User talk:Whitelaces/Archive 2007/07


 * 1) NPCs: Ghostlands
 * 2) Question about your bot
 * 3) A small bug report
 * 4) Archiving featured npcs,items,monsters
 * 5) Bot Question
 * 6) NPC List with image
 * 7) hey whitelaces
 * 8) @ Main Page
 * 9) whitey, me again lol
 * 10) Item Template
 * 11) Constant Effect Bots
 * 12) Creature infobox Template
 * 13) @ ItemLists bot
 * 14) I don't understand.
 * 15) Bots
 * 16) Question on how we get Info to add to wiki
 * 17) Size of maps for quest pages
 * 18) Quest completion status project
 * 19) Database Error

NPCs: Ghostlands
Hey Whitelaces, While I was on my mission to make pictures of every NPC in Tibia I came across the 2 Carlin NPCs (actually Ghostland NPCs): A Ghostly Woman and An Apparition. First: when you go to their place you see no name, who came up with those names? Second, since you can't talk to them or something else, are they really NPCs? I don't think so. Maybe we should move them to something else. Please let me know what you think.

 Wie niet slim is moet slim zijn  ^^  &ordm; Bennie &ordm;  &curren; Talk &curren; ^^ 01:08, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

Yes, I know about these npcs.... they disappear if you get too close... that's because they are actually two levels above you. If you stand back and SHIFT+Click ("look") at them... it will tell you "You see an apparition" or "You see a ghostly woman". Because of how slow they walk, I would assume that they are NPCs and not creatures, but there is no way to reach them or talk to them.

Sorta like the mirage in the desert west of Darashia. It is actually two levels above you, so it disappears when you get too close (technically standing under it).

-- Quisque comoedus est  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:41, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

Question about your bot
After you did your bot to edit many templates, our life became much easier. But I must ask you, if he ever edit weapon lists. I've browsed some, and they seems to be very out of date due to the many new weapons after 8.0. If your bot don't edit then, let me know and I'll edit then manually until you make some bot for that maybe.

--  &dagger; Pudd Knight &dagger;  Talk  Contribs  -- 19:52, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

First of all, thanks for the compliment. I hope that those bots are helpful.

Second, no, they do not maintain the items lists ... yet. I am still waiting for things to settle down a little bit, but then I will have it update the items lists, too. The reason I'm waiting is because the items template needs to be changed before I turn that bot on.

If you ever want to know if a certain list is updated by my bots, just look at the article source... my bots always add a comment that says the list is updated by a bot.

If any of this is unclear, don't hesitate to ask more specific questions. I'll do what I can to help.

-- A posse ad esse  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 23:04, 6 July 2007 (PDT)

A small bug report
Hey Whitelaces, after you'd edited that template of yours to include the historicla information about a determined item, it has come to my attention that the template itself is not changed in the items template. Recently I have taken your suggesiton and started adding historical information about the items, and when I had added the first page, for the Stone Skin Amulet page. In here but the Stone Skin Amulet page did not change. It should say that "This item has history." similar to the rest of the items, right? -- Maverick the hunter 14:39, 8 July 2007 (PDT)
 * Be patient - correct me if I'm wrong but with all these calls to erig's server things cant be changed instantly like we'd want. I ntoiced when i updated alot of categories at once some pages show the category link to be red meaning editable and others blue. Currently sca does say it has a history, so jsut be patient and let the server do as it will. '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

Ah. Forgive me, I had forgotten about the job queue issue. Thank you Craggles! -- Maverick the hunter 15:56, 8 July 2007 (PDT) - Another thing in that topic, Whitelaces, I am wondering if you can change the creatures history thing to "Additional information" or anything else, because I want to add facts about the creature in question but they have nothing to do with their origin. Or maybe just keep it at that. :P -- Maverick the hunter 20:31, 8 July 2007 (PDT)

i dont feel that its needed, other info can be added to notes or history (wich ever fits best) &iquest;  Dis&Aring;st&eacute;r M&oacute;nt&ecirc;iro &#164;  T&atilde;lk &#164; &iquest; 22:54, 8 July 2007 (PDT)

Yea Maverick, I agree with Disaster Monteiro, you should use Notes for additional information, just write stuff in an organized away there, separatemain ideas with paragraphs and stuff and everything will be alright.-- 23:02, 8 July 2007 (PDT)

I think he gets the point.

