Talk:Loot Statistics

Inclusion
I want to include all creatures of Category:Loot Statistics automaticly, but does not work. Is there a way to do this? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 17:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Uh ... because Template:Loot Statistics doesn't exist...? I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

But you'll most likely need DPL to include the list, unless you plan to manually update it. -- Sixorish 18:01, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't explain this very good, this is what I want: if page is in category:loot statistics then link it on this page. I know this can be done with DPL, I just wondered if it can be done without. I made a typo in my first post, I meant of course. I thought using the curly brackets did include the contents of a page, like used with TibiaWiki:About on the main page. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 18:06, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It can't, because the category's contents is virtual and isn't actually on the page. In any case, there are user pages on this list, so even if it could we would want to filter those ones out. -- Sixorish 18:10, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

However, given that the strain on the server DPL causes is significantly less when it's just a link (thereby not transcluding any page at all), the DPL is fine here. -- Sixorish 18:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. It filters out userpages by default? (I thought you would add notcategory or something). ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 18:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Check the source: -- Sixorish 18:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, that is clarifying. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 04:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Rich Text Editor
I always wondered why people added numbers to the template while this is not needed (e.g. [ this] revision). I think it's the fault of the rich text editor, which I tested 1 minute ago for the first time and I don't really like it. It's obviously made to ease the life of editors which are not experienced with codes, but I think it makes things only more difficult. Look at this image as an example, is it easy to see what you're doing?



^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 15:49, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

TibiaMl
They made some stats too here. Can be usefull to compare if you're not sure about an edit. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 13:43, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Version
I'm adding the version parameter, removing notes like Update 8.5 and doing a general review on all loot statistics pages listed on this page. I'm at the S now, but it takes a lot of time so any help is welcome. If you're not sure what version to add, look in the history and compare with Updates dates.

Edit: I'm done, thanks everybody who helped. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 21:48, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

What about dates where people added stuff from videos? -- Sixorish 23:20, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, will we need to add the template to pages which don't have 8.54 statistics to utilize the JavaScript feature? I'm assuming the script automatically edits pages based on input - I haven't tried it, doesn't seem to work for some reason (perhaps skin compatibility or some such) -- Sixorish 02:21, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't quite work in firefox yet, due to a bug, I suggest trying Google Chrome or something. It works like this: if there are no stats with version=8.54 on the page, it will add a new template, if there are stats found with version=8.54 then it combines them. So stats with older versions, are not necessary to edit to make the parser work, but I still want them to be edited, for a universal way to show the version (let the template do it). ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 08:19, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wrong Data?
I didn't know where else to look, but I'm getting a Wrong data in Old Statistics(1) error so I'm not able to update any of the loot easily. I didn't know where else to look, but is anyone else getting this problem? Thanks!. Leo Kinoske 10:33, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Is this to do with the version number? I guess if you're trying to upload old stats with the new log analyser it will assume you are trying to upload them for the current client and not an older one. If that is the case you need to use the loot merger to get the stats with the correct version as well as using the log analyser to get the template (and just removing the version number 8.54), otherwise it will join old stats (yours) with stats from the current game. beejay 10:41, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

It might be the other computer I use. This one worked just fine on the first tries. Leo Kinoske 16:32, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Number of kills
is it possible to add number of monsters next to monster name? I mean the monsters listed at the end of the page.

now:

Barbarian Bloodwalker/Loot Statistics

desirable:

Barbarian Bloodwalker/Loot Statistics - 34 kills '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''
 * I tried - just due to having prior loot stats resulting in multiple templates I can't simple dpl the kills in.

17:30, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

DPL concerns - not completing the list
It appears that there's a limit to the amount of items included by DPL. Warlock/Loot Statistics for example, is missing (in fact, anything beyond Ushuriel is). -- Sixorish 14:04, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

That's too bad... Wel'll have to think of a work-around then. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 16:51, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

'''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''
 * Do we need the red links? If no then we can use, User:Craggles/loot.

20:27, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

And when the red links become blue? It doesn't resolve anything, just causes problems in the long-term. -- Sixorish 10:28, March 4, 2010 (UTC) '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''
 * I agree it's only a quick fix but we'll still be using dpl in the future, so if we ever fix our current problem it'll fix our future problem too.

