consideration for the bot I'm writing, and I guess I'll refrain from making those kinds of edits for now.

The thing that needs to be up-to-date (where the bot will be getting its data) is the individual creature pages. As long as each individual creature page has the correct "isboss", "creatureclass", etc. tags, then it will fix all of the other lists automatically (once it is finished and turned on).

--'' <span title="(latin) I am the Master of the World!">Magister Mundi sum! '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:16, 14 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Do you think it can consider for plurality (and I was hoping that'd it'd automatically organise everything with just the information on the creature's page) as in like Skeleton Boss for 1 and Pirate Bosses for plural? Also - rememeber the bot will have to consider Creature Types, and the sub poages involving listing by exp - and by ratio, etc. In my defense I did no choose to make these pages I just chose to reorganise the clutter of a categorized creatures section we had. '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

I'll look into it, but the architechture I have so far does not easily allow for handling plurals in the section titles.

About those other lists... they are useful, and serve a good purpose. The main problem is that they are so huge, and they take a long time to load. It adds more stress on the server because of the transcluded pages, and they are difficult to update manually because they load so slowly.

I don't have any "grand ideas" about how to fix this problem, but for now I can make sure they are always up-to-date by automating their maintenance.

-- <span title="(latin) Yes, that is a very large amount of corn.">Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est.  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:43, 14 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Now you mention it - why does the server have slow patches. I usually edit when theres literally on my server, I assume that means there are very few people viewing or editing wiki, and yet sometimes wiki gets a 500 internal error (for like 20 seocnds) and others it just takes (I clocked it at 300 seonds for a page yesterday) ages to load. Is erig's server just overheating or something? Or are all these edits taking their toll? '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

There's a couple reasons for it... actually a combination of things.

The largest amount of stress on the server (I think) is caused by the large number of edits in a small period of time. If you check Special:Statistics, you can see that the server's job queue is pretty large right now, and it will continue to grow as we make "sweeping edits" to a large number of pages (especially templates).

The other major factor is the number of people reading the wiki. Pages that do not have any templates or includes should load pretty fast, but some of our wiki pages have a LARGE number of includes, and use many different templates. All of these need to be processed on the server every time the page is requested by a user.

Basically, because the wiki is popular (especially before and after game updates), the wiki sometimes goes slow.

--'' <span title="(latin) Carthage must be destroyed">Delenda est Carthago. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 07:22, 14 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Won't you bot therefore cause alot of lag when it's initialy setup? Also - I've been thinking about This secondary Class thing and I've got some problems and some vague solutions.

Take for instance an undead dragon. It's a skeleton and fits under the Category The Undead pretty well. If it had a secondary as that of a dragon then your bot would update the reptile page to show an undead dragon under reptilian. Obviously a skeleton cannot be reptilian - reptilians are alive. A vague solution would be to get the bot to add to The Dragons page (and others alike) if necessary a Secondary attributes header and list creatures with similiar attributes to that category - for dragons we'd have dracola, undead, (hydras, serpent spaw?), not bones - anniversary not included. Then I'd suggest we request that the bot does not add these as images on the reptile page(for instance) as it may cause some confusion. I'd like to request that the bot then adds a Secondary Attributes Section to the Template:NAME List, this may all be over complicated and theres probably some quick and this may infact need an intellegent user to do, but I can hope. I would jsut rather the whole section be done well, cos I'd have a beholder to be listed under human.. '''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

To address your concerns:


 * Lag for the server:
 * I have specifically designed this bot to be "nice" to the server. Once every few days it will attempt a full update of the list of creatures (in case new ones were added), but daily actions will be timed and limited. It will only update one list at a time, and it will wait a number of minutes or hours between updates. It will also monitor the recent changes (even to where it will know which fields were changed on each creature page) to know which lists need to be updated, so it will not make unnecessary edits. It should not put more strain on the server than a normal wiki editor.