Anything that still exists in the game (including the "story" behind an item, or some legends about it) should be on the actual item/creature page. Anything that has changed about the item/creature (was made stronger in some update, was removed from the game, etc.) should be on the history page, since it is no longer relevant to the game.

-- A posse ad esse  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 11:09, 9 July 2007 (PDT)

Archiving featured npcs,items,monsters
i think it would be a good idea to archive them by year as the list is getting pretty long now and its going to stop :o

I posted a message on Talk:Main page. Depending on the outcome, we can make a decision.

-- Fac ut nemo me vocet  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 11:05, 9 July 2007 (PDT)

Bot Question
How does wiki bot creature list know to list quara scout monsters seperately under Header:Quara scout (I'm referring to the Quara page). With like bosses and such the bot can loot at the monster's page and it clearly says that the creature is boss event specific or arena boss - but with quara scouts it doesn't say anywhere other than in their names. '''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

The only reason it knows about the "Scouts" is because I told it. I wrote the bots to accept "exceptions to the rules" if necessary.

This slightly increases the maintenance cost of the bots, but I thought that it was worth it, instead of forcing everything to fit into some basic pre-defined model.

If there are other "exceptions" to the way that the bots work now, please let me know so I can configure them properly.

-- Tibi gratias agimus quod nihil fumas  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 10:55, 9 July 2007 (PDT)

NPC List with image
Hi Whitelaces, I thought about making the NPC list with images of the NPCs. I tested this here. To do this we of course need images of all NPCs, that's a thing I already am working on. Shame I have no pacc so I can't do the premium NPCs. But I'm sure there are other Wiki-contributors who want to make some images. Another problem occures when the name of the NPCs it too wide. Can you take a look at it?

 Wie niet slim is moet slim zijn  ^^  &ordm; Bennie &ordm;  &curren; Talk &curren; ^^ 01:51, 10 July 2007 (PDT)

Another necessary thing, is for all of the NPC images to be named in a standard and consistent manner (image name always matches the NPC name, for example).

To overcome the issue of the wide NPC name/image, you need to make that column the width of the largest NPC image, and then center all images in that column.... most of the images will be surrounded by whitespace, but the column will be the same width for all npcs.

You can see this in Template:Infobox_Creature/List. The image column is 64px in width, but some creature images are only 32px wide.

-- Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:07, 12 July 2007 (PDT)

hey whitelaces
alright this really is off-topic, but anyway

You might have noticed I have kind of "given up" tibiawiki. To explain that (=give an excuse) I'd just like to say I have been dedicated to other projects, such as forum moderation and some other wikis

Recently I took over (MUWHAUHAUAHAU!!) a small wiki at wikia. It is about lucid dreaming and I have been dedicating A LOT to it.

I was granted bureaucrat rights because of my edits (the wiki was pretty much abandoned) and so I have been putting effort into bringing it up.

I wonder if you, in all your expertise, could go over there and evaluate the wiki?? I have been the only contributor recently, so most of what's there is made by me.

The link to it is http://lucid.wikia.com

if yo uprefer to do so, reply on my talk page there at http://lucid.wikia.com/wiki/User:Kromoh

wolf hugs,  Nagatho Goldenflag  Talk  Contributions  12 July 2007 - 07:58

Congratulations on your new project! I also know what it means to be busy, so I do not think I will become a regular contributor on your lucid dreams wiki, but if you have any specific questions or articles you want me to look at, I would be happy to help out!

--'' Omnis Minervae homo Petronius. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:57, 12 July 2007 (PDT)


 * well, since you offered help, I'm gonna take the opportunity. On tibiawiki's main page, both left and right tables (green and blue one) have the same height. I have been trying to do that but no result so far. How did you do that? dark magic?
 *  Nagatho Goldenflag  Talk  Contributions  12 July 2007 - 01:15

Haha, no... there's no black magic involved. Those two boxes are actually formatted table cells.

This Code:

Will look like this:

You will need to make adjustments to size and color, obviously... but that's how I did it on the mainpage.

