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Revamp - Template:Infobox Item
Hi guys,

Here's my first installment of a huge restructuring of our templates:
 * User:Sixorish/Item2
 * User:Sixorish/Item2/Axe (compare: Axe)
 * User:Sixorish/Item2/Pair of Soft Boots (compare: Pair of Soft Boots)

These templates are subject to change. I'm open to any suggestions.

-- Sixorish (talk) 07:37, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

I definately like the better way of using horizontal space, but I must admit it takes some time to find each piece of info (obviously because they are placed in a different spot and I'm not used to this). Do I have to reload css, because I see almost no layout atm? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:48, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

I can't imagine why the CSS wouldn't load for you. Here's what you should see:

The key features are:
 * Short key/value pairs are displayed in a table to the right. This allows more space for the other content, like notes, to flow around it.
 * Trade tables are displayed alongside each other. I think this is very important because currently you have to check the label, whereas people will eventually get a feel for buyfrom/sellto based on its position (left or right).
 * It uses more logical structure/elements. I think this is important because search engines will treat our content differently depending on the elements we use in our pages.

With all that said, I'm not an experienced web designer. I think the structure of the page is better but I don't have a good feel for what looks good and is intuitive to use. I got feedback from my friends and adjusted it until they were tired of telling me they didn't like it. I don't know if they genuinely hated it or if they were too adapted to the current layout which we've had for years. What I do know is: the current layout is inadequate, outdated, and doesn't address our needs since we've moved to Wikia (and began using their skin). -- Sixorish (talk) 14:12, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with your friends that it could use improvement, but this already is definitely way better than what we use now. -- Wouterboy (talk) 14:26, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

I agree that it is better use of space and it will take time to get used to. If you plan to try a few different layouts then we should do a poll to see which is most useful/appealing.

Besides structure my biggest concern would be that we still have a lot of information available. Your Soft Boots example currently does not have the classes/types, transferable, implemented version date, the tables for Boots and all Items, and maybe a few others. I know these can be added in anytime but i was curious if you left them out intentionally or not. I prefer to maintain all info but they do not need to be in the same structure, necessarily.

Side note that this reminded me of: At some point i want to add a basic template or update the current one for the Update/X.XX pages and redo the main Update page with a table using said template.

--DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 21:52, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks I added transferable and classification rows in the table. I decided not to include itemclass because primarytype implies (or is meant to imply) itemclass. The template could still use it 'behind the scenes' of course. However, maybe something to think about later is a change to the classifications, because they don't always have a shared concept ("Plants, Animal Products, Food and Drink" is a valid itemclass, when its name is just a list of all constituents...)

Another thing: this change will involve templating the droppedby parameter. I think this is the best way to go because it would enforce a standard to be used within the templates. This is the best option for creating a list instead of formatted links, other methods would involve complex string functions which gets hairy and is harder to use/maintain.

Also this new layout should be easier to adapt to changes, like mobile devices and skin adjustments. I thought Wikia was enabling a fluid layout on all wikis but that doesn't seem to have happened. If it does, we'll at least be more able to adapt to it.

-- Sixorish (talk) 08:12, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

I have the feeling you're in the right way, Six. Nice job so far! I'll try to catch you online.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) - 09:03, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

With Dragoes' help I have changed some of the styles. Please check the pages again and tell me what you think. The blue background seems to have made a huge difference. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:16, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

Looks A LOT better now, I'm starting to like it. Some questions: -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 13:39, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * What do you mean with "status: active"? That it is obtainable in game and not unobtainable or deprecated or from an event?
 * bought for has two dashes, shouldn't that be converted to something else (I think we have something else in the current template), some text I mean.
 * The text in the dropped by box is considerably larger than the other text, I don't like that (it gives emphasis, which is not needed or wanted)
 * also about the dropped by, what about the loot statistics data? Will the percent values be visible later on? (I imagine this javascript is set to an id/class you don't use currently).
 * I would like a background color behind the properties table to the right. Borders and/or background colors give structure to a page. It should be easy to distinguish the different blocks of information.
 * Maybe also a little background color (rounded) to the headers. Or a border bottom.

-- Sixorish (talk) 14:49, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, status will mean just that - if it's obtainable, if it's deprecated, or if it's a TS feature (like Test Server Assistant).
 * I'll remove that.
 * Yes the JS will need to be adjusted to account for the new structure. I'll look into that when the template is finalized/agreed on.
 * I've tried a few different colors but I can't find one that fits. I think the bold property names distinguish the table from the rest of the content.
 * I'll add a gold border to the bottom of each section header. However, I don't think any color really complements gold well to use as a background color.

