Talk:Administrator Team

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Revamp - Template:Infobox Item
Hi guys,

Here's my first installment of a huge restructuring of our templates:
 * User:Sixorish/Item2
 * User:Sixorish/Item2/Axe (compare: Axe)
 * User:Sixorish/Item2/Pair of Soft Boots (compare: Pair of Soft Boots)

These templates are subject to change. I'm open to any suggestions.

-- Sixorish (talk) 07:37, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

I definately like the better way of using horizontal space, but I must admit it takes some time to find each piece of info (obviously because they are placed in a different spot and I'm not used to this). Do I have to reload css, because I see almost no layout atm? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:48, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

I can't imagine why the CSS wouldn't load for you. Here's what you should see:

The key features are:
 * Short key/value pairs are displayed in a table to the right. This allows more space for the other content, like notes, to flow around it.
 * Trade tables are displayed alongside each other. I think this is very important because currently you have to check the label, whereas people will eventually get a feel for buyfrom/sellto based on its position (left or right).
 * It uses more logical structure/elements. I think this is important because search engines will treat our content differently depending on the elements we use in our pages.

With all that said, I'm not an experienced web designer. I think the structure of the page is better but I don't have a good feel for what looks good and is intuitive to use. I got feedback from my friends and adjusted it until they were tired of telling me they didn't like it. I don't know if they genuinely hated it or if they were too adapted to the current layout which we've had for years. What I do know is: the current layout is inadequate, outdated, and doesn't address our needs since we've moved to Wikia (and began using their skin). -- Sixorish (talk) 14:12, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with your friends that it could use improvement, but this already is definitely way better than what we use now. -- Wouterboy (talk) 14:26, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

I agree that it is better use of space and it will take time to get used to. If you plan to try a few different layouts then we should do a poll to see which is most useful/appealing.

Besides structure my biggest concern would be that we still have a lot of information available. Your Soft Boots example currently does not have the classes/types, transferable, implemented version date, the tables for Boots and all Items, and maybe a few others. I know these can be added in anytime but i was curious if you left them out intentionally or not. I prefer to maintain all info but they do not need to be in the same structure, necessarily.

Side note that this reminded me of: At some point i want to add a basic template or update the current one for the Update/X.XX pages and redo the main Update page with a table using said template.

--DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 21:52, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks I added transferable and classification rows in the table. I decided not to include itemclass because primarytype implies (or is meant to imply) itemclass. The template could still use it 'behind the scenes' of course. However, maybe something to think about later is a change to the classifications, because they don't always have a shared concept ("Plants, Animal Products, Food and Drink" is a valid itemclass, when its name is just a list of all constituents...)

Another thing: this change will involve templating the droppedby parameter. I think this is the best way to go because it would enforce a standard to be used within the templates. This is the best option for creating a list instead of formatted links, other methods would involve complex string functions which gets hairy and is harder to use/maintain.

Also this new layout should be easier to adapt to changes, like mobile devices and skin adjustments. I thought Wikia was enabling a fluid layout on all wikis but that doesn't seem to have happened. If it does, we'll at least be more able to adapt to it.

-- Sixorish (talk) 08:12, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

I have the feeling you're in the right way, Six. Nice job so far! I'll try to catch you online.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) - 09:03, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

With Dragoes' help I have changed some of the styles. Please check the pages again and tell me what you think. The blue background seems to have made a huge difference. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:16, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

Looks A LOT better now, I'm starting to like it. Some questions: -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 13:39, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * What do you mean with "status: active"? That it is obtainable in game and not unobtainable or deprecated or from an event?
 * bought for has two dashes, shouldn't that be converted to something else (I think we have something else in the current template), some text I mean.
 * The text in the dropped by box is considerably larger than the other text, I don't like that (it gives emphasis, which is not needed or wanted)
 * also about the dropped by, what about the loot statistics data? Will the percent values be visible later on? (I imagine this javascript is set to an id/class you don't use currently).
 * I would like a background color behind the properties table to the right. Borders and/or background colors give structure to a page. It should be easy to distinguish the different blocks of information.
 * Maybe also a little background color (rounded) to the headers. Or a border bottom.