--'' Omnis Minervae homo Petronius. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:10, 13 July 2007 (PDT)
 * Been bothering me for a while why do we code all the templates in Html? '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

Well, that depends on the template. If it is a nested template, then the tables were coded in HTML to avoid problems with the 2nd and 3rd level pipe characters ( | ). I understand that in a recent mediawiki update, some of these issues have been resolved for tables, but there are some "special" rules you need to follow about cell content (nested tables are okay, but nested templates with tables may prematurely "close" the table in some circumstances).

Another reason is because when most of the templates were made, it was more costly (for the server processor) to use the wiki-tables, because of the extra parsing required to render them. In recent mediawiki versions, it is actually better to use the wikitables, since it is more strict in parsing regular HTML tags now.

I guess the short answer is that the HTML tables were better at the time. Now the only drawback I can think of is that the wiki-tables are harder for people to read, but that is just an issue of education.

-- Nemo Hispanic Inquisition expectat  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:25, 16 July 2007 (PDT)

@ Main Page
I've seen so far on distance weapons when they go to the week featured item: like Bow and now Enchanted Spear. It's like this:

Enchanted Spear (Unknown)

What does that (Unknown) mean? It's very weird and visitors may think that too. Maybe fix it, remove it, or add the correct value to that (I don't know what it is).

--  &dagger; Pudd Knight &dagger;  Talk  Contribs  -- 16:08, 13 July 2007 (PDT)

That "Unknown" is the itemclass. Since the itemclass for weapons are a combination of hands and type, there is no "actual" itemclass.

Don't worry... it will be fixed soon. I am about to update the items template.

-- Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est.  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:37, 16 July 2007 (PDT)

whitey, me again lol
alright, I need some more help

I tried to make a template for a thingie in lucid wiki, but it simply refuses to work. Would you please take a look at it? the template is here and the test page is here. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I followed wikimedia's articles while doing it.  Nagatho Goldenflag  Talk  Contributions  14 July 2007 - 07:54

It's fixed. There were a couple of problems:


 * 1) Having the table nested inside the parserfunction was causing problems. Whenever it found a pipe character ( | ), it thought that was part of the parserfunction, not the table. I had to replace it with a template that would make it parse properly.
 * 2) The " #if: " parserfunctions would not work correctly the way you had them. You need to add the optional default value to the first parameter, or it will always evaluate as "true", even if the parameter does not exist.

You can check the edit history to see exactly what I changed.

-- C'est la fin des hericots  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:59, 16 July 2007 (PDT)

Item Template
Could you change the text "See entire items list" in the bottom left hand corner to match that of the style of the add history and this is a "X" in the top right. '''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

You mean to make it smaller to match the size?

-- Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est.  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 07:56, 16 July 2007 (PDT)
 * Yes, and put it on the same row as "add history" '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

Okay, done.

--'' <span title="(french) Like a hair in the soup">Comme un cheveau sur la soupe. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 08:21, 16 July 2007 (PDT)

Constant Effect Bots
Would you ever consider sending your programs to Erig so that they could always be online? '''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

They are always (almost) online.

I have them running on a computer that is left on 24 hours a day. There are only infrequent times that it needs to be turned off, and then it is only for a short time.

I don't actually have a big problem with sharing the source. If I ever decide to stop contributing to TibiaWiki, I would certainly give the bots to someone else to maintain. Until then, I am little wary about distributing them.

--'' <span title="(latin) Bad kitty!">Feles mala! '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 11:01, 19 July 2007 (PDT)
 * I assumed that you just turned them on whenever you came online...But surely they'd be far more efficient if they were with erig - they could edit within his server and could do it without even being noticed by contributers. The updates would be near instantaenous would they not? '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

With direct database access, yes, the bots could update pages without being visible to contributors, but that's actually a bad idea. If there was no record of the edit, then it would look like the last person who edited the page also made the bot's edit. Also, if there was a mistake, it would be MUCH more difficult to undo. Besides, unless you click on "Show Bots" on the recent changes page, the bot edits will be hidden anyway, so they shouldn't clutter the recent changes list for normal users.

There's also the issue of disabling the bot in case it malfunctions or starts causing damage. When the bot makes edits as a user, any wiki admin can block the account to prevent it from causing further harm. Otherwise, it would have to be manually controlled by one person (Erig).