 * Multiple types:
 * I'm not sure what you are explaining exactly, but I have recently changed how those other creature pages work. I have simplified them, and because of this, it should be easier for wiki editors to maintain. Also, the Creatures page will load MUCH MUCH faster now, and will provide links to the type groups of creatures in the same way that the Items page is now.

Does this answer your questions?

-- <span title="(latin) We are amused by an excellent joke">Ioco optimo delactamur  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 13:54, 14 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Well that partly addresses my concern - the main point I was trying to get across is that the bot should involve a Secondary attribute sections to the Template lists and the Creature(pluraals) pages. Take for instance an undead dragon. On the creatures page it would be listed under skeletons and the undead primarily. However if we added it to Dragons aswell as a secondary class it'd appear under reptiles. We know an undead cannot be a reptile, and so the categorization of an Undead Dragon would be incorrect. Unless we for the Dragons list on the Dragons page and the Creatures and the Template:Dragons put the Undead Dragon under Secondary attribute. We'd link this to a Secondary attribute article which would say this is a secondary attribute and as such may not adhere to all the specifications of that species. Primaryclass creatures are all matched and work to a strict code - secondary class creatures should be a seperate part of the pages because they won't follow what the categorizes and classes specify. I don't know how to make myself clearer - it's quite confusing. '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

Well... currently, the "creatureclass" is assigned manually, and there can only be one for each creature. So Undead Dragon will only be in the "Undead" class. But since it is clearly also a dragon, it is listed as a "Skeleton" and a "Dragon".

I'm not sure how we would distinguish "primary" and "secondary" types on those lists, without confusing readers. We need to ensure that the learning curve for reading this wiki is as small as possible, and every way I can think of to distinguish them would unneccesarily complicate the list.

I think we need to be more flexible in how we consider the "types"... compare these two statements:


 * 1) "Only reptiles can be put in the Dragons list."
 * 2) "Most creatures listed as dragons are reptiles, so we should put dragons in the class of reptiles."

I agree that we should be as complete and accurate as we possibly can, but this is not a formal taxonomy, and we primarily need to consider the viewpoint of people using the wiki. This means that we should employ hueristics and logical cognitive grouping techniques, even when they may not fix strictly in the "single-path" tree structure.

You have done a fabulous job working on these lists, and we need to keep them usable, so that your hard work yields great benefit for all wiki visitors.

--'' <span title="(latin) Say, you sure are drinking a lot.">Re vera, potas bene. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 14:19, 14 June 2007 (PDT)
 * So what you're saying is for the time being secondary class groups would cause issues; the question is how do we stop edit wars without protecting the pages. Remember the little edit war on Dragons, how do we stop users adding Undead Dragons and Dracola? You know aswell as me people will jump at any oppurtunity to add. Also - would yuo say a frost dragon is a reptile, because it doesn't look reptilian whatsoever and I'm considering moving it to Cryo-Elementals. '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

I'm not sure it would cause that many problems. I actually think that Undead Dragon should be listed under both "skeleton" and "dragon", but primarily, it is an undead/skeleton. Adding it to both lists increases its visibility. Also, I find it equally likely that someone looking for "Undead Dragon" would start looking at either "undeads" or "dragons", so for usability, I think it should be listed in both places.

About frost dragon, I think it is the same deal. It should be classified as an "elemental", and its primary type should be "cryo-elemental", but I think it should also be listed in "dragons", so that people can find it from there.

Basically I guess I'm talking about increasing the accessability of the information in this wiki, and making it more usable for visitors. I do not think we can adequately limit each creature to only one "type".

-- <span title="(french) It's the finish of the greenbeans">C'est la fin des hericots  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 14:42, 14 June 2007 (PDT)
 * So at the price of accuracy comes accessibility Super:). Can we implement the secondaries after your bot's running though - I don't fancy editing everything individually. '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''
 * Ok, new idea. Why can't we (under the list on the right assumabley) say (if secondary class) this creature may also share qualities of (secondarytype). Would that work? '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

On Undead Dragon, the "secondarytype" produces the list on the bottom (dragons). Is this what you mean?

