Talk:Loot Statistics

About Versions (8.6 to 9.1)
The parser should always give the correct version.

We will be using version 9.1 on the template for the creatures on the list because their loot rate changed in 9.1 or they were implemented in the 9.1 update.

We will be using version 8.6 on the template for the rest of the creatures because their loot rate has not changed since 8.6.

List of creatures that will use version 9.1 
 * Behemoth
 * Blazing Fire Elemental
 * Blistering Fire Elemental
 * Carrion Worm
 * Draken Abomination
 * Draken Spellweaver
 * Dwarf Guard
 * Earth Elemental
 * Eternal Guardian
 * Fire Overlord
 * Hellfire Fighter
 * Jagged Earth Elemental
 * Muddy Earth Elemental
 * Stone Golem
 * Swamp Troll
 * Tarantula
 * Vampire
 * Witch
 * Worker Golem


 * Askarak Demon
 * Askarak Lord
 * Askarak Prince
 * Bog Frog
 * Clay Guardian
 * Crystal Wolf
 * Death Priest
 * Deepling Scout
 * Desperate White Deer
 * Diamond Servant
 * Donkey
 * Dromedary
 * Elder Mummy
 * Elf Overseer
 * Energized Raging Mage
 * Enraged White Deer
 * Feverish Citizen
 * Filth Toad
 * Firestarter
 * Ghoulish Hyaena
 * Golden Servant
 * Grave Guard
 * Groam
 * Honour Guard
 * Horestis
 * Horse
 * Insectoid Scout
 * Iron Servant
 * Kraknaknork
 * Kraknaknork's Demon
 * Mad Mage
 * Raging Mage
 * Sacred Spider
 * Sandstone Scorpion
 * Shaburak Demon
 * Shaburak Lord
 * Shaburak Prince
 * Slug
 * Spider Queen
 * Starving Wolf
 * Thornfire Wolf
 * Tomb Servant
 * Weakened Demon
 * White Deer
 * Yielothax

--Daniel Letalis 02:11, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Inclusion
I want to include all creatures of Category:Loot Statistics automaticly, but does not work. Is there a way to do this? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 17:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Uh ... because Template:Loot Statistics doesn't exist...? I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

But you'll most likely need DPL to include the list, unless you plan to manually update it. -- Sixorish 18:01, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't explain this very good, this is what I want: if page is in category:loot statistics then link it on this page. I know this can be done with DPL, I just wondered if it can be done without. I made a typo in my first post, I meant of course. I thought using the curly brackets did include the contents of a page, like used with TibiaWiki:About on the main page. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 18:06, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

It can't, because the category's contents is virtual and isn't actually on the page. In any case, there are user pages on this list, so even if it could we would want to filter those ones out. -- Sixorish 18:10, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

However, given that the strain on the server DPL causes is significantly less when it's just a link (thereby not transcluding any page at all), the DPL is fine here. -- Sixorish 18:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. It filters out userpages by default? (I thought you would add notcategory or something). ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 18:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Check the source: -- Sixorish 18:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, that is clarifying. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 04:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Rich Text Editor
I always wondered why people added numbers to the template while this is not needed (e.g. [ this] revision). I think it's the fault of the rich text editor, which I tested 1 minute ago for the first time and I don't really like it. It's obviously made to ease the life of editors which are not experienced with codes, but I think it makes things only more difficult. Look at this image as an example, is it easy to see what you're doing?



^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 15:49, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

TibiaMl
They made some stats too here. Can be usefull to compare if you're not sure about an edit. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 13:43, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Version
I'm adding the version parameter, removing notes like Update 8.5 and doing a general review on all loot statistics pages listed on this page. I'm at the S now, but it takes a lot of time so any help is welcome. If you're not sure what version to add, look in the history and compare with Updates dates.

Edit: I'm done, thanks everybody who helped. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 21:48, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

What about dates where people added stuff from videos? -- Sixorish 23:20, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, will we need to add the template to pages which don't have 8.54 statistics to utilize the JavaScript feature? I'm assuming the script automatically edits pages based on input - I haven't tried it, doesn't seem to work for some reason (perhaps skin compatibility or some such) -- Sixorish 02:21, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't quite work in firefox yet, due to a bug, I suggest trying Google Chrome or something. It works like this: if there are no stats with version=8.54 on the page, it will add a new template, if there are stats found with version=8.54 then it combines them. So stats with older versions, are not necessary to edit to make the parser work, but I still want them to be edited, for a universal way to show the version (let the template do it). ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 08:19, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wrong Data?
I didn't know where else to look, but I'm getting a Wrong data in Old Statistics(1) error so I'm not able to update any of the loot easily. I didn't know where else to look, but is anyone else getting this problem? Thanks!. Leo Kinoske 10:33, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Is this to do with the version number? I guess if you're trying to upload old stats with the new log analyser it will assume you are trying to upload them for the current client and not an older one. If that is the case you need to use the loot merger to get the stats with the correct version as well as using the log analyser to get the template (and just removing the version number 8.54), otherwise it will join old stats (yours) with stats from the current game. beejay 10:41, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