Speed should not be so much of an issue. I have written the bots to be "nice" to the server. They should only make updates when necessary, and they leave an adequate delay between requests, so that the impact of the bots should not affect normal wiki traffic. I have been watching the recent updates on this wiki for almost two years, and I can confidently say that there are not enough updates for me to make the bots more aggressive in checking the recent changes. The decrease in the performance of the wiki would be noticeable, and there would not be enough benefit. As it is now, there is approximately a 10-15 minute delay on average between when a page gets updated, and the bots start propagating the change to the lists.

About the bots running on the same machine as the wiki, I am pretty sure that Erig is hosting his sites on Linux or another *nix variant (I would if I were him). But the bots I wrote are actually windows services that run in the background on one of my computers, so they would have to be re-written to run as a series of shell scripts in cron, or at least retro-fitted as console applications.

I guess that's a really long way to say, I don't think there is enough of a reason to try and convince Erig to install these bots on the web server(s) hosting his site.

--'' <span title="(latin) I think some people in togas are plotting against me.">Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 11:33, 19 July 2007 (PDT)
 * The only pro I was thinking of was "Wouldn't it be coool if as soon as you pressed refresh the creature you editted would instantly be on the column in the right" it's a silly pipe dream really that serves no purpose now that all the creatures found a rightful place in their categories. I suppose I tend to get lost in my dream worlds of magical, outstanding mystical tomorrows involving super-duper technology; there on that's why I love games about magic and such.


 * Btw thank you ever-so much for doing so much to this wiki I really doubt we'd be anywhere with your help. '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ]

'''

You're right... that would be cool. Until MediaWiki implements some kind of trigger on page edits, it's not going to happen, though.

And thanks for the compliment. I like this site ;)

-- <span title="(latin) Behold the power of cheese">Ecce potestas casei  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 11:48, 19 July 2007 (PDT)

Creature infobox Template
Could you change the size of the text in the bottom left hand corner to match that of the text to the bottom right and top right please? (As you did with the item template) '''Craggles  [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

Okay, done.

-- <span title="(latin) Everybody's a comedian">Quisque comoedus est  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:50, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

@ ItemLists bot
Hello Whitey. I've noticed that, the bot is sorting the Sword Weapons by attack. There's already a list of sword weapons sorted by attack here, the current list should be listed by level, Uno time sorted it by level and the bot re-sorted again by attack. I didn't check other weapons like club and axes, but could you take a look and fix it?

--  &dagger; Pudd Knight &dagger;  Talk <span style="small-caps; border: 0px solid #186fc8; background-color:White; color:#186fc8" title="My Contributions"> Contribs  -- 04:47, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

Thanks for letting me know. I'll take care of it.

-- <span title="(latin) If you can read this you're over-educated">Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 05:34, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

I don't understand.
Why do you keep deleteing my charactors on my user page?!!?!?!?

The pages you are creating are actually NOT on your userpage. You simply created links to the global namespace.

Your links pointed to these pages:
 * UnForgivan Sorcerer
 * Unforgivan Druid

Your links should have pointed to these pages:
 * User:UnSorcerer/Unforgivan Sorcerer
 * User:UnSorcerer/Unforgivan Druid

See the difference? All you need to do is change the links on your userpage.

--'' <span title="(latin) In every sense, a man of Minerva.">Omnis Minervae homo Petronius. '' --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 07:46, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

Bots
Why were they disabled? '''Craggles [ Random::Chat::Guild::Contributions::Tibicam Profile ] '''

I think he'll update the bot so he must disable it for a while, look my comment added to this talk page just up there. So I think soon they'll be here again.

--  &dagger; Pudd Knight &dagger;  Talk <span style="small-caps; border: 0px solid #186fc8; background-color:White; color:#186fc8" title="My Contributions"> Contribs  -- 16:10, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

Actually, I had to disable them because there was an issue that did not allow them to login to the wiki, and I didn't have time to look at it over the weekend.

It's all fixed now, so I have re-enabled them.