-- <span title="(latin) Always wear underwear on your head.">Semper ubi sububi in caput tuum  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 08:29, 15 June 2007 (PDT)
 * No not a secondary list - just a setence stating that the monster has attributes of another creature group. So for instance on the undead draogn's page it would have the list of skeletons and then under that say - "This creature also has attributes from the class Dragons." That way we wouldn't have to add undead dragons to the Dragons page but still show that the Undead Dragon is related to Dragons. '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

Freezgoiz and Yeti's. Where the hell do i list them? Do I give them their own category even though Freegoiz is yet to be verified to exist. Do I make yeti's bosses, even though they spawn in-packs (though irregularly). What should be done? '''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

Sorry about the delay in replying to this. There has been a pretty heated debate about the nature of Yetis. I would have directed you to choose whatever seemed most reasonable to you, and then we can debate about it later. Maybe the update will reveal some more information that will make it more clear.

--'' <span title="(latin) Make haste slowly.">Festina lente. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:46, 18 June 2007 (PDT)

My New Bots
I have finished coding two bots to maintain certain pages of this wiki. Details about their operation can be found at User:TavinBot_TypeLists and User:TavinBot_CreatureLists.

They are not yet active. I will do some manual testing on each of them for the next few days, then I will "turn them on" as a preliminary release and monitor their actions closely for a few days.

If all goes well, then I plan to have them in fully-automated operation by some time next week.

This "trial period" is also to allow wiki users to offer feedback about the bots (philosophically, critically, supportive, whatever) before they are fully implemented.

I believe that these bots will assist in maintaining the accuracy and completeness of this wiki, and will relieve some of the burden of maintenance from the normal wiki users and admins.

Now that I have the framework in place, it will greatly simplify the creation of bots in the future as the need arises, but I take this action very seriously. Since the integrity of this wiki is at stake, the amount of work that a bot is allowed to do will be very limited. Automated processes are not a replacement for human intellect, but it can be a valuable tool when used properly and responsibly.

I welcome any comments, suggestions and feedback.

--'' <span title="(latin) Bad kitty!">Feles mala! '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 08:43, 15 June 2007 (PDT)


 * It says your new bots are inactive - is that a good sign or does it mean your computer is off? Also the Creature Lists bot seems to have (by its contributions0 not done it's job too well... It orders the creatures alphabetically under the exp titles and some monsters like the thul are in the wrong place. '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

Yes, they are pseudo-inactive. I have them coded, and I'm testing them right now. They are not allowed to run on their own yet, until they are properly tested and verified to be working correctly.

About the list being out of order... I don't see where it has made a mistake. The only list it has updated so far is List of Creatures by Hit Points, and all of the creatures are listed in order of the number of hit points they have. In cases where their hitpoints are the same, they are ordered by name alphabetically. So far it is working as intended... does it need to change?

--'' <span title="(latin) Hey! Did you nail my sandals to the floor?">Salve! Crepidas meas per clavos ad solum adfixinte? '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 12:18, 15 June 2007 (PDT)
 * My bad, I was looking at exp, sorry about that. Also i've left some pages for the bot to update just to test if you wanted. Unfortunately I can't exactly remember which lists it has to update. I recently completely went through all the creatures and made sure they were all updated correctly - but I didn't update the lists :)
 * Tavinbot has deleted the contents of Template:Axe Weapons List, what happened? '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

That's exactly why I'm doing this testing :)

That was actually a problem with one of my regular expressions. It's fixed now, and thanks for keeping an eye on this stuff!

--'' <span title="(latin) In every sense, a man of Minerva.">Omnis Minervae homo Petronius. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 13:23, 15 June 2007 (PDT)
 * School holidays, nothing better to do. I thought I'd be irritating you by now... may I ask - where did you learn all this programming and coding? Everyting I know comes from plagerising other people's tables and alike and just playing about in sandboxes. Did you take courses or alike? '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

Most of it was self-taught in grade-school and high-school, but I do have a Computer Science degree from a university.

