Template talk:Infobox Creature

I added a border to it, if it looks ugly or makes something to fail, comment it here and revert it. --Lord de los Druidas 00:31, 9 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Sounds
It's great you guys are adding the sounds monsters make, and I'm sure a fancy "Monster Sounds" page will be made, but would it also be possible to put up whether or not a monsters' sounds can be heard over a large distance? Some monsters sort of "yell" their sounds, whilst others don't, and it would be nice to see which do and do not. --Erig 00:31, 7 March 2006 (CST)

That's a cool idea... I hadn't thought of that. Does anybody know...when a creature "yells" a sound, does that creature "yell" ALL of their sounds? Or does it only yell some of their sounds? If they always yell all of their sounds, then this can easily be added to the template. Otherwise, it will need to be marked somehow next to the sound.

07:25, 7 March 2006 (CST)

Creatures can yell sounds but than the sound is in capitals, if they don't yell it can be either upper or lowercase letters. (And example is the Mino Mage

Raids
I got an other question, can't we add in the template of a creature if he active in a raid? You got a list of sounds,abilities etc. and if it's in a raid would perfectly fit in that list i think.

User:Bennie 18:33, 2 September 2006 (CST)

How would it look any different from the current templates?

I assume that you mean to make a different list template for the Raids page, but I do not see why this is necessary, since there is no special information to be displayed there. I think that the current templates are very adequate.

Can you maybe explain how you think it should look different?

-- Whitelaces &dagger; Talk &dagger; &chi;&rho;&iota;&sigma;to&sigmaf; &alpha;n&epsilon;&sigma;t&eta;, &alpha;&lambda;&eta;&theta;&omega;&sigmaf; &alpha;n&epsilon;&sigma;t&eta; -- 07:26, 5 September 2006 (PDT)

I mean, now you see e.g. by a rat this list of specifications: -Abilities, Max. damage, immunities, sounds, behavior, field notes, location, strategy and loot. What I want to change is this: among that list of specification of a creature there must come the item e.g.: raid: Yes, thais orc raid./No. So when people looking at a creature see if it's active in a raid or not.

I hope you can catch the idea, i don't know if you need to change something in the template for this. User:Bennie 20:53, 5 September 2006 (CEST)

Reterget
I suggest adding field in template which would indicate whether certain creature retargets or not. Or even to set range of values like: never, sometimes, often. I noticed some creatures have this written in strategy field, but I think it would be good to add separate field for that sicne this knowledge if often crucial.

--Kind regards, Ethnar 06:36, 29 September 2006 (PDT)

Loot
I suggest Loot is changed for Loot in the template, so players can click on it and see what Loot is.

21:22, 23 January 2007 (PST)

You mean to change the text "Loot" on the left into a link to the Loot page?

If there are no objections, I guess I don't have any arguments. I'll go ahead and change it, but if anyone comes up with a good reason to change it back, post here.

--'' Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:10, 24 January 2007 (PST)

Creature background
Personally i'd like to be able to read the background story of the creatures too. The information posted in the tibia.com library. Just to have 1 page that holds all information. Both statistics and story.

That's a good idea.... but we cannot just copy the text from tibia.com.... it has to be all original.

TibiaCity has this kind of stuff on their creature pages, but I think it would be difficult to make sure it is accurate (since we cannot just copy the text from Tibia.com).

I think we might need some more discussion about this before we decide anything.

-- A posse ad esse  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 11:46, 8 February 2007 (PST)

Well I don't mind rewriting the tibia.com story's. Don't expect me to do them all in a week tho :p. Or we just ask Erig to ask cip with puppy eyes, to get permission :p.

Is it necessary to make a separate line for creature background or can it just go in the notes section? Some creatures like a rabbit would have little background but a demon has much more to be said about. I have no problem writing out a history for the creatures, there just might need to be some extra watch for people writing ridiculous things about some creatures. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 18:36, 17 April 2006 (CDT) 13:52, 8 February 2007 (PST)

For information to be accurate, you need references, if not, like DM just said, people will be writing random stuff. The solution would be posting the background along with references pointing where the information was taken from, like information from NPCs, books, tibia website maybe?. Information about some monsters are rumors, but to be stated I suppose it such rumors have to been widely known.