-- Sixorish (talk) 14:49, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, status will mean just that - if it's obtainable, if it's deprecated, or if it's a TS feature (like Test Server Assistant).
 * I'll remove that.
 * Yes the JS will need to be adjusted to account for the new structure. I'll look into that when the template is finalized/agreed on.
 * I've tried a few different colors but I can't find one that fits. I think the bold property names distinguish the table from the rest of the content.
 * I'll add a gold border to the bottom of each section header. However, I don't think any color really complements gold well to use as a background color.

Some ideas we had:

For items:
 * Add the following parameters:
 * pickupable (binary parameter; so we can merge Template:Infobox Item and Template:Infobox Object);
 * walkable (binary parameter);
 * market (binary parameter);
 * axeMod, clubMod, distMod, mlMod, swordMod, shieldMod, speedMod (skill modifiers);
 * immobile (binary parameter; if yes, diplay Moveable: no);
 * walkingspeed (% of base speed; for floors);
 * height, width (1=32px);
 * blocksmissile (binary parameter);
 * blockspath (binary parameter);
 * holdsliquid (binary parameter);
 * hangable (binary parameter);
 * rotatable (binary or 2/4?);
 * floorchange (binary parameter);
 * ingameheight (height value);
 * spriteID (to detect items sharing the same sprite);
 * effect (effect name; if an item displays an effect when used ingame, this info should be on the item page);
 * readable (binary parameter);
 * rewritable (binary parameter);
 * decaytime;
 * decayedfrom (item name);
 * decaysto (item name);
 * changesto (item name; if an item changes into another when "used");
 * displaytime (binary parameter; items that display Tibian time when "used").
 * Only display npcprice, npcvalue, stackable, transferable, value and weight if pickupable = yes;
 * Only display changesto, decaytime, decayedfrom, decaysto, destructable, displaytime, floorchange, hangable, holdsliquid, ingameheight, rotatable, walkingspeed, writable and skill modifiers if corresponding values exist;
 * Only display blocksmissile, blockspath, immobile and walkable values if pickupable = no;
 * Review all existing strings on attributes field and create new parameters;
 * Currently, attributes is displayed in parentheses after item name, this should be reviewed.

For monsters:
 * Add the following parameters:
 * blood (blood type: Fire, Poison, Bones, Blood?);
 * corpse (corpse name);
 * raceNumber;
 * outfit;
 * pushCreatures (binary parameter);
 * seeInvisible (binary parameter);
 * lifeDrainImmune (binary parameter);
 * paralyzeImmune (binary parameter);
 * rewardSystem (binary parameter).

For NPCs:
 * Add the following parameters:
 * outfit (in addition to race);
 * radius.

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) - 15:24, January 12, 2015 (UTC)


 * We can automatically add many of these parameters on pages that have an ID. Therefore, we should add ID parameter to the remaining items and to objects (this one might be tricky).
 * Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) - 02:32, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

--- Check out table headers which are links, like on Boat. The blue links are barely readable in contrast with the blue headers. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 03:29, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I changed the link text on the table headers. -- Sixorish (talk) 07:51, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Loot% on items and creatures should be working, but it depends on JS wgTitle (e.g. Axe vs. Sixorish/Item2/Axe) so it will not work on those pages until they go live.

Here's what will change:
 * Template:Infobox Item
 * Gains parameters:
 * article
 * plural
 * actualname
 * pickupable
 * Parameter changes:
 * droppedby must now use
 * sounds must now use
 * Template:Infobox Creature
 * Gains parameters:
 * article
 * plural
 * actualname
 * spawntype
 * Parameter changes:
 * loot must now use which should use
 * sounds must now use
 * Template:Infobox Spell
 * Gains parameters:
 * element
 * Parameter changes:
 * Template:Infobox NPC
 * Gains parameters:
 * posx
 * posy
 * posz
 * street
 * gender
 * race
 * Parameter changes:
 * sounds must now use

The pages that will be changed are: Other templates will be untouched for now. I'd like it if the item template could support objects so I have avoided them for the time being.
 * Template:Infobox Item &rarr; User:Sixorish/Item2 (Axe, Panda Teddy, Pair of Soft Boots, Magic Sulphur)
 * Template:Infobox Creature &rarr; User:Sixorish/Creature2 (Rat, Demon, Hellgorak)
 * Template:Infobox NPC &rarr; User:Sixorish/NPC2 (Sam)
 * Template:Infobox Spell &rarr; User:Sixorish/Spell2 (Find Person)

Are there any objections to this? If there are no objections I will work on a script to make all necessary changes before the templates can be used. The templates still need some edits to accommodate for transclusion but otherwise they are done.