It might be the other computer I use. This one worked just fine on the first tries. Leo Kinoske 16:32, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Number of kills
is it possible to add number of monsters next to monster name? I mean the monsters listed at the end of the page.

now:

Barbarian Bloodwalker/Loot Statistics

desirable:

Barbarian Bloodwalker/Loot Statistics - 34 kills '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''
 * I tried - just due to having prior loot stats resulting in multiple templates I can't simple dpl the kills in.

17:30, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

DPL concerns - not completing the list
It appears that there's a limit to the amount of items included by DPL. Warlock/Loot Statistics for example, is missing (in fact, anything beyond Ushuriel is). -- Sixorish 14:04, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

That's too bad... Wel'll have to think of a work-around then. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 16:51, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

'''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''
 * Do we need the red links? If no then we can use, User:Craggles/loot.

20:27, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

And when the red links become blue? It doesn't resolve anything, just causes problems in the long-term. -- Sixorish 10:28, March 4, 2010 (UTC) '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''
 * I agree it's only a quick fix but we'll still be using dpl in the future, so if we ever fix our current problem it'll fix our future problem too.

16:35, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

I think it is fixed now, the same can be done with User:Craggles/loot too when we have more creatures with loots, I believe default DPL limit is 500 --Daniel Letalis 07:19, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

add all kills with 1 button
is it possible to add all kills taken from server log with only 1 click? Without clicking each button for each monster?

Jura 09:07, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

although it might look easier, I don't think that's a good idea. I usually don't upload the monster stats of which I have very few kills. Why would I want to add the kill of one rat for example? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 09:24, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Some monsters live in separated groups - one of reasons.

1 kill from you, 1 from another person - and we have already 2 kills.

If you upload 5 kills of rats, 3 kills of spiders, 2 kills of poison spiders, 5 kills of bugs,1 kill of carniphila, 2 kills of wasp - in real you added 18 kills, what is kinda significant amount.

Jura 15:17, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, all monster kills should be added to the system. I'm in complete agreement with Jura.

TheKillerNacho 15:51, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

It would save time which would be useful but personally I can live with a few extra clicks if the effort to make it possible is too much. Although, it would be handy for people who run around areas like POI where you can find many different creatures and for those who like to save up a few stats before submitting them on here. beejay 16:57, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * How does the loot parser handle pages like Thief (Creature) ?
 * It doesn't, I can update so it has a list of exceptions that redirect each special name creature to the correct page, I will do that in some days.--Daniel Letalis 02:33, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

About adding all kills with 1 button, it isn't too complicated to implement but I'm not sure if it should be added because it would be many pages edits with 1 click, dunno, doesn't seem right to me.

--Daniel Letalis 02:33, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * new loot namespace would solve the problem of many pages edits by simply hiding them. Maybe just add a possibility to add with one click and leave the old system "alive" too? Jura 20:26, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

It's not too complicated to click a few buttons to upload a few things, is it?

Everything you kill should be uploaded to get accurate loots! derp Leo Kinoske 18:59, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

I'm making tests with the parser for uploading with 1 click, It works perfect but I don't like it's display, you can test/upload anything there(is just for testing and data uploaded there won't be added to tibia.wikia stats), leave comments on the discussion page there, thanks.

http://dantest.wikia.com/wiki/Loot_Statistics

--Daniel Letalis 00:21, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Problem with loot statistic data
How can I hide changes of Loot Statistic in "Recent Changes" and in "My Home"? Jura 17:46, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you can in Home, but in Recent Changes there is a link just under "find users" named Hide Loot Statistics, or you can go: namespace, loot statistics and click exclude. beejay 17:51, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Should the link be more outstanding, so people can easier see it? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 19:04, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

About summons
Anyone has ideas of how to filter summons from loot statistics?

--Daniel Letalis 15:34, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Usually summon kills are grouped with a leader shortly after they die; you could create an exception list for which your script analyzes their placement (if they're empty) to find a nearby leader? It would give a smaller error than keeping those kills in, anyway. -- Sixorish 20:43, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Ask CIP if they mark summons with some word/symbol in the server log? ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 20:52, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

What good would asking CIP do? If there is a difference, we can't see it and we can't copy it to clipboard. It really won't do us any good. -- Sixorish 02:50, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe someone can make a proposal about not letting the summons appear in the server log. Or maybe that since summons are always empty they could change it so that you can't open the dead bodies of summons. That would make them similar to snakes or fire elementals.