Well I was talking about writing the same things that were in the tibia library, but just use your own words/sentances. So it's no longer copyrighted. Don't invent stuff.

Well, I guess you could rewrite those, but, specify that the info was taken from there and mofidied to fit this page. That's just my opinion...  &Psi; Genosonic &Psi;  &Psi;  My Contributions &Psi;   &Psi;  Talk &Psi;  08:01, 11 February 2007 (PST)

Loot in bag/directly in monster
I just wonder if it's possible to add info: is lootable thingy in bag or just directly in monster. Would require to change template and add a lot of info. Any opinions?

jura, 26.09.2007

Just something to change
Please change, actually add this code Location(s): instead of this: Location:

Immunities, Weaknesses and Strengths
Since the entire element system has changed, and new elements were added, old ones were changed, etc. I decided to alter the creature template.

I removed all of the "elementimmune" parameters, and I added "immuneto", "weakagainst" and "strongagainst" parameters.

You can see an example on the Beholder page. This is certainly available for discussion. Please post your reactions and ideas/suggestions here.

-- Nullo metro compositum est.  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 12:24, 11 December 2007 (PST) --- well, i thin the elment resistance should be sorted this way Immune -> Strong -> Weak they are currently sorted. Immune, Weak, Strong ---

No problem. I can easily fix that.

--'' Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 07:38, 12 December 2007 (PST)

The current template with "free text" for the immunities does not work for the List-template. To have an easy way to generate the lists, there should be a more formal approach (like the yes/no from the former immunities).

The following would work nice on the List-template: We could then use to select different graphics. The picture "Firedamage_normal.gif" could be an empty picture (or a picture with a medium fire), the picture "Firedamage_weak.gif" a picture with a big fire, the picture "Firedamage_immune.gif" a picture with a crossed out fire, and the picture "Firedamage_strong.gif" a picture with a small fire.
 * invisibility = immune
 * firedamage = weak
 * icedamage = weak
 * holydamage = normal
 * earthdamage = strong
 * energydamage = strong

Lafajev 05:40, 17 December 2007 (PST)

That may be a good idea, but I think it will confuse people more. I have already noticed some people get confused by the words "strong against" and "weak against". I can't come up with a better way to put it, but certainly shortening it to "strong" and "weak" will be more confusing. This is the main reason that I changed "immunities" to "immuneto"... changing the parameters to all use the same voice, context and subject should make them all easier to understand.

I completely agree that we need to make the immune/strongagainst/weakagainst things easier to read. Right now they all blend in to the rest of the template. The only reason I did it this way, is because I wanted a way to build the DPL lists on the different damage pages, and I needed to do it fast before people started adding this info in all different ways. This may not be the most accessible and readable method, but at least it is standardized.

The thing I like most about your proposal is that it would allow us to define these categories in the template, which would provide for a cleaner and more reliable method of organizing the creatures dynamically.

I guess what I'm saying is... I like the idea, but I think I would like to see it in action before we change the template. Can you mock something up in the TibiaWiki:Playground for us to play with and refine? When we get it to something that we think looks good, then we can go ahead and deploy it.

When making these icons... I recommend making them 16x16 pixels. The current 10x10 pixel images would be too hard to distinguish when we start making variations (like crossed-out, etc).

-- Mirabile visu  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 10:49, 17 December 2007 (PST)

Monsters are weak and strong with different % against elements. This should be added, too. It's easy to test with area spells! --NeWsOfTzzz 12:36, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I've added a little bit to enable icons with the current format of the template.