-- Sixorish (talk) 13:15, January 16, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with the technical changes and I think the overall layout of the new templates looks good. Some minor tweaks in colors/layout are still possible, but that can be done in a later stage as well. Some remaining questions: -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 16:53, January 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * The sidebar disappeared, as well as the creatureclass or itemclass templates. Is that intended?
 * I'm a bit scared people will be mad about the change, is there anything we can do about that? Warn people a change is coming and ask for feedback? Do a poll, give the community a feeling they have a say? I don't know.

Yes there probably will be a bit of negativity, just because it's a change and nobody likes change. With that said I don't think a poll will be representative of the layout's value, because everyone will vote that they don't like it without considering the possible advantages of the change. Besides, we'd have to alter the main page for a poll because any other page will get very little attention.

But of course we should ask for the users' feedback. I'll work on TibiaWiki:Projects/2015 Layout Revamp so that we can link to it in the news and ask them to post feedback on the talk page. Other than that I don't see what we can do to get good feedback on the layout. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:56, January 17, 2015 (UTC)

Oh and the sidebar is removed because that was taking up a lot of space where we didn't want that. If we decide that pages need it, we can create a list on the bottom similar to the 'dropped by' list (3-4 columns). Personally, I almost never care for "related monsters" but maybe less experienced people might, I don't know. -- Sixorish (talk) 09:29, January 17, 2015 (UTC)

I've added to the bottom of the Creature2 template and adjusted the styles a bit. Let me know if it's acceptable or any improvements that can be made. Example: User:Sixorish/Creature2/Hellgorak. -- Sixorish (talk) 17:37, January 19, 2015 (UTC)

I will start converting creatures to the new system tomorrow if there are no objections. I'd like to get this done before February because I'll have a lot less time to work on big projects. -- Sixorish (talk) 02:58, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, go ahead. Apparently there is no feedback. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 08:50, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Today I used User:SixBot to convert all of the items and creatures to use. Items and creatures might look a little odd with the sound spacing until the infobox changes are applied. Tomorrow I will edit NPCs and apply the infobox changes. Then I'll work on a script to convert the loot and droppedby of creatures and items. Hopefully it will all be done before the 24th. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:42, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

I apologize. I forgot to log in my bot account before running the script so about 1/3 NPC edits were attributed to this account and they will show on the recent changes. Anyway I've edited all NPCs to convert the sounds, which means all pages should be using within their sounds parameters. What's left to do: -- Sixorish (talk) 03:46, January 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Replace Template:Infobox Item, Template:Infobox Creature, Template:Infobox NPC, Template:Infobox Spell.
 * Update  (creatures) and   (items)

Can you make blank edits on all affected pages (items, creatures, NPCs and spells), so they update to the new template?

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk  · Contribs  · Admins ) - 04:38, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Can you add the link to loot statistics back to Template:Infobox Creature?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 07:34, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think I can purge them through the API because we're using an outdated MW version, and I think SixBot is being rate limited with purging manually, or maybe the server has too much work to do. I'll have a look later, since most pages won't need purging at all by the time I'm done.

I've added the loot statistics link back to the creatures. Let me know if it looks odd to you. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:02, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, it looks good.

Can you fix ?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 08:15, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

What's wrong with it? -- Sixorish (talk) 08:18, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I was missing the message on Behavior section and didn't notice the Behavioral Properties. I have the feeling people will ignore a long list of properties. Maybe we should add some icons later?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 08:24, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I think people will eventually get accustomed to the list of properties, as long as it is organized. However, I've added the text back because I didn't mean to remove that. Also I adjusted the text that is displayed in the table when a "rough estimate" is provided instead of a value. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:40, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Looks really cool Sixorish! I created a feedback thread on tibia.com, here.

One thing I think could use a little improvement, are the weakness/strength % bars which show the percentage value. I like how they show in one glance the value because of their size, but it would be cool if they could somehow reprecent their element maybe? Or some other color tweak to show the gradient in values in colors (what you have in excel, where low values are red and high values green or something). I'm not sure what would look good. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 09:30, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for adding it back, Six. Good idea about the feedback thread, Bennie. I've thought the same about the gradient bars. Other thing we could do is to show the differences from the original/base hit. All bars would have their origins aligned, bars going to the left would be positive differences (>100%), and bars going to the left would be negative differences (<100%). However, I don't think it would fit in the template.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 09:47, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

One thing I would like point out is that the articles are missing in items' new flavourtexts. This results in lines such as "You see axe ring (axe fighting +4)." -- Wouterboy (talk) 13:27, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

@Bennie: I changed it to use +-% for the resistance bars. I'd like it if the properties table kept the absolute % (105% instead of +5%).