Nevaran 12:08, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

I would like Neveran's idea but cipsoft doesn't change this kind of stuff even when many people ask for it in many proposal threads and is easy to do (like making loot in the middle of screen optional)(yeah right full time tibia client developers), I guess I will have to figure out something like the filter Sixorish suggested.

--Daniel Letalis 06:07, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

If you manage, perhaps it would be wise to disregard their loot in deciding whether to mark them as a summon (i.e. mark all scarabs around an ancient scarab as summons). That way it isn't selective removal and should remove as many legitimate empty ones as it did ones with loot. Or, you could create an exception list (another, ew!) exploiting the fact some of the summons are never / almost never empty.

I wonder though: what do we do with Orc? He is one of the few which CIP have placed noticeable differences in loot drops (Sam's backpack). It's things like this which make me believe CIP have a lot larger creature database than we have (i.e. many creature duplicates with alternative odds) which would throw off our statistics. -- Sixorish 07:44, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yes exception lists make process slower but I believe not using one for this wouldn't be a good idea. I'll keep thinking on how to do this because even with complete lists there could be some problems like for example 1x phantasm that runs in red and is never killed but some summons are killed on that log.

About loot, I believe cip calculates a chance of drop depending on several things that may include:
 * Base rareness of the item
 * Time passed since last "loot reset" on that area
 * "Real" value (calculated by cip) of the item on that world
 * Area like: premmium/free/sam's bp(orc fortress)/others
 * Number of that specific creature killed since server save
 * Number of persons on the area

I'm sure there are more factors that they consider but these come to my mind now. Loot statistics become more accurate when more kills are added because kills from most areas and most timezones are included, but only cipsoft can really predict loot because they know what factors they use to calculate it.

--Daniel Letalis 05:00, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

I emailed Rejana, asking to forward it to a client programmer of CipSoft. I have hope this will work :) ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 09:51, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Awh, it was a fool's hope, she basically said I should post it on the proposal board. Maybe ask some Cip member in-game, who can fix it within 5 minutes next test server :P (or do a proposal on the proposal board which takes 2 years to get implemented). ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 17:10, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

You didn't think that was going to work did you? We're mere fansite representatives, we have no real connection with CIP let alone influence over them. We have to go through the same process as everyone else even if it means waiting 3 years. I don't doubt you'll get the same response if you proposed it on TS. And mind you, CIP have, I believe, less than 5 people working on the game from a technical point. That's why Tibia is progressing slowly and is substandard compared against modern video games. They underestimate what is necessary to build and maintain a MMORPG; that is why they won't accept it even considering how small a change this is. They simply don't have the time. -- Sixorish 03:19, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Actually.. I did kind of think that, feels very foolish now. They are hiring more people though, maybe in a few years... ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 12:27, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Loot/Loot Statistics on Creature Page
I posted this on the Infobox Creature template talk page, but I guess it's relevant here, too. I think it would be more beneficial and interesting for users if the 'loot' link on this template (the one right before all loot is listed) linked to the loot statistics page for the creature instead of the general page for loot. As it stands, there is no link from a creature's page to its loot statistics page and this change would sort of make sense and give viewers an estimated rarity of loot.Kharzad Ironfist 17:34, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * As it stands, there is no link from a creature's page to its loot statistics page

Isn't there? I'm not sure what you mean if there isn't. Check the parenthesis at the end of their loot listing. -- Sixorish 19:07, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, so there is. Kharzad Ironfist 00:05, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Would you prefer the link to be to the left under the link to loot? It's there to be noticed, and if you missed it then it's clearly not doing a good job there. -- Sixorish 00:33, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

No, that's probably not necessary. I feel pretty oblivious for missing it, now, but I haven't noticed the link since whenever it was added. I think it's fine and less obtrusive (though that might've been my problem) at the end of the loot list. Kharzad Ironfist 15:11, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Monsters without loot
How to create a page for monsters with no loot? Like all bosses in Svargrond Arena and so? Or any another way to deal with such monsters and their loot pages?