 * 1) I've uploaded a picture for Holy Damage - because I do not edit GIF's normally, its not transparent and ugly... [[Image:Holy Damage Icon.gif]]
 * 2) * Ok, someone was faster while I was writing this, transparency was already added. :-)
 * 3) * We should probably change the icon for Earth Damage [[Image:Poisoned_Icon.gif]].
 * 4) * Maybe we should change all icons so that the names match the damage- or immunity-type.
 * 5) I've added a template to create a List of Icons: Template:Infobox Creature/Damage Icon List.
 * 6) I don't want to spoil all list pages, so I added a new List-Template for testing: Template:Infobox_Creature/List2
 * 7) I added Cyclopolis to my sandbox page, so the Templates can be seen in action: User:Lafajev/Sandbox

If this works everywhere, we could incorporate it in the normal lists (I have no idea how I check it with DPL). My sandbox loads very slow after an edit right now, so I don't know if the template is too complex or the load on the server is high right now...

Lafajev 22:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Addition of 'neutral' immunity parameter
I was thinking, maybe there should be a 'neutral' parameter so that all elements are mentioned, currently Frost Dragon is marked as weak against energy damage, when according to tibia.com's library, they aren't immune, strong or weak against energy.

''Frost Dragons have 1800 hitpoints. They are immune to fire, earth, and ice damage and cannot be paralyzed. Moreover, they are strong against physical damage. These creatures can neither be summoned nor convinced. In addition, they are able to sense invisible creatures.'' Sixorish My contributions Talk page 08:30, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that way would be harder to get wrong edits on the weakness space so... I support sixorish  Rafailo Sagara   Talk  Contriutions   22:58, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Creatures that can push objects
It'll be useful to add an attribute about if the creature can o not push objects like parcels Seth66 23:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistency in the template
The template documentation lists parameter behaviour but the template doesn't recognise it. The template uses different spelling behavior. Please make changes to use any one form of this word. I noticed that some creature pages don't display this info even though it's added in page source.

Also by the way, it would be nice to add dots to the default text for those parameters: abilities, behavio(u)r, notes, location, strategy, loot so if the info is missing they would be displayed as (for example): Abilities: Unknown. rather than: Abilities: Unknown

 John Locke  Talk   11:29, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Made some changes, now both forms of behavior should work, the parameter defaults now have periods after them, thanks for finding the error. -- Sixorish 11:36, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Immunities, Weaknesses and Strengths (2)
Continuing the discussion from User_talk:Sixorish.

You state your new parameter system is the same as the old one. Technically +20% and 120% is the same. Also, -20% and 80% are the same, but already harder to understand. But what do you mean with 99%<? or 101%>?? Also, you abbreviate Life Drain to Drain, which is also confusing. Besides, there was nothing wrong with the 3 seperate lines, it made it easier to read. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 16:17, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Maybe 120% is more complicated than +20%. But dude, look into the histories of the creatures! I just write what I remember by brain for strongagainst values (and it was written that way on the page!):

Strong Against: Ice Damage (+20%)

Strong Against: Ice Damage (-20%)

Strong Against: Ice Damage (20%)

Strong Against: Ice Damage 20%

You can see, the strong against field was with '-', with '+', without any arithmetic operator, without brackets. And that's what you call easier? (same was for weakagainst and also with different numbers for sure).

About the Damage Modifiers, I'm atm working on documentation (there is also explained what those values mean, and it's clickable on every creature page so most people should be able to find it):

Damage_Modifiers

and for editors I'll update that:

Template:Infobox_Creature/Documentation

NeWsOfTzzz 16:21, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

About "Drain", this will be changeable in the template with 1 word and then it'll be changed on all creature sites. This is just cosmetical stuff, let's delay this until tomorrow, when I'm done migrating all data.

NeWsOfTzzz 16:31, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

About those values being in 3 lines, also a cosmetical thing, may even be now automatically placed by DPL, will have to work in that. If it's possible via DPL (And I'm kinda sure it is) then I'll just have to put 1-2 lines into the monster template and afterwards it'll also be in all monsters. (But for that change maybe we should make a vote, because I think it's better all in one line but always the same order of elements. That way you don't have to search for a specific element.)