16:35, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

I think it is fixed now, the same can be done with User:Craggles/loot too when we have more creatures with loots, I believe default DPL limit is 500 --Daniel Letalis 07:19, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

add all kills with 1 button
is it possible to add all kills taken from server log with only 1 click? Without clicking each button for each monster?

Jura 09:07, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

although it might look easier, I don't think that's a good idea. I usually don't upload the monster stats of which I have very few kills. Why would I want to add the kill of one rat for example? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 09:24, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Some monsters live in separated groups - one of reasons.

1 kill from you, 1 from another person - and we have already 2 kills.

If you upload 5 kills of rats, 3 kills of spiders, 2 kills of poison spiders, 5 kills of bugs,1 kill of carniphila, 2 kills of wasp - in real you added 18 kills, what is kinda significant amount.

Jura 15:17, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, all monster kills should be added to the system. I'm in complete agreement with Jura.

TheKillerNacho 15:51, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

It would save time which would be useful but personally I can live with a few extra clicks if the effort to make it possible is too much. Although, it would be handy for people who run around areas like POI where you can find many different creatures and for those who like to save up a few stats before submitting them on here. beejay 16:57, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * How does the loot parser handle pages like Thief (Creature) ?
 * It doesn't, I can update so it has a list of exceptions that redirect each special name creature to the correct page, I will do that in some days.--Daniel Letalis 02:33, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

About adding all kills with 1 button, it isn't too complicated to implement but I'm not sure if it should be added because it would be many pages edits with 1 click, dunno, doesn't seem right to me.

--Daniel Letalis 02:33, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * new loot namespace would solve the problem of many pages edits by simply hiding them. Maybe just add a possibility to add with one click and leave the old system "alive" too? Jura 20:26, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

It's not too complicated to click a few buttons to upload a few things, is it?

Everything you kill should be uploaded to get accurate loots! derp Leo Kinoske 18:59, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

I'm making tests with the parser for uploading with 1 click, It works perfect but I don't like it's display, you can test/upload anything there(is just for testing and data uploaded there won't be added to tibia.wikia stats), leave comments on the discussion page there, thanks.

http://dantest.wikia.com/wiki/Loot_Statistics

--Daniel Letalis 00:21, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Problem with loot statistic data
How can I hide changes of Loot Statistic in "Recent Changes" and in "My Home"? Jura 17:46, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you can in Home, but in Recent Changes there is a link just under "find users" named Hide Loot Statistics, or you can go: namespace, loot statistics and click exclude. beejay 17:51, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Should the link be more outstanding, so people can easier see it? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 19:04, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

About summons
Anyone has ideas of how to filter summons from loot statistics?

--Daniel Letalis 15:34, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Usually summon kills are grouped with a leader shortly after they die; you could create an exception list for which your script analyzes their placement (if they're empty) to find a nearby leader? It would give a smaller error than keeping those kills in, anyway. -- Sixorish 20:43, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Ask CIP if they mark summons with some word/symbol in the server log? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 20:52, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

What good would asking CIP do? If there is a difference, we can't see it and we can't copy it to clipboard. It really won't do us any good. -- Sixorish 02:50, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe someone can make a proposal about not letting the summons appear in the server log. Or maybe that since summons are always empty they could change it so that you can't open the dead bodies of summons. That would make them similar to snakes or fire elementals.

Nevaran 12:08, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

I would like Neveran's idea but cipsoft doesn't change this kind of stuff even when many people ask for it in many proposal threads and is easy to do (like making loot in the middle of screen optional)(yeah right full time tibia client developers), I guess I will have to figure out something like the filter Sixorish suggested.

--Daniel Letalis 06:07, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

If you manage, perhaps it would be wise to disregard their loot in deciding whether to mark them as a summon (i.e. mark all scarabs around an ancient scarab as summons). That way it isn't selective removal and should remove as many legitimate empty ones as it did ones with loot. Or, you could create an exception list (another, ew!) exploiting the fact some of the summons are never / almost never empty.