Regarding the colors: ''' I t h i n k a d d i n g o t h e r c o l o r s w i l l b e a n e y e s o r e. I p i c k e d b l u e b e c a u s e i t b l e n d s i n w e l l w i t h t h e b a c k g r o u n d a n d i t ' s n o t t o o e m p h a t i c, b u t i f w e h a d g r e e n f o r e a r t h a n d r e d f o r f i r e , i t w o u l d d i s t r a c t t h e u s e r f r o m t h e o t h e r c o n t e n t a n d / o r j u s t g e n e r a l l y f e e l o u t o f p l a c e .''' You can try experimenting with colors if you want but I don't think it's a good idea.

@Hunter

A "whisker box"-type of thing would be really cool but probably a lot less understood than the current graph. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:31, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

@Wouterboy

Thanks. Those pages are meant to have article/actualname/plural but the "look" template is supposed to guess when it isn't provided. I'll fix that tomorrow probably.

-- Sixorish (talk) 13:31, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Concerning item articles and actual names, did you use the list of limited items to automatically add those parameters?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 14:00, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I haven't added article/actualname/plural to any items yet. According to TibiaWiki:Data/Item/article the only item to have  is Panda Teddy. -- Sixorish (talk) 14:07, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Sixorish, why is the effect parameter not included on Spell pages? Just a mistake or an idea? Maybe colored resistance bars are not so good, but something with those icons maybe? What about this: User:Bennie/resistances? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:24, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Looks good Bennie, do you want to add it?

Also how is the background/border of the tabular data? -- Sixorish (talk) 14:29, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I added it. The border looks cool, the background color is too dark to comfortably read black text. A little lighter and then it'll be awesome. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:42, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Are you guys aware of any monster that has a life drain damage modifier different from +0% and -100%? Some creatures used to be immune to life drain even before the implementation of damage modifiers. I wonder if they have really changed it or if it's still an immune or not-immune case.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 14:55, January 21, 2015 (UTC) - NPC image on The Queen Of The Banshees (longest name I can think of) doesn't fit. #twbox-image max-width 64px can be removed to fix, but might push the title too much to the right. NPC images are kind of irregular because the names make the image dimensions non-standard. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:17, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I've removed the max-width/height from #twbox-image and added it to a.new descendents. I mostly wanted to limit the effects of missing orange image links to a 64x64px box. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:28, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Another question, see Lou Toose. If buysell is set to no, the div id=npc-trades should not be displayed, right? But here it does. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:40, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Actually it is meant to be displayed, except NPCs who don't buy/sell anything should have "--" as their buy/sell. I wanted to be very clear and say: no there isn't missing information, this NPC really doesn't buy or sell anything. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:47, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

I added a very small script to common.js which will sort the creature resistances from highest to lowest when the document is loaded. Is this better? I didn't want to at first because I was afraid the random positioning would be awkward. -- Sixorish (talk) 02:29, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think the sorting is really needed, with no sorting viewers can get used to always see fire as 4th bar for example. With sorting you'll always look at the top bar and then look which element it is.

I do like the ideas proposed on tibia.com by Olixin but also Waverly, to have the resistance bars go left or right from a fixed point, denoting weak or strong. I still sometimes confuse if + or - is weak or strong, having this left or right by default would be useful. What do you think? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:59, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

I think there are a few issues with this: -- Sixorish (talk) 12:34, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think the bar being far from its label will cause readability issues.
 * In such a graph we would still need to label which side is strong and which side is weak. This is why I prefer "absolute" percentages like 105% over relative percentages like +5%. If the main reason for preferring the outward-moving graph is because it's intuitive then it will be no more intuitive than if we colored bars red/green (for 99%- and 100%+) because that's the only "intuitive" feature of the graph.
 * Strong to is bound to 100% (immune at 100% resistance) while weak to is unbound. Since we work in a limited space we would use percentages to determine where the center (0) is. I don't think it will be intuitive at all if 0 is not near the center as it would be for many stronger creatures.