NeWsOfTzzz 16:34, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, have changed "Drain" to "Life Drain" (may take some time until creature pages are updated).

NeWsOfTzzz 16:49, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

NeWsOfTzzz, you can use "<100%" instead of "99%<?", and ">100%" instead of "101%>?". I created a poll and I'll add it to Main Page tomorrow. If the "old system" wins, NeWsOfTzzz will revert all his changes.

&lt;·&gt; Hunter of Dragoes &lt;·&gt; My Talk &lt;·&gt; My Contributions &lt;·&gt; 16:57, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, as I've said, please wait until tomorrow with a vote. People can't vote for an unfinished system (and btw, Erig said that the damage modifiers SHOULD be added DPL compatible. So we can't just remove everything).

NeWsOfTzzz 16:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok, we can wait you change all creatures pages to make that democratic vote. But we can improve the poll today.

&lt;·&gt; Hunter of Dragoes &lt;·&gt; My Talk &lt;·&gt; My Contributions &lt;·&gt; 17:13, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't knew we had poll tags. How does it work?

Edit: found it here, although the info is little. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 17:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

NeWsOfTzzz, you can use "<100%" instead of "99%<?", and ">100%" instead of "101%>?".

The problem is, we can't, otherwise DPL won't work anymore, the number must be at the beginning, nondigits may only stand at the end of the value.

PS: Where is the exact problem with it anyway? Those values should be replaced as soon as possible by people testing those values (so 99%<? may be replaced by 60% for example), so they're just temporary anyway.

NeWsOfTzzz 18:26, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Why couldn't you make a testpage in the User namespace and let people vote on that? Why do you want to edit every page, then vote? You'll have to revert everything again..

It's not clear now what is the best element to use on a certain monster.

I don't see your changes as an improvement.

Temahk 19:32, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

"It's not clear now what is the best element to use on a certain monster."

Erm just look for the highest number.. (let's say ice 50%, fire 90%, energy 120% and earth 110%, then take energy).

But if that's too complicated for you, how did you do it before?

NeWsOfTzzz 19:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I phoned my mom, so she could ask my dog to take a note to the milkman so the milkman could then put a message in a bottle and throw it in the Atlantic, so the message would be received in Japan where a fisherman would get on a boat and sail to China to make seven Chinese children in a basement process the wiki page. The Chinese children would then tell a rat to get on a truck full of fireworks on its way to Russia so the rat could bite a mans toe as many times as the percentage would be so the man knows what smoke signal to send to Poland where a wild boar would jump over the fence of its habitat to get to the post office so the clerk could then send a teletex across Germany so then finally a pidgeon could poop on my head and tell me what element I would need to use on a monster.

Temahk 19:46, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

You wouldn't believe how much this actually explains for me.

NeWsOfTzzz 19:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok, let's not fall into pointless discussion, Temahk we understand you think the new system is not very user-friendly. NeWs, we will handle this issue democratically, all will be fine. Also, please understand you might not appear very convincing and look like a new user (having a red-linked user page seen in RC). Naturally, the opinion of more experienced users and active-in-community-users are more convincing. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 20:16, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

You're maybe right that this isn't helping me in this case...

My oldest edit is from may 2006, wrote that onto my user page (so it isn't red anymore).

NeWsOfTzzz 20:28, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

@Hunter of Dragoes:

"I created a poll and I'll add it to Main Page tomorrow."

1) People don't know about the benefits, you'll have to include all of them into the vote, like "keep old system but loose ability to sort by weakness % (good to find the most effective monster to hunt), loose ability to see all monsters that are neutral to an element, loose ability to change the standardized layout of the damage modifiers, loose ability for editors to faster find untested values (which would mean less and slower process of testing damage modifiers) and loose some more technical possibilites of the new system"

"If the "old system" wins, NeWsOfTzzz will revert all his changes."

2) Well, that's not correct. As Erig said the values should be DPL compatible, so we can't revert everything. But let's wait for the

NeWsOfTzzz 20:42, 15 January 2009 (UTC)