I wonder though: what do we do with Orc? He is one of the few which CIP have placed noticeable differences in loot drops (Sam's backpack). It's things like this which make me believe CIP have a lot larger creature database than we have (i.e. many creature duplicates with alternative odds) which would throw off our statistics. -- Sixorish 07:44, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yes exception lists make process slower but I believe not using one for this wouldn't be a good idea. I'll keep thinking on how to do this because even with complete lists there could be some problems like for example 1x phantasm that runs in red and is never killed but some summons are killed on that log.

About loot, I believe cip calculates a chance of drop depending on several things that may include:
 * Base rareness of the item
 * Time passed since last "loot reset" on that area
 * "Real" value (calculated by cip) of the item on that world
 * Area like: premmium/free/sam's bp(orc fortress)/others
 * Number of that specific creature killed since server save
 * Number of persons on the area

I'm sure there are more factors that they consider but these come to my mind now. Loot statistics become more accurate when more kills are added because kills from most areas and most timezones are included, but only cipsoft can really predict loot because they know what factors they use to calculate it.

--Daniel Letalis 05:00, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

I emailed Rejana, asking to forward it to a client programmer of CipSoft. I have hope this will work :) ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 09:51, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Awh, it was a fool's hope, she basically said I should post it on the proposal board. Maybe ask some Cip member in-game, who can fix it within 5 minutes next test server :P (or do a proposal on the proposal board which takes 2 years to get implemented). ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 17:10, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

You didn't think that was going to work did you? We're mere fansite representatives, we have no real connection with CIP let alone influence over them. We have to go through the same process as everyone else even if it means waiting 3 years. I don't doubt you'll get the same response if you proposed it on TS. And mind you, CIP have, I believe, less than 5 people working on the game from a technical point. That's why Tibia is progressing slowly and is substandard compared against modern video games. They underestimate what is necessary to build and maintain a MMORPG; that is why they won't accept it even considering how small a change this is. They simply don't have the time. -- Sixorish 03:19, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Actually.. I did kind of think that, feels very foolish now. They are hiring more people though, maybe in a few years... ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 12:27, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Loot/Loot Statistics on Creature Page
I posted this on the Infobox Creature template talk page, but I guess it's relevant here, too. I think it would be more beneficial and interesting for users if the 'loot' link on this template (the one right before all loot is listed) linked to the loot statistics page for the creature instead of the general page for loot. As it stands, there is no link from a creature's page to its loot statistics page and this change would sort of make sense and give viewers an estimated rarity of loot.Kharzad Ironfist 17:34, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * As it stands, there is no link from a creature's page to its loot statistics page

Isn't there? I'm not sure what you mean if there isn't. Check the parenthesis at the end of their loot listing. -- Sixorish 19:07, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, so there is. Kharzad Ironfist 00:05, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Would you prefer the link to be to the left under the link to loot? It's there to be noticed, and if you missed it then it's clearly not doing a good job there. -- Sixorish 00:33, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

No, that's probably not necessary. I feel pretty oblivious for missing it, now, but I haven't noticed the link since whenever it was added. I think it's fine and less obtrusive (though that might've been my problem) at the end of the loot list. Kharzad Ironfist 15:11, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Monsters without loot
How to create a page for monsters with no loot? Like all bosses in Svargrond Arena and so? Or any another way to deal with such monsters and their loot pages?

Why would you want to make a loot statistics page for a monster with no loot? Those pages don't have to exist, I think.. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 14:55, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

You shouldn't worry about red links to their respective articles, it's just fine as it is :) Cykotitan 15:01, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Not able to add stats
14:51 Loot of Ferumbras: 2 GOLD INGOTS, 16 GOLD COINS, 74 GOLD COINS, A MAGIC PLATE ARMOR, A SPELLBOOK OF LOST SOULS, 45 SMALL DIAMONDS, GLACIER KILT, A RUNED SWORD, A BLOODY EDGE, A DEMON SHIELD, FERUMBRAS' HAT

wasn't able to edit the loot stats page, not sure how...Perwik 20:20, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I copy and pasted the text and it worked for me (has loaded to the loot stats page), it just took a bit longer than normal. Is the loading time what you had a problem with? beejay 21:05, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't sure how to integrate my results with the old stats on the page.Perwik 07:15, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

There currently is no way to do this as simply as adding to the current version. I guess there are a few ways on how to do this although I have only done the manual way.
 * You could go to Loot Statistics:Ferumbras and add the loot into the right client version manually, yourself.
 * Before pressing upload on the loot statistics page you could change the version number to the correct version number.
 * Or you could use the loot statistics upload form, then copy it into the loot merger (right side) and cut/paste the statistics from Loot Statistics:Ferumbras into the left side and merge. Then you would need to copy this into Loot Statistics:Ferumbras page, similar to doing it manually.