Why would you want to make a loot statistics page for a monster with no loot? Those pages don't have to exist, I think.. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 14:55, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

You shouldn't worry about red links to their respective articles, it's just fine as it is :) Cykotitan 15:01, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Not able to add stats
14:51 Loot of Ferumbras: 2 GOLD INGOTS, 16 GOLD COINS, 74 GOLD COINS, A MAGIC PLATE ARMOR, A SPELLBOOK OF LOST SOULS, 45 SMALL DIAMONDS, GLACIER KILT, A RUNED SWORD, A BLOODY EDGE, A DEMON SHIELD, FERUMBRAS' HAT

wasn't able to edit the loot stats page, not sure how...Perwik 20:20, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I copy and pasted the text and it worked for me (has loaded to the loot stats page), it just took a bit longer than normal. Is the loading time what you had a problem with? beejay 21:05, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't sure how to integrate my results with the old stats on the page.Perwik 07:15, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

There currently is no way to do this as simply as adding to the current version. I guess there are a few ways on how to do this although I have only done the manual way.
 * You could go to Loot Statistics:Ferumbras and add the loot into the right client version manually, yourself.
 * Before pressing upload on the loot statistics page you could change the version number to the correct version number.
 * Or you could use the loot statistics upload form, then copy it into the loot merger (right side) and cut/paste the statistics from Loot Statistics:Ferumbras into the left side and merge. Then you would need to copy this into Loot Statistics:Ferumbras page, similar to doing it manually.

So were the loot statistics you wanted uploading from update/8.5? Also, the loot statistics uploader doesn't recognise words in capitals as the same words not in capitals, as I found out while uploading those stats. beejay 10:09, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Besides technical point of view, should this statistics be added? If they came from a person yelling I think not.

--Daniel Letalis 02:57, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Keep original statistics data
Parser part can be done, but for other things I was wondering if this would be a good idea:

The user process his server log as he does now but there would be a small extra wait while the loot data is uploaded to a special page.

Imagine the user uploads this log: You see a backpack (Vol:20). It weighs 52.00 oz. Bought 100x mana potion for 5100 gold. Loot of a cobra: nothing Xxx has logged in. Loot of a crocodile: ham, meat You see Fulanito de Tal (Level 50). He is a sorcerer.

To keep privacy as it is now, the data would be filtered and uploaded to the new special page like this: v:8.54 a cobra:nothing a crocodile:ham,meat

I'm aware that this extra process may consume some extra seconds depending on server log size but considering current/proposed loot statistics formats may be incomplete and can become obsolete one day, having all this data would give us enough information to recreate the statistics in any format we want/need at anytime.

I know that the new special page can become really large but it can be backed up and emptied now and then by someone in charge of it and because of the history system that wikia has, old info would be accessible to everyone.

--Daniel Letalis 08:28, April 15, 2010 (UTC) ---==Update== So how do we make the parser update the 8.57 loot stats? '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''

I hope that's not necessary, that would mean we would have start from 0 with all creatures and I think nothing was changed in the loot with update 8.55, 8.56 and 8.57. I could ask Rejana if she can confirm this though.. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 05:18, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

'''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''
 * We'd best sort it out quickly then people have begun adding thier stats for the new update. Poison Spiders and the Rotworm loot stats to name a couple.

I asked Rejana today and she just replied the content team says, there were no changes in creatures' loot. We can still use update 8.54 with no problem. ^^ Bennie (talk ~ fellows) ^^ 13:45, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

So how do we stop people adding loot to 8.75? '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''

Sorry for the late response, check: w:c:dantest:Loot_Statistics

1. The select box near "Process" button would help people understand tibia loot version still is the same as 8.54

2. the text boxes are read only

This version adds the option to upload all with a single click.

So admins can easily edit the text for current tibia version I made a new variable, as you can see on the 1st 3 lines of w:c:dantest:Loot_Statistics/Lootparserloot

Because upload all with a single click could be problematic and hasn't been discussed enough, let me know if I should make a version that has the new features except the "upload all"

--Daniel Letalis 18:25, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think we can prevent people from uploading logs with the updated version as it can easily be done manually.

About uploading all at once. People can easily forget that they have killed creatures that summon, so perhaps the upload all wouldn't be such a good feature. Although I do see a few people who like to save a log or two and upload later, because I do the same, I would lean towards the upload button. But that's just me.. Beejay 01:09, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Then a note like the tibianews map note would be more important than update the parser, so as soon as I have time I will update the test parser, remove the readonly thing, remove the upload all button and make the summary tell the version the user added so we can track faster and fix 8.57 additions.

--Daniel Letalis 02:22, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

I updated the parser, so test it(w:c:dantest:Loot_Statistics) and update it if needed: w:c:dantest:Loot_Statistics/Lootparserloot

It has some plural words improvements and allows users to select tibia version, plus the uploaded statistics with incorrect version should be easier to track.

--Daniel Letalis 06:47, May 12, 2010 (UTC) '''Craggles Random::Chat::Contributions::Tibicam Profile '''
 * Sorry if I'm being stupid but where is this multi upload on off variable?


 * There isn't a variable for this, I was tempted to leave all and hide the multiupload things but with any new browser any user would be able to unhide/enable mutiupload so I removed all the multiupload code. --Daniel Letalis 15:47, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

case sensitive monster names
Loot_Statistics:Chizzoron_the_Distorter is not the same as Loot_Statistics:Chizzoron_The_Distorter Which one is correct? Probably parser should be fixed, so if "The" is incorrect, what words don't have to be uppercase besides "the" in monster names?