I guess the best way to learn is to have a project, and easy access to reference materials... and then do that project once... then throw it away and do it again from scratch. You will learn more about the technology, and how you should have done it the first time through... the second time through it should actually be usable. Once you really know what you're doing, you will find that writing down a good design is the most important step, before you even start coding.

Without receiving some instruction from somewhere, that's probably the easiest way to learn (for me anyways).

Well... now that I have given you a vague and dull answer... if you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them.

--'' <span title="(italian) How unfaithful are Italian men, really?">Quanto sono infedeli, in realta, gli uomini italiani? '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 13:50, 15 June 2007 (PDT)
 * Vague and dull works just fine by me thank you.
 * Could you code your Creature list bot to also update the Dragons, Rings and other lists like that in reference to categories and what's on a creature's page?
 * Could you also update the Template:Infobox Creature to include arena bosses and make the parameter | isarenaboss = yes/no. It would just go where the current boss information goes only it would be specific to arena bosses.
 * Could you also make it so if a creature is a boss it adds Category:Bosses to the page please.

'''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

Let me think about making a bot to update those kinds of lists. Creatures would probably be fine, but I think we would have to change some things about the items template to make that work correctly.... I'll look into it.

I have added the category "Bosses" to the template (when the "isboss" flag is true), but are we sure that the "arena bosses" are actually bosses? Would they be better listed as something else?

-- <span title="(latin) Hold my calls">Fac ut nemo me vocet  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:53, 18 June 2007 (PDT)
 * I'm certain. They have names different to that of their image counter-parts even though they share the same traits. However, unlike bosses they spawn regularly so i don't think it's best to categorize them as bosses either. I believe we do need a | isarenaboss paramter. If you compare the traits of regular creatures bosses and arena bosses you'd see how different arena bosses vary from both. I think it's best to get them their own paramter and not give them a list on the right-hand side.

Makes sense to me. I have added it to the template.

-- <span title="(latin) Farewell Caesar, they who are about to die salute you.">ave, Caesar, morituri te salutant  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:15, 18 June 2007 (PDT)

Block User

 * [[Image:Warning Icon Yellow.png|25px|left]] The user Boneth ( talk &bull; contribs &bull; [/&bot=1 bot contribs] &bull; [ block log] &bull; block ) has vandalized . Please review their edits and take appropriate actions if necessary.

hes been on a rampage, creating fake pages and editing user pages Sincerely, User:Disaster monteiro

Erig has already blocked him. Art~

Yeah, I was away for the weekend, so I missed it. Thanks for taking care of that, Erig, and thanks for the report Art.

--'' <span title="(latin) Carthage must be destroyed">Delenda est Carthago. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:09, 18 June 2007 (PDT)

List Headers

 * TavinBot TypeLists has added Documents and Papers to the top of Template:Documents and Papers List - it's only meant to do this with creatures and didn't do it to Template:Club Weapons List, is it a bug? '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

Not a bug, but a configuration error. Some lists should have the headings, some should not have any headings, some should only skip the first heading but leave all others...I already noticed it and updated the configuration and flagged that list for update again... it will be fixed when it reaches that list in its update queue.

If you notice any more like that, please let me know!

--'' <span title="(italian) Those shoes are really beautiful.">Quelle scarpe sono veramente stupende. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 07:22, 18 June 2007 (PDT)

Uploaded Images
Hey ya Whitelaces. I'm having some trouble figuring out how to upload images correctly. Is there anywhere I can go that will explain it? Or would you happen to have any pointers? Anyways, could you delete this page ? Thanks for the help! ~ Uno time

A great free program that is easy to learn is called Paint.NET (http://www.getpaint.net/). It allows transparency and changing the color pallet, etc.

Be sure to save your item images in GIF format, and crop them to an appropriate size. Multiples of 16px or 32px are preferred, and should match the actual graphic size in-game with the "no stretch" option turned on.

-- <span title="(latin) Stupid is as stupid does">Stultus est sicut stultus facit  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:40, 18 June 2007 (PDT)