Mm okay. One other thing Creature Artworks are removed from the creature infobox. I kinda liked them, can they come back? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 13:53, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

I'll work out a place we can put it. I think it will go nicely in the notes next to the tibia.com description of pages. -- Sixorish (talk) 07:25, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Ok cool. Some stuff: -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 22:18, January 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * droppedby is literally included with 3 curly brackets if empty, e.g. Fireball Rune
 * The related items section lists give a dpl warning if no results are found (noresultsheader could be filled)

Is there a way you could add some 'special' u-words to the template to be recognised as needing the 'a' as article (for items such as Used Candelabrum and Unity Charm)? The template isn't doing this yet, I noticed. Also, do all plurals need to be supplied manually? -- Wouterboy (talk) 10:52, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

This information is stored on the item pages now, it's easier that way. I had User:SixBot add article, actualname and plural params to the item pages automatically, using educated guesses as to their value (except plural which I didn't set yet, because I'm not sure how the plurals should work). -- Sixorish (talk) 11:18, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

Re: concept art - what is the plan if in the future a creature is depicted in multiple creature artworks? The old method tested if a certain filename existed which wouldn't work if there were multiple. -- Sixorish (talk) 17:24, January 29, 2015 (UTC)

We have a similar case with Yalaharian Outfits. There are 3 outfit cards for the same outfit. makes we manually add artworks. But I don't think it's an elegant solution.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 23:41, January 29, 2015 (UTC)

I've receive some feedback online. Since the title above the resistance bars is Resistances, they should be consistent: positive values meaning the creature is strong to that element, while negative values meaning it's weak to it. Either the title should be changed (to something like Element Modifiers) or the bars should be changed. Also, to make it clearer, instead of displaying +##% and -##% it could display ##% weak and ##% strong. 0% could simply be displayed as Neutral, and 100% strong as Immune.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 02:11, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

Updates/Pre-6.0 in the items dpl list weight and droppedby are displayed as parameters for Barrel (which doesn't have a value for these parameters). I'm not sure how to fix this. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 13:58, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

It should now display nothing if the weight is not present. -- Sixorish (talk) 22:34, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

Outfiter
Hey!

Could you guys change ids of 3 mounts into names in Outfiter? I have seen it has been updated, but they remain untouched. I assume it would require only: Replacing 685 with Shadow_Hart, 686 with Black_Stag and 687 with Emperor_Deer in Outfiter/Code_Template & Outfiter/Code plus renaming pages/editing first lines(just id values) here - 685, here - 686 and here - 687. --Cauli92 (talk) 15:48, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

I renamed the 3 pages but not sure if deleting and creating them fresh is necessary or not. They are not loading in the 3 browsers i tried, but that happened last time i added an outfit so we shall see when the server catches up. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 03:32, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

It seems to be working correctly now, thanks a lot! -- Cauli92 (talk) 15:41, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Note that the id on each page had to be changed from the number to the name (e.g. 686 > Black_Stag), as done by Sixorish. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 17:23, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I know, I did mention that in my first message about it, it's right after renaming the pages. -- Cauli92 (talk) 18:01, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Updates/8.54
Can you guys check what's wrong with Updates/8.54? On Monobook, the logo is misplaced and there's that "Node-count limit exceeded" error. On Wikia skin, it doesn't even load after last edit.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 15:00, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Um, I didn't think this would cause a problem. Apparently the new templates on our pages (Template:Dropped By and Template:Loot Table) are adding a lot of preprocessor nodes and it stops expanding templates when that limit has been exceeded... I'll have a look at it tomorrow. -- Sixorish (talk) 16:30, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

I'm honestly confused here. On User:Sixorish/bottleneck/items I tested this and the current revision "fixes" the problem by changing how DPL collects the data. If you use a phantom template (Template:Infobox Item/Update) it adds almost no preprocessor nodes whereas if you instruct DPL to get the data itself using Template:DPLPARM Item.include it uses more than the server can handle. -- Sixorish (talk) 06:08, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

I've applied the changes to the DPL parameter templates for items. The page limits are now at: However, this update page takes a lot of time to render. Not sure if it was like that before. It might just be because that update introduced a lot of things. -- Sixorish (talk) 07:28, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Mm, it is fast enough for me. Btw, the arena bosses (and probably all creatures with no loot have an empty Template:Loot Table in their loot parameter. E.g. Menace. Maybe fill it with two dashes and display "No loot." or something instead? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 10:51, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