--Daniel Letalis 21:44, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

I read tibia.wikia standards page and I made a fix to the parser for this issue, function ucwords needs a small update, so if any admin can do it, would be nice Loot Statistics/Lootparserloot (around line 40). function ucwords(str) { str = (str+'').replace(/^(.)|\s(.)|-(.)/g, function ($1) { return $1.toUpperCase; }); return str.replace(' Of The ', ' of the ').replace(' Of A ', ' of a ').replace(' Of An ', ' of an ').replace(' Of ', ' of ').replace(' The ', ' the '); } --Daniel Letalis 23:00, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

I have added the "replace(' The ', ' the ');" I hope that's right. :) Beejay 23:57, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

New client version 8.61
Anyone knows are there any changes in loot in new client version? Zantax 07:45, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

I hope that if anyone will find something he will say it here. Btw - now there's 8.62. Zippoxer 21:20, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Interpretation
There should be a section on this page on how to interpret the statistics. As we know, some food stacks do not appear in loot messages. Unfortunately, the only way around this is infeasible, and there's nothing for CIP to fix: meat is an uncountable noun. It gives inaccurate numbers for such pages as Loot Statistics:Deer, which would have 200% or more for meat drops. Where this note goes is a dilemma itself though: the page is so large that it may go unnoticed completely if it's not above the input form. Perhaps in the lead? -- Sixorish 00:16, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

If only the loot statistics for meat will not be exact, so we can live with it. Zippoxer 21:30, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

It isn't just of food. Any uncountable noun will have this mistake. It's just more prevalent in food. It's not that it makes some huge impact, but rather that audience should note that such items cannot be accounted for in the statistics. -- Sixorish 18:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

I don't remember well but I think we decided those % to be like that because the logic that there can't be a chance on % higher than 100 and because the new template was made having in mind that it could fit non countable items better. The %s are repetitions of that item / total kills, that is the real chance you have to get some item no matter if u get 1 or 10 in same monster. --Daniel Letalis 08:17, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Statistics really works =]
I've just killed 50 rats and got 87gp and the statistics says I will get 86gp :P

There are 1000 kills added to statistics for rats in 8.6, but 1000 kills isn't enough for monsters who drop over 5 different items.Zippoxer 22:26, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Updates/8.7
Do we need to start new stats for this update? If yes, we need to change it quick.. Besides the new creatures, I don't remember if Cip talked about different drop rates, maybe somebody can find out? Also (more to Daniel) a new event creature has a comma in its loot something like Loot of a Cake thing: a sweet, sugary substance. You might need to add an exception if people start uploading stats with the loot of this monster in it, but it's not high priority since this world quest/event didn't start yet as far as I know. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 07:46, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yup, parser needs to be changed so we can upload loot for 8.7-- Mitus 10:50, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

 Craggles  ಠ_ಠ  Talk ∙ Contribs
 * I don't think we do, I can't imagine cip would tweak the drop rates

I don't think loot version should be changed if the only change is mount creature products, seems better to me to just adjust the rates of the new products on old statistics than start all from 0.

The item with comma in name shouldn't be a problem, I'll update parser soon. --Daniel Letalis 18:08, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Quote: Bennie: Can you please tell me if the drop rates for already existing monsters were changed? Rejana: I asked the content team about that, and the answer is "nope" :o)

So it can be changed back to 8.6 and maybe a note should be added with the reason. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:15, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Ok! :) Thought I would change it because I wasn't initially sure. Beejay 17:27, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

I changed version back to 8.6, so, about taming items, I think that in some weeks or when there are enough statistics with taming items on them, it would be good to just adjust the rates, making average for the total kills using the statistics uploaded since update for reference. --Daniel Letalis 18:38, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Well, if there are new monsters or new items how this will look in statistics? mount item had x% drop rate between 8.6-8.7 versions? when it didnt even exist in 8.6? i think there must be new category...--

- Chaosu ʘ Talk ʘ Patience is virtue. ✔ ♠ ✓ 16:20, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

So, we got 9~ monsters that maybe drop taming items, I don't think is worth it to lose all the statistics we have for 9 monsters, I see these options:
 * 1) Leave everything as 8.6 and adjust the percentages for taming items in some weeks.
 * 2) Adjust loot scripts so they process creatures with new loots as 8.7 and older creatures as 8.6(when we know from where all new items come).
 * 3) Lose all the stats we have since 8.6 and start over from 8.7.