Some ideas we had:

For items:
 * Add the following parameters:
 * pickupable (binary parameter; so we can merge Template:Infobox Item and Template:Infobox Object);
 * walkable (binary parameter);
 * market (binary parameter);
 * axeMod, clubMod, distMod, mlMod, swordMod, shieldMod, speedMod (skill modifiers);
 * immobile (binary parameter; if yes, diplay Moveable: no);
 * walkingspeed (% of base speed; for floors);
 * height, width (1=32px);
 * blocksmissile (binary parameter);
 * blockspath (binary parameter);
 * holdsliquid (binary parameter);
 * hangable (binary parameter);
 * rotatable (binary or 2/4?);
 * floorchange (binary parameter);
 * ingameheight (height value);
 * spriteID (to detect items sharing the same sprite);
 * effect (effect name; if an item displays an effect when used ingame, this info should be on the item page);
 * readable (binary parameter);
 * rewritable (binary parameter);
 * decaytime;
 * decayedfrom (item name);
 * decaysto (item name);
 * changesto (item name; if an item changes into another when "used");
 * displaytime (binary parameter; items that display Tibian time when "used").
 * Only display npcprice, npcvalue, stackable, transferable, value and weight if pickupable = yes;
 * Only display changesto, decaytime, decayedfrom, decaysto, destructable, displaytime, floorchange, hangable, holdsliquid, ingameheight, rotatable, walkingspeed, writable and skill modifiers if corresponding values exist;
 * Only display blocksmissile, blockspath, immobile and walkable values if pickupable = no;
 * Review all existing strings on attributes field and create new parameters;
 * Currently, attributes is displayed in parentheses after item name, this should be reviewed.

For monsters:
 * Add the following parameters:
 * blood (blood type: Fire, Poison, Bones, Blood?);
 * corpse (corpse name);
 * raceNumber;
 * outfit;
 * pushCreatures (binary parameter);
 * seeInvisible (binary parameter);
 * lifeDrainImmune (binary parameter);
 * paralyzeImmune (binary parameter);
 * rewardSystem (binary parameter).

For NPCs:
 * Add the following parameters:
 * outfit (in addition to race);
 * radius.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) - 15:24, January 12, 2015 (UTC)


 * We can automatically add many of these parameters on pages that have an ID. Therefore, we should add ID parameter to the remaining items and to objects (this one might be tricky).
 * Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) - 02:32, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

--- Check out table headers which are links, like on Boat. The blue links are barely readable in contrast with the blue headers. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 03:29, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I changed the link text on the table headers. -- Sixorish (talk) 07:51, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Loot% on items and creatures should be working, but it depends on JS wgTitle (e.g. Axe vs. Sixorish/Item2/Axe) so it will not work on those pages until they go live.

Here's what will change:
 * Template:Infobox Item
 * Gains parameters:
 * article
 * plural
 * actualname
 * pickupable
 * Parameter changes:
 * droppedby must now use
 * sounds must now use
 * Template:Infobox Creature
 * Gains parameters:
 * article
 * plural
 * actualname
 * spawntype
 * Parameter changes:
 * loot must now use which should use
 * sounds must now use
 * Template:Infobox Spell
 * Gains parameters:
 * element
 * Parameter changes:
 * Template:Infobox NPC
 * Gains parameters:
 * posx
 * posy
 * posz
 * street
 * gender
 * race
 * Parameter changes:
 * sounds must now use

The pages that will be changed are: Other templates will be untouched for now. I'd like it if the item template could support objects so I have avoided them for the time being.
 * Template:Infobox Item &rarr; User:Sixorish/Item2 (Axe, Panda Teddy, Pair of Soft Boots, Magic Sulphur)
 * Template:Infobox Creature &rarr; User:Sixorish/Creature2 (Rat, Demon, Hellgorak)
 * Template:Infobox NPC &rarr; User:Sixorish/NPC2 (Sam)
 * Template:Infobox Spell &rarr; User:Sixorish/Spell2 (Find Person)

Are there any objections to this? If there are no objections I will work on a script to make all necessary changes before the templates can be used. The templates still need some edits to accommodate for transclusion but otherwise they are done.

-- Sixorish (talk) 13:15, January 16, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with the technical changes and I think the overall layout of the new templates looks good. Some minor tweaks in colors/layout are still possible, but that can be done in a later stage as well. Some remaining questions: -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 16:53, January 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * The sidebar disappeared, as well as the creatureclass or itemclass templates. Is that intended?
 * I'm a bit scared people will be mad about the change, is there anything we can do about that? Warn people a change is coming and ask for feedback? Do a poll, give the community a feeling they have a say? I don't know.