So were the loot statistics you wanted uploading from update/8.5? Also, the loot statistics uploader doesn't recognise words in capitals as the same words not in capitals, as I found out while uploading those stats. beejay 10:09, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Besides technical point of view, should this statistics be added? If they came from a person yelling I think not.

--Daniel Letalis 02:57, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Keep original statistics data
Parser part can be done, but for other things I was wondering if this would be a good idea:

The user process his server log as he does now but there would be a small extra wait while the loot data is uploaded to a special page.

Imagine the user uploads this log: You see a backpack (Vol:20). It weighs 52.00 oz. Bought 100x mana potion for 5100 gold. Loot of a cobra: nothing Xxx has logged in. Loot of a crocodile: ham, meat You see Fulanito de Tal (Level 50). He is a sorcerer.

To keep privacy as it is now, the data would be filtered and uploaded to the new special page like this: v:8.54 a cobra:nothing a crocodile:ham,meat

I'm aware that this extra process may consume some extra seconds depending on server log size but considering current/proposed loot statistics formats may be incomplete and can become obsolete one day, having all this data would give us enough information to recreate the statistics in any format we want/need at anytime.

I know that the new special page can become really large but it can be backed up and emptied now and then by someone in charge of it and because of the history system that wikia has, old info would be accessible to everyone.

--Daniel Letalis 08:28, April 15, 2010 (UTC) ---==Update== So how do we make the parser update the 8.57 loot stats? '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''

I hope that's not necessary, that would mean we would have start from 0 with all creatures and I think nothing was changed in the loot with update 8.55, 8.56 and 8.57. I could ask Rejana if she can confirm this though.. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 05:18, May 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * We'd best sort it out quickly then people have begun adding thier stats for the new update. Poison Spiders and the Rotworm loot stats to name a couple. '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile

'''

I asked Rejana today and she just replied the content team says, there were no changes in creatures' loot. We can still use update 8.54 with no problem. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 13:45, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

So how do we stop people adding loot to 8.75? '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''

Sorry for the late response, check: w:c:dantest:Loot_Statistics

1. The select box near "Process" button would help people understand tibia loot version still is the same as 8.54

2. the text boxes are read only

This version adds the option to upload all with a single click.

So admins can easily edit the text for current tibia version I made a new variable, as you can see on the 1st 3 lines of w:c:dantest:Loot_Statistics/Lootparserloot

Because upload all with a single click could be problematic and hasn't been discussed enough, let me know if I should make a version that has the new features except the "upload all"

--Daniel Letalis 18:25, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think we can prevent people from uploading logs with the updated version as it can easily be done manually.

About uploading all at once. People can easily forget that they have killed creatures that summon, so perhaps the upload all wouldn't be such a good feature. Although I do see a few people who like to save a log or two and upload later, because I do the same, I would lean towards the upload button. But that's just me.. Beejay 01:09, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Then a note like the tibianews map note would be more important than update the parser, so as soon as I have time I will update the test parser, remove the readonly thing, remove the upload all button and make the summary tell the version the user added so we can track faster and fix 8.57 additions.

--Daniel Letalis 02:22, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

I updated the parser, so test it(w:c:dantest:Loot_Statistics) and update it if needed: w:c:dantest:Loot_Statistics/Lootparserloot

It has some plural words improvements and allows users to select tibia version, plus the uploaded statistics with incorrect version should be easier to track.