Whatever we decide to do, stats have to be checked according to date and fixed if needed. I still think #1 is better but comment on this. --Daniel Letalis 22:22, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

Well we're not exactly losing any stats, they can be easily looked up on the same page, right? --

- Chaosu ʘ Talk ʘ Patience is virtue. ✔ ♠ ✓ 01:17, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Besides compare drop rates, I can't think a scenario where stats for other version than current are useful and even after 6 months with 8.6, we don't have good quality statistics for many monsters. Not having good quality statistics for monsters makes the stats useless, the idea would be to avoid a reset, so we don't have to start from 0 kills again. --Daniel Letalis 01:32, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

I'm totally happy with the first solution Daniel proposed. We need more stats for most creatures and it's a waste to start from scratch if nothing changed (besides a very limited amount of new stuff). But that's just my opinion. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 13:47, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Right now in example on Carniphila page there is table for 8.7, but new kills are added to 8.6. That should be combined somehow... --

- Chaosu ʘ Talk ʘ Patience is virtue. ✔ ♠ ✓ 13:34, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Done, thank you. Beejay 13:43, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

So now drop rate of mount item is extra low because it was combined with 855 kills from 8.6 : | I dont like that solution but let it be I guess... --

- Chaosu ʘ Talk ʘ Patience is virtue. ✔ ♠ ✓ 14:14, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

I add a lot of loot statistic to Hide and Tarantulas but i think i add them to 8.6 instead of 8.7, there is no option to chose 8.7

Don't worry about adding them for now, they can be merged when needed. The parser is the most accurate way to add loot statistics.  † Myst Leingod – ' ₪ Talk ₪ ' – Contribs †  13:49, January 19, 2011 (UTC)

Just wondering, is the new loot's %s going to be adjusted? I have no idea on how to do this but I have suggested to players to keep uploading statistics as 8.6 and not as 8.7 but with no avail. Another idea which is similar to point 2., why not merge all those old statistics for 8.6 and put them up as 8.7 as well as uploading newer statistics also as 8.7, while leaving the old stats for creatures that now have new loot as 8.6 and uploading their new stats as 8.7, as it was before the update? Bit confusing but it would basically remove uploading as 8.6 or their stats to keep those without new loot unaffected and merged together therefore keeping the old unchanged stats with the new.

I've been messaging users and trying to explain and telling them to look here for more information and it hasn't been working so well, atleast while the new loot's statistics are showing really bad %s. People who I have had discussions with about this won't seem listen or take the time in understanding, until adjustments are made I think it will carry on and people will try to do things their own way. Beejay 03:16, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think stats should be updated when we get 3 items or more of every taming item, based on history and date of update. About changing version I don't think it is a good idea, people have to use the version we chose no the version they want, otherwise every update with same loot would be a mess. Maybe we should explain on parser page that the maximum version to use is 8.6 and/or make parser use 8.6 if it gets 8.7 Later I will do a small script to track down 8.7 stats faster and fix them. --Daniel Letalis 16:47, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

lol, this is extreme, 112 pages in loot statistics with version 8.7, I already made a version of the parser that only allows people to upload statistics with correct versions, telling them that loot version 8.6 is the latest version for client versions 8.6 to 8.7. Should I put it online? --Daniel Letalis 05:29, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

I think you probably should add it. As you can see, even though the parser explains that you shouldn't change the version and that it also says "8.6 to 8.7" people have still been doing it. Beejay 12:40, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

One Question...
On the article is written "Please do not upload secondhand loot statistics (eg: from screenshots, films or loot pastes) from other players", but if it's a screenshot of a supported fansite, for example, sometimes Tibiabr.com brings news from what boss monsters were killed on the week, can i put the loot from the news on the Loot Statistics? Rulamaso 22:34, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Usually no matter where the images are hosted, uploading statistics from images/pastes degrade statistics quality.

About specific case of boss monsters/films, an example problem is that some other user may upload the loot from same ss, in the best case the 1st uploader will watch the page, but even like that if there is an intermediate edit it is very likely the 1st uploader make a mistake trying to fix the stats.

So I would say definitely no. --Daniel Letalis 00:59, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

envelope from the wizards
A bit late to ask but how this should be managed by the parser? or we just leave it like it comes?

--Daniel Letalis 18:07, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

I think it's best to keep them out, or remove them when the event passes. A week isn't long enough to gather new statistics data for every creature. -- Sixorish 18:36, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

Problem
When I'm loading percentage chance on any item page (on monsters pages it works fine), I'm getting text like this: Dropped by: 194);" onclick="window.open('/wiki/Loot_Statistics:'+$(this).prev.text);" title="Based on 3822 kills"> (0.08%), 194);" onclick="window.open('/wiki/Loot_Statistics:'+$(this).prev.text);" title="Based on 4976 kills"> (0.02%), Draken AbominationDraken Elite. Does anyone have same problem? Dyror 15:32, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yep, using any skin, FF3 (3.6.16) / Vista OS. Seems to work fine on IE... Can't test other browsers at the moment. -- Sixorish 03:51, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

Bug should be fixed now --Daniel Letalis 06:08, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

New stats version?
Just wondering if we will change version of stats this time or leave it again on 8.6, the parser only allows '8.4', '8.5', '8.54', '8.6' for now. --Daniel Letalis 03:13, April 20, 2011 (UTC)

9.1
Do we know if the loot rates have changed for 9.1? -- Sixorish 08:16, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

I think Hunter needs to ask, but even if rates not changed, swamp trolls now drop medicine pouch and other monsters drop coal and maybe some old monsters will drop new mount items.