It's fast when rendering after it's been cached. But update pages are meant to be edited a lot (mostly before/shortly after they're released) so I'd like to think performance when editing is a big deal. -- Sixorish (talk) 11:07, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

As for the "No loot." thing, I will add a message for the time being. In the future I'd like to code something to make adding loot easier: a JS-based loot adder/remover which is why I wanted all creatures to have. But for the time being we have other things to work on. -- Sixorish (talk) 11:12, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

The same error is happening on List of Creatures.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 23:39, January 28, 2015 (UTC)

Rookgaard has also been affected by the template changes.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 23:26, February 1, 2015 (UTC)

Okay I'm stupid. The dropped by template transcludes all the creatures on that list for no reason, so instead of fixing the problem (which I thought was a limit we just had to deal with) the problem can be solved by removing that transclusion, since it only uses the creature's name. -- Sixorish (talk) 06:10, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

TibiaWiki:Data
Hi guys,

Does anyone here have any interest in using TibiaWiki:Data?

These pages contain static data from our templates and is updated by User:SixBot. I've also added a tabular version which can be found by appending "/table" to page names (I may not update the tabular versions as often because it takes a bit longer).

These pages could be used for fast verification of the validity of our pages, for example I found and fixed this problem after checking the data.

Basically it's a quicker way to check the values of a lot of parameters. Each page contains data for 1 parameter (I don't think people want to download the entire wiki's data for just 2 pieces of info).

Here are some data pages for example:
 * TibiaWiki:Data/Item/npcvalue, and /table.
 * TibiaWiki:Data/Item/sellto, and /table.

This combination of data could be used for Calculators, currently it uses a parsed version of a DPL list which is time-consuming to update. Of course it has applications. But does anyone actually have an interest in using it? If so then I can write some help pages & add the script to get this data to Common.js. Since I'll be studying in February I won't have a lot of time to use it myself, so, if nobody else wants to use it I just won't update it. -- Sixorish (talk) 12:55, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think I'll use that in the near future, but the possibility looks promising! Good luck with your studying ;) -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:07, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

It seems promising, indeed.

By the way, have you guys noticed that Calculators isn't working properly?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 00:26, January 26, 2015 (UTC)

Hm, I thought it was just the images but the whole thing is broken. Well, I fixed the images which was bugged because of a Wikia change to image URLs, and I'll look at the rest of it when I have some more time. -- Sixorish (talk) 02:54, January 26, 2015 (UTC)

More bot edits
SixBot is currently editing every item page with a single  to add the following parameters: He will also check and fix anything else that is verifiable on the dat, like stackable and lightcolor/radius. -- Sixorish (talk) 14:46, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * (if fluid container)
 * (if immobile)
 * (if hangable)
 * (if blocks missiles)
 * (if blocks path)
 * (if walkable)
 * (if usable)
 * (if rotatable)
 * (if has map color)
 * (if has map color)

Due to a bug SixBot wasn't adding or fixing some parameters, like usable. I've also added some checks, e.g. SixBot will remove hangable if it is not hangable, remove volume if it is not a container, and others. He'll also be adding a new parameter,, to all items. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:00, January 29, 2015 (UTC)

Had to stop SixBot to check out a possible bug.
 * Scroll has the wrong itemid. (should be 2815)

Will resume editing and fix this one later. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:10, January 29, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, 347 is Scroll (TBI)'s ID.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 13:19, January 29, 2015 (UTC)

Updating Data/Item/* and rerunning the script to fix some bugs that occurred before. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:47, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * Readable is gone. Writable (wiki) = readable (dat reader), rewritable (wiki) = writable (dat reader), I didn't realize this.
 * Fixing errors caused by assuming readable, writable and rewritable were separate.
 * Anything else that the bot picks up that it missed before.

What an odd word "marketable", I didn't know it really existed. But it's cool you're adding it, I would be interested in a list of items which can't be traded on the market. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 09:13, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

Marketable means something other than what we're using for, but it's understandable. If we decide something else is better it can be changed, but for now, no reason to stall edits just because something may not be perfect.