Yes there probably will be a bit of negativity, just because it's a change and nobody likes change. With that said I don't think a poll will be representative of the layout's value, because everyone will vote that they don't like it without considering the possible advantages of the change. Besides, we'd have to alter the main page for a poll because any other page will get very little attention.

But of course we should ask for the users' feedback. I'll work on TibiaWiki:Projects/2015 Layout Revamp so that we can link to it in the news and ask them to post feedback on the talk page. Other than that I don't see what we can do to get good feedback on the layout. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:56, January 17, 2015 (UTC)

Oh and the sidebar is removed because that was taking up a lot of space where we didn't want that. If we decide that pages need it, we can create a list on the bottom similar to the 'dropped by' list (3-4 columns). Personally, I almost never care for "related monsters" but maybe less experienced people might, I don't know. -- Sixorish (talk) 09:29, January 17, 2015 (UTC)

I've added to the bottom of the Creature2 template and adjusted the styles a bit. Let me know if it's acceptable or any improvements that can be made. Example: User:Sixorish/Creature2/Hellgorak. -- Sixorish (talk) 17:37, January 19, 2015 (UTC)

I will start converting creatures to the new system tomorrow if there are no objections. I'd like to get this done before February because I'll have a lot less time to work on big projects. -- Sixorish (talk) 02:58, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, go ahead. Apparently there is no feedback. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:50, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Today I used User:SixBot to convert all of the items and creatures to use. Items and creatures might look a little odd with the sound spacing until the infobox changes are applied. Tomorrow I will edit NPCs and apply the infobox changes. Then I'll work on a script to convert the loot and droppedby of creatures and items. Hopefully it will all be done before the 24th. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:42, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

I apologize. I forgot to log in my bot account before running the script so about 1/3 NPC edits were attributed to this account and they will show on the recent changes. Anyway I've edited all NPCs to convert the sounds, which means all pages should be using within their sounds parameters. What's left to do: -- Sixorish (talk) 03:46, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Replace Template:Infobox Item, Template:Infobox Creature, Template:Infobox NPC, Template:Infobox Spell.
 * Update  (creatures) and   (items)

Can you make blank edits on all affected pages (items, creatures, NPCs and spells), so they update to the new template?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) - 04:38, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Can you add the link to loot statistics back to Template:Infobox Creature?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 07:34, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think I can purge them through the API because we're using an outdated MW version, and I think SixBot is being rate limited with purging manually, or maybe the server has too much work to do. I'll have a look later, since most pages won't need purging at all by the time I'm done.

I've added the loot statistics link back to the creatures. Let me know if it looks odd to you. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:02, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, it looks good.

Can you fix ?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 08:15, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

What's wrong with it? -- Sixorish (talk) 08:18, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I was missing the message on Behavior section and didn't notice the Behavioral Properties. I have the feeling people will ignore a long list of properties. Maybe we should add some icons later?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 08:24, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I think people will eventually get accustomed to the list of properties, as long as it is organized. However, I've added the text back because I didn't mean to remove that. Also I adjusted the text that is displayed in the table when a "rough estimate" is provided instead of a value. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:40, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Looks really cool Sixorish! I created a feedback thread on tibia.com, here.

One thing I think could use a little improvement, are the weakness/strength % bars which show the percentage value. I like how they show in one glance the value because of their size, but it would be cool if they could somehow reprecent their element maybe? Or some other color tweak to show the gradient in values in colors (what you have in excel, where low values are red and high values green or something). I'm not sure what would look good. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 09:30, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for adding it back, Six. Good idea about the feedback thread, Bennie. I've thought the same about the gradient bars. Other thing we could do is to show the differences from the original/base hit. All bars would have their origins aligned, bars going to the left would be positive differences (>100%), and bars going to the left would be negative differences (<100%). However, I don't think it would fit in the template.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 09:47, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

One thing I would like point out is that the articles are missing in items' new flavourtexts. This results in lines such as "You see axe ring (axe fighting +4)." -- Wouterboy (talk) 13:27, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

@Bennie: I changed it to use +-% for the resistance bars. I'd like it if the properties table kept the absolute % (105% instead of +5%).

Regarding the colors: ''' I t h i n k a d d i n g o t h e r c o l o r s w i l l b e a n e y e s o r e. I p i c k e d b l u e b e c a u s e i t b l e n d s i n w e l l w i t h t h e b a c k g r o u n d a n d i t ' s n o t t o o e m p h a t i c, b u t i f w e h a d g r e e n f o r e a r t h a n d r e d f o r f i r e , i t w o u l d d i s t r a c t t h e u s e r f r o m t h e o t h e r c o n t e n t a n d / o r j u s t g e n e r a l l y f e e l o u t o f p l a c e .''' You can try experimenting with colors if you want but I don't think it's a good idea.