Also I think we still need to adjust the drop % of mount items on some statistics but it can be done after we know if rates are changed or not. --Daniel Letalis 00:55, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

I've heard a lot of people say that behemoths drop more platinum coins since the update. I think we may have to create new stats for 9.1. -- Sixorish 13:14, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

I think it's important to edit a suitable version for loot statistics after each update, since the loot rate and spectrum of many monsters always changes. for example now Witchs drop the new mount item, Swamp Trolls drops Medicine Pouchs, Carrion Worms drop Coal (Nuggets)s, Ghouls hardly drops brown pocs Etc.. --~ Vapaus 16:58, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

I will change the parser and the other loot related scripts in some more hours to accept 9.1, I still believe it is pointless to lose the statistics data from months because of small variations in some monsters, but if the game keeps changing we have to change too. I will probably reduce the amount of kills needed for a % shown on creature and item pages. --Daniel Letalis 17:13, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

I don't like the idea either but it seems many creatures were affected this time. With the mounts, we knew that very few were actually going to be looted with how rare they are, but this time around, mount items, new items, etc. are quite frequent drops. I don't think anyone really relied on the stats we had for mount items simply because of the amount that were looted.

A better solution to this would be to write a script to analyze statistics in previous revisions (compare 9.1 and pre-9.1), and, if the numbers varied considerably (when we have enough data), then those would be made "exceptions", the data would be separated and somewhere a list would determine which creatures load 9.1 data and which load 8.6. Unfortunately, this requires a lot of effort so in practice it's probably impractical. -- Sixorish 19:45, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

Ok so parser is updated.

I also changed the scripts that "load %" and "toggle %" to display only 9.1 stats and left it to only show info if 500 monsters are in 9.1 stats. --Daniel Letalis 22:55, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

If old creature's old loot has been changed, then I believe statistics should be updated for those creatures. But I don't see the point in creating new sets of statistics for every major update. I also don't see the harm in confirming whether the old loot has been adjusted. What does concern me about not changing the statistics though, is the loot statistics pages do not actually show like the parser does, that these are statistics from update x up until recent update z. Which is why I think that people tend to not use the parser sometimes and make their own new statistics for a newer client number. As well this, there is the problem for loot percentages of newer items not being adjusted e.g. reins in Loot Statistics:Dark Magician. Beejay 23:32, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

I think wasn't necessary to change statistics to 9.1, since in Update 8.7 (Christmas 2010) creature's loot changed (taming items) too but statistics does not. In Update 9.1, what changed was the taming items and coal in old creatures, but maybe more, like Sixorish said. I agree with Beejay that only creature's changed loot must be updated, although I don't know if it's possible. If change to 9.1, I just think that all major updates must too be changed. Sir'Iguela 17:01, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

mm for now I think stats should stay like 9.1 and maybe develop a tool that in the future helps us compare and merge the stats from different updates if they are similar, this update changed some creatures and not only mount items, I don't think Cip will provide info like "creature a b c d e loot is the same, creatures f g h i j k changed". --Daniel Letalis 21:50, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

There is this from Mirade's post today:

It's a pretty short list:
 * Behemoths: they drop a bit more money now
 * Vampires: drop chance of gold and vampire teeth was increased
 * coal nuggets were added to a number of monsters
 * spider fangs were added to tarantula loot
 * some taming items were added to some monsters

But that doesn't tell us if anything extra has slightly adjusted. Beejay 22:12, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Cool. I think that is sufficient information to revert back to 8.6, are there any chances of an exception list being created for behemoth, vampire and tarantula (maybe)? I'm not sure about coal, so many things drop them that we would lose a lot of data. -- Sixorish 22:17, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

I can track and merge the stats back to 8.6 easily, so there should be no hurry on do this for now, we first need to define what creatures will be 9.1 to make an exception list on the parser. How you think we should do this, or maybe just move everything back to 8.6 and make 8.6 be "8.6 to 9.1" ? --Daniel Letalis 00:37, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