-- <span title="(latin) Everybody's a comedian">Quisque comoedus est  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:16, 23 July 2007 (PDT)

Question on how we get Info to add to wiki
I have a question: It is Ok to add to arena bosses the sounds, abilities, damages, taken from what you can see from Cams or videos in youtube? Since you can't see very well from up and if you are inside doing the quest you don't have time to write the damages and abilities. Or we can only add from what we see with our chars to be 100% acurated and avoid fake videos? -  Kwigon the sharpshooter  Talk   -July-21-2007.

I think that's fine.... just use common sense, and if something doesn't seem right, then you should probably just ignore the video.

For the most part, I don't think that people would fake videos like that, and if they are faked, it's usually easy to tell.

-- <span title="(latin) Your fly is open">Braccae tuae aperiuntur  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 19:24, 21 July 2007 (PDT)

Size of maps for quest pages
I've always wondered how people make their maps on quest pages so big. I'd like to add the map for the Mastermind Potion Quest, but found that the map on the client is way too small, and I'd have to cut a floor map into 2 areas, which is kind of confusing. If you could help me with this, that'd be great. Thanks.

-Buzz, 7/23/07

Couple different ways.


 * Some people just copy/paste the minimap like you said.
 * Most people (from what I can tell), use a map viewer (like the one at WOT)

There are some other ways, but I think these are the easiest and most common.

-- <span title="(latin) There is no free lunch">Nullum gratuitum prandium  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 20:51, 23 July 2007 (PDT)

Quest completion status project
Well, been working on making something so itl be easier for people to keep track of quests completed on their user pages. I started out knowing nothing whatsoever about the wiki, if nothing else it's been a learning experience. Anyways i've finally make a breakthrough in my learning and widdled the massive text loaded pages down to a few lines of template per city. Quest completion Status If you click edit, you'l see how i've setup Ab'dendriel on the quest list, rather efficient and actually useable I think. Figured I better ask permission before actually adding possibly unwanted city templates to wiki and creating an unnecisary workload for the admins. --Rathgard 02:20, 25 July 2007 (PDT)

Actually ive decided it works fine anywhere, so ill just keep it in userpages where its easy to upkeep and maintain. Twas an awesome learning experience, still needs a lot of time, not so much work. Can't wait for my next project :D --Rathgard 03:13, 25 July 2007 (PDT)

That's a great start! I can see that it has taken a lot of work for you.

The largest problem is that you are duplicating information on User:Rathgard/Sandbox/Ab'dendriel. If someone updates the main quest page, your information will be inaccurate.

Not ready for distribution yet, but you are getting there!

If you want some advice or assistance, let me know. Otherwise I will just let you work through it on your own (you learn more that way).

Good job so far!

-- <span title="(latin) If catapults are outlawed, then only outlaws will have catapults">Cum catapultae proscriptae erat, tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 06:14, 25 July 2007 (PDT)

Database Error
Am geting this alot when I save pages. Is this a bug? Also check Warlock Mortimer‎ I think he is doing bad edits again, he is changing monster atack but he dont change the max damage and other mistakes "make this tipe of istakes and other mistakes in each edit he makes so how we can trust his information is acurated if he cant do something so simple. Database error A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was: (SQL query hidden) from within function "Job::batchInsert". MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction (:/tmp/mysql.sock)". -  Kwigon the sharpshooter  Talk   -July-29-2007.

The database error occurs sometimes when you edit a page that is linked from a very large number of other articles. It is nothing to worry about. From what I can tell, the only "bad" thing that happens when you get this error, is that the jobqueue is not properly updated, but only partially... it seems to be mostly updated correctly.

Anyway, for all you knowledgable wiki-ers out there, it simply means that not all wikilinks are updated, and some pages may need a null-edit. The problem is, there's no way to know which pages need it.

Second, about Warlock Mortimer, if he is intentionally adding incorrect information, then he needs to stop, or he will be banned from editing. So far, I do not see anything that appears to be intentionally incorrect.

About him not updating the max damage, that is a common mistake that almost everyone seems to make (at least sometimes).

If you have proof that the information he is adding is incorrect, and that he is doing it to intentionally vandalize the wiki, then please let me know.

Also remember that name-calling is inappropriate, even when another user is frustrating you.

-- <span title="(latin) I came, I saw, I want to go home">Veni, vidi, volo in domum redire  --  Whitelaces &dagger;  Talk &dagger; -- 07:04, 30 July 2007 (PDT)