--Daniel Letalis 06:47, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I'm being stupid but where is this multi upload on off variable? '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile

'''


 * There isn't a variable for this, I was tempted to leave all and hide the multiupload things but with any new browser any user would be able to unhide/enable mutiupload so I removed all the multiupload code. --Daniel Letalis 15:47, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

case sensitive monster names
Loot_Statistics:Chizzoron_the_Distorter is not the same as Loot_Statistics:Chizzoron_The_Distorter Which one is correct? Probably parser should be fixed, so if "The" is incorrect, what words don't have to be uppercase besides "the" in monster names?

--Daniel Letalis 21:44, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

I read tibia.wikia standards page and I made a fix to the parser for this issue, function ucwords needs a small update, so if any admin can do it, would be nice Loot Statistics/Lootparserloot (around line 40). function ucwords(str) { str = (str+'').replace(/^(.)|\s(.)|-(.)/g, function ($1) { return $1.toUpperCase; }); return str.replace(' Of The ', ' of the ').replace(' Of A ', ' of a ').replace(' Of An ', ' of an ').replace(' Of ', ' of ').replace(' The ', ' the '); } --Daniel Letalis 23:00, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

I have added the "replace(' The ', ' the ');" I hope that's right. :) Beejay 23:57, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

New client version 8.61
Anyone knows are there any changes in loot in new client version? Zantax 07:45, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

I hope that if anyone will find something he will say it here. Btw - now there's 8.62. Zippoxer 21:20, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Interpretation
There should be a section on this page on how to interpret the statistics. As we know, some food stacks do not appear in loot messages. Unfortunately, the only way around this is infeasible, and there's nothing for CIP to fix: meat is an uncountable noun. It gives inaccurate numbers for such pages as Loot Statistics:Deer, which would have 200% or more for meat drops. Where this note goes is a dilemma itself though: the page is so large that it may go unnoticed completely if it's not above the input form. Perhaps in the lead? -- Sixorish 00:16, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

If only the loot statistics for meat will not be exact, so we can live with it. Zippoxer 21:30, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

It isn't just of food. Any uncountable noun will have this mistake. It's just more prevalent in food. It's not that it makes some huge impact, but rather that audience should note that such items cannot be accounted for in the statistics. -- Sixorish 18:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I don't remember well but I think we decided those % to be like that because the logic that there can't be a chance on % higher than 100 and because the new template was made having in mind that it could fit non countable items better. The %s are repetitions of that item / total kills, that is the real chance you have to get some item no matter if u get 1 or 10 in same monster. --Daniel Letalis 08:17, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Statistics really works =]
I've just killed 50 rats and got 87gp and the statistics says I will get 86gp :P

There are 1000 kills added to statistics for rats in 8.6, but 1000 kills isn't enough for monsters who drop over 5 different items.Zippoxer 22:26, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Updates/8.7
Do we need to start new stats for this update? If yes, we need to change it quick.. Besides the new creatures, I don't remember if Cip talked about different drop rates, maybe somebody can find out? Also (more to Daniel) a new event creature has a comma in its loot something like Loot of a Cake thing: a sweet, sugary substance. You might need to add an exception if people start uploading stats with the loot of this monster in it, but it's not high priority since this world quest/event didn't start yet as far as I know. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 07:46, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yup, parser needs to be changed so we can upload loot for 8.7-- Mitus 10:50, December 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think we do, I can't imagine cip would tweak the drop rates  Craggles  ಠ_ಠ  Talk ∙ Contribs

I don't think loot version should be changed if the only change is mount creature products, seems better to me to just adjust the rates of the new products on old statistics than start all from 0.

The item with comma in name shouldn't be a problem, I'll update parser soon. --Daniel Letalis 18:08, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Quote: Bennie: Can you please tell me if the drop rates for already existing monsters were changed? Rejana: I asked the content team about that, and the answer is "nope" :o)

So it can be changed back to 8.6 and maybe a note should be added with the reason. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:15, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Ok! :) Thought I would change it because I wasn't initially sure. Beejay 17:27, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

I changed version back to 8.6, so, about taming items, I think that in some weeks or when there are enough statistics with taming items on them, it would be good to just adjust the rates, making average for the total kills using the statistics uploaded since update for reference. --Daniel Letalis 18:38, December 10, 2010 (UTC)