List of creatures with loot changed in 9.1: - Arkshi July 24, 2011
 * Witch (Bag of Apple Slices)
 * Draken Abomination (Bamboo Leaves)
 * Draken Spellweaver (Bamboo Leaves)
 * Worker Golem (Diapason)
 * Frost Dragon (Diapason) - not confirmed
 * Cyclops (Coal) - not confirmed
 * Stone Golem (Coal)
 * Jagged Earth Elemental (Coal)
 * Earth Elemental (Coal)
 * Muddy Earth Elemental (Coal)
 * Fire Overlord (Coal)
 * Blistering Fire Elemental (Coal)
 * Blazing Fire Elemental (Coal)
 * Carrion Worm (Coal)
 * Dwarf Guard (Coal)
 * Hellfire Fighter (Coal)
 * Eternal Guardian (Coal)
 * Swamp Troll (Medicine Pouch)
 * Behemoth (more gold)
 * Vampire (more gold and Vampire Teeth)
 * Tarantula (Spider Fangs)

Thanks, I think it could work like this: player chose "8.6 to 9.1" in the parser and the correct version is added automatically depending on the monster, if the player edits and tries to upload i.e. Stone Golem with version 8.6 the parser gives a message explaining why they should use 9.1, same for creatures that didn't change, if the players edit to 9.1 he gets a message explaining he should use 8.6, is that good? --Daniel Letalis 03:56, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

I thought it to be in our best interests to change it back now because we'd have a lot more statistics. I only realized then that the size of our samples has a huge effect on item and creature pages, e.g. Demon's "load %" won't work and nor will Mastermind Shield's. But if you insist on keeping it 9.1 for now, then by all means.

The idea you proposed is a good one, I'd say go with that. -- Sixorish 23:36, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

I'm coding this now, I will still take some time to test it, there is 1 downside, if some user wants to upload real 8.6 stats of i.e. Behemoth, the parser won't allow him to, because now it will only accept 9.1 for Behemoth if the user chooses "8.6 to 9.1". I believe it is better to leave this like that because in the past people just edits the version as they want, and I don't think some 8.6 stats affect much the 9.1 stats. --Daniel Letalis 01:41, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

count exp
Hi. I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but I think it would be really nice to use the "01:21 You gained 145 experience points." to count the exp we gained and show it near the "killed x monsters which droped...".

Thanks

LN.S Team 00:44, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

It would be complicated and not 100% accurate to link creatures with the amount of exp, also I don't see the reason.

If what you wanted is to know the total exp, that would be easy, just let me know if this is what you want. --Daniel Letalis 03:50, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you're right, I meant count the total exp xD. It would be great, please do it.

Thanks

LN.S Team 16:34, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

non stackables non countables
I've seen people has added "total" parameter to some of those items, the advantage this could have is that it makes the item have data for the "Average" column. The problem is that this "total" number is not getting updated by the parser, because it is following the specs on Template:Loot2.

I think the "Kills to get 1" column on non stackable items is enough, so I will make the parser remove the "total" on all "non countable" items in some days, unless someone has a reason to disagree? --Daniel Letalis 04:08, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

I think for completeness we should adjust Template:Loot2 to account for a lack of total:  by using times:  in those cases where it isn't provided. Personally though I only use the times and total amount columns because the rest is derived from those two. -- Sixorish 05:37, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

The "Average" column is equal to: total / kills Just an example, if we kill 2 bear, they both drop "meat", the log doesn't show but they dropped 5 pieces of meat in total, the real average would be 2.5 but "times / kills" would be 1, that's why originally non countable didn't have any value on "Average" column.

I think the "Average" column is really useful for countable items, but we can't include there items like "meat", other option would be that the template or parser uses a list of items that are not stackable, so "non countable non stackable"(steel boots, knight legs, etc) items can have the "Average" value, I will test if this is possible on template level. --Daniel Letalis 06:21, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

non stackables non countables shouldn't require extra paramateres to show more data now, I made this page Loot_Statistics/Checker to easily do some checks on statistics format coherence, can only be used by sysops because it reads many pages very fast. --Daniel Letalis 05:00, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

9.4 and 8.7
Loot from the new version is being added to 8.6 stats again. The parser requires to be updated with creatures added at the 9.4 update.

Also, statistics from 8.7-specific loot is merged with 8.6 statistics since last year, that's causing some items to be displayied as too rare than they really are. Example: reins at Loot Statistics:Dark Apprentice. Is it possible to separate the 8.7 stats from 8.6 ones?

~ Arkshi 17:59, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

Event loot
I was thinking on protecting the loot statistics of creatures which drop Envelope from the Wizards and other event stuff until the The Colours of Magic is over, so people don't add special loot to statistics. It might also be possible to make the parser ignore the special loot when people send statistics. What do you guys think? —Arkshi (Talk | contribs) 18:55, March 14, 2012 (UTC)