I think I am done with mass edits for the time being. Here are some things I'd like to do in the future though:
 * Order parameters within the source of pages (there are a lot of new parameters).
 * Merge items and objects.
 * Fix any inconsistent parameter spacing.
 * Create rules for parameters, e.g. armor can only be a number, and generate regular reports of invalid parameters so that we can find potential issues.
 * Upload files with "Item ID x.gif" for all item IDs, as a reference to upload a file under Item Name.gif

I will run the script maybe once a week or on request to update any info with changes/added IDs. So, if you go looking for IDs, feel free to save time by ignoring things that can be obtained from the dat.

-- Sixorish (talk) 09:47, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

Creature Descriptions
Errors: Hi,

I will add creature descriptions to our pages taken from tibia.com; however, since they don't have the same naming conventions as we do for the website, there are likely to be a few errors in my automatic guesses. I would appreciate if anyone could scan the list for errors. -- Sixorish (talk) 10:32, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

I... I don't really know what you mean. I hope this is helpful:

Errors:
 * cultacolyte (instead of 'acolyteofthecult');
 * frogazure (instead of 'azurefrog');
 * wraith (instead of 'betrayedwraith');
 * butterflypurple (instead of 'butterflies');
 * charlatan (instead of 'corymcharlatan');
 * skirmisher (instead of 'corymskirmisher');
 * vanguard (instead of 'corymvanguard');
 * cultpriest (instead of 'enlightenedofthecult');
 * lostdwarfbasher (instead of 'lostbasher');
 * lostdwarfhusher (instead of 'losthusher');
 * earthelementalmassive (instead of 'massiveearthelemental');
 * energyelementalmassive (instead of 'massiveenergyelemental');
 * hellfireelemental (instead of 'massivefireelemental');
 * waterelementalmassive (instead of 'massivewaterelemental');
 * cultadept (instead of 'adeptofthecult');
 * cultnovice (instead of 'noviceofthecult');
 * seacrest (instead of 'seacrestserpent');
 * viscountmanbat (instead of 'viciousmanbat');
 * wormpriest (instead of 'wormpriestess').

Also:
 * In the list of butterflies in the first column the Butterfly (Purple) is excluded.
 * The Novice of the Cult is listed twice (the first time followed by 'cultadept', and the second time by 'cultnovice'.
 * Perhaps change 'Enraged Crystal Golems' in the second column to 'Crystal Golems'?
 * The plural of 'Enlightened of the Cult' should simply be 'Enlightened of the Cult'.

Sorry I guess that is a little confusing. Others: -- Sixorish (talk) 12:24, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * The errors you listed are not errors, that's the name of the "race" you would put in tibia.com to get their profile, e.g. http://www.tibia.com/library/?subtopic=creatures&race=cultacolyte. Nothing will be changed in that column because that column is just the name for linking purposes.
 * Fixed.
 * Novices being listed twice is indeed an error, thanks.
 * This is the title according to tibia.com. In the past I think it was Crystal Golems but it was changed.
 * This is also the title according to tibia.com, so it should be consistent.

Ahh, alright. I thought the idea was to have the names in the Race URL column updated so they reflect how the wiki names the creatures. On another note, are you sure we should list Damaged Crystal Golem as a creature fitting the description of Enraged Crystal Golem? Most of that description can be applied to the Enraged ones only. Also, I think that if we take over 'Enlighteneds of the Cult' as our plural, we will look very unprofessional. Cipsoft took it a little too far by pluralising an adjective (seriously Cip?). Anyway, for some reason they use correct plurals in the actual description, but in the two stats paragraphs they don't. -- Wouterboy (talk) 12:44, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

Maybe you're right about the crystal golems.

It can be changed on our part if we desire it, but does it affect our professional image or CipSoft's? As said, this will only be used to display: "&mdash;Tibia Website - Enlighteneds Of The Cult". Most likely CipSoft will fix it sooner or later. If it is preferred we can just have our plurals displayed and not worry about adding a parameter for the "bestiary title". -- Sixorish (talk) 13:01, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

I thought we would take over all of their plurals and therefore look unprofessional together with them, sorry. Now that I understand it correctly it sounds good (and yeah, I also don't see the necessity of adding a "bestiary title" parameter). -- Wouterboy (talk) 13:29, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

I'll add them all to the creature pages shortly. Damaged Crystal Golem will not get one. This will introduce the parameters  (cultacolyte) and   (the description) to Template:Infobox Creature, which will display the descriptions in a standardized way. Since the only opinion I've received was in favor of dropping the  parameter (Acolytes Of The Cult) they will not use that and prefer our plural, actualname or name parameters. -- Sixorish (talk) 14:35, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

Okay User:SixBot is adding the bestiary information. I made some changes so that the text doesn't consume too much space, because some pages, like Rot Elemental and Medusa, have a lot of text and I think we shouldn't push the other content down too far. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:41, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

Actually I've gone ahead and removed the "title" completely so that it just says "&mdash;Tibia Library". None of our parameters are good for referencing the Tibia library:
 * name can have disambiguation terms, e.g. Fish (Creature).
 * actualname and plural are lowercase, which looks out of place.