@Hunter

A "whisker box"-type of thing would be really cool but probably a lot less understood than the current graph. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:31, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

@Wouterboy

Thanks. Those pages are meant to have article/actualname/plural but the "look" template is supposed to guess when it isn't provided. I'll fix that tomorrow probably.

-- Sixorish (talk) 13:31, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Concerning item articles and actual names, did you use the list of limited items to automatically add those parameters?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 14:00, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I haven't added article/actualname/plural to any items yet. According to TibiaWiki:Data/Item/article the only item to have  is Panda Teddy. -- Sixorish (talk) 14:07, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Sixorish, why is the effect parameter not included on Spell pages? Just a mistake or an idea? Maybe colored resistance bars are not so good, but something with those icons maybe? What about this: User:Bennie/resistances? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:24, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Looks good Bennie, do you want to add it?

Also how is the background/border of the tabular data? -- Sixorish (talk) 14:29, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I added it. The border looks cool, the background color is too dark to comfortably read black text. A little lighter and then it'll be awesome. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:42, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Are you guys aware of any monster that has a life drain damage modifier different from +0% and -100%? Some creatures used to be immune to life drain even before the implementation of damage modifiers. I wonder if they have really changed it or if it's still an immune or not-immune case.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 14:55, January 21, 2015 (UTC) - NPC image on The Queen Of The Banshees (longest name I can think of) doesn't fit. #twbox-image max-width 64px can be removed to fix, but might push the title too much to the right. NPC images are kind of irregular because the names make the image dimensions non-standard. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:17, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I've removed the max-width/height from #twbox-image and added it to a.new descendents. I mostly wanted to limit the effects of missing orange image links to a 64x64px box. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:28, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Another question, see Lou Toose. If buysell is set to no, the div id=npc-trades should not be displayed, right? But here it does. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:40, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Actually it is meant to be displayed, except NPCs who don't buy/sell anything should have "--" as their buy/sell. I wanted to be very clear and say: no there isn't missing information, this NPC really doesn't buy or sell anything. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:47, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I added a very small script to common.js which will sort the creature resistances from highest to lowest when the document is loaded. Is this better? I didn't want to at first because I was afraid the random positioning would be awkward. -- Sixorish (talk) 02:29, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think the sorting is really needed, with no sorting viewers can get used to always see fire as 4th bar for example. With sorting you'll always look at the top bar and then look which element it is.

I do like the ideas proposed on tibia.com by Olixin but also Waverly, to have the resistance bars go left or right from a fixed point, denoting weak or strong. I still sometimes confuse if + or - is weak or strong, having this left or right by default would be useful. What do you think? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:59, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

I think there are a few issues with this: -- Sixorish (talk) 12:34, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think the bar being far from its label will cause readability issues.
 * In such a graph we would still need to label which side is strong and which side is weak. This is why I prefer "absolute" percentages like 105% over relative percentages like +5%. If the main reason for preferring the outward-moving graph is because it's intuitive then it will be no more intuitive than if we colored bars red/green (for 99%- and 100%+) because that's the only "intuitive" feature of the graph.
 * Strong to is bound to 100% (immune at 100% resistance) while weak to is unbound. Since we work in a limited space we would use percentages to determine where the center (0) is. I don't think it will be intuitive at all if 0 is not near the center as it would be for many stronger creatures.

Mm okay. One other thing Creature Artworks are removed from the creature infobox. I kinda liked them, can they come back? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 13:53, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Outfiter
Hey!

Could you guys change ids of 3 mounts into names in Outfiter? I have seen it has been updated, but they remain untouched. I assume it would require only: Replacing 685 with Shadow_Hart, 686 with Black_Stag and 687 with Emperor_Deer in Outfiter/Code_Template & Outfiter/Code plus renaming pages/editing first lines(just id values) here - 685, here - 686 and here - 687. --Cauli92 (talk) 15:48, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

I renamed the 3 pages but not sure if deleting and creating them fresh is necessary or not. They are not loading in the 3 browsers i tried, but that happened last time i added an outfit so we shall see when the server catches up. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 03:32, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

It seems to be working correctly now, thanks a lot! -- Cauli92 (talk) 15:41, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Updates/8.54
Can you guys check what's wrong with Updates/8.54? On Monobook, the logo is misplaced and there's that "Node-count limit exceeded" error. On Wikia skin, it doesn't even load after last edit.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 15:00, January 23, 2015 (UTC)