Tomorrow I will look at ordering our template parameters. -- Sixorish (talk) 16:05, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

I've just reported the "enlighteneds" case as well as the name "crystal golems" on Enraged Crystal Golems page. I don't think they would change URLs, so I won't report them.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 02:38, February 1, 2015 (UTC)

Redirecting plurals to articles
Hi guys. I told Hunter to post here but he seems to be putting that off.

Another fansite administrator would like for us to redirect plurals of creature names to that creature's page. So for example enlighteneds of the cult would redirect to Enlightened of the Cult. They want this so that they can link to us without having to create e.g. a table to translate kill statistics name -> wiki name.

Are there any objections to this? Normally I would be against it simply because normal users may never use these redirects, but on the other hand it is unlikely that any other pages will take use the plural names.

If there are no objections I'll set up the redirects using User:SixBot.

-- Sixorish (talk) 08:07, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Here are the pages that SixBot will edit if we agree to this: User:Sixorish/Redirects. On the bottom is a list of pages that won't be edited as they already contain articles: redirects or otherwise. -- Sixorish (talk) 09:11, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Agreed.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 12:22, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Ok no problem, never any objections for fansites linking to us. Funny you use the Enlightened of the Cult example, with the "wrong" plural. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:29, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I realized that when I was writing it. Decided to go with it because it conveys the idea well: the redirection doesn't depend on what the plural should be, just what the kill statistics calls them (because they are indexing kill stats and want to link to us without fixing plurals). -- Sixorish (talk) 12:56, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

I've done what I can automatically.
 * Amazons
 * Bats
 * Bears
 * Bonelords
 * Demons
 * Dogs (redirects to Canines)
 * Dragons
 * Dwarfs (redirects to Dwarves, not Dwarf)
 * Eggs (redirects to Egg, not Egg (Creature))
 * Elves
 * Fish (plural of Fish (Creature))
 * Ghosts
 * Goblins
 * Hydras
 * Minotaurs
 * Monks
 * Necromancers
 * Orcs
 * Pillars
 * Rabbits (redirects to Glires)
 * Rats (redirects to Glires)
 * Salamanders
 * Skeletons
 * Snakes (redirects to Serpents)
 * Toads (redirects to Frogs)
 * Tortoises
 * Trolls
 * Wolves (redirects to Canines)
 * Wyrms
 * Wyverns

These pages were not edited and do not redirect to the appropriate title, but all others do. I don't know what we should do about these. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:57, March 13, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Six. I'll talk with Sir Dzidek (Guildstats admin) about these cases, perhaps he can manually fix the links.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 03:46, March 15, 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism Mar-2015
We have had some "heavy duty" vandalism recently. I remember reading that something was disabled for the contest we had in December but i cannot recall what was done. Does anyone remember and can they turn it back on/request Wikia to turn it back on? --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 17:20, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

We allowed anniversary contestants to immediately upload a picture after account creation. Hunter has already requested this be reverted, however. -- Wouterboy (talk) 17:32, March 23, 2015 (UTC)

I just noticed when I made the new page "Nanny from Hell" when I created it. It did not give a warning message on top that you get when non-whitelisted people edit excisting wiki's (example: Updates/10.78). Maybe this could be used as a possible exploid by those hacker attempts. -- Tustanuxo (talk) 11:57, May 12, 2015 (UTC)

Vandal:Brazoleq12
The user Brazoleq12 ( talk &bull; contribs &bull; [ bot contribs] &bull; [ block log] &bull; block ) has vandalized. Please review their edits and take appropriate actions if necessary.

Sincerely,

User:Cauli92

Vandal: Yorickkk & Norbertino1
The user Yorickkk ( talk &bull; contribs &bull; [ bot contribs] &bull; [ block log] &bull; block ) has vandalized. Please review their edits and take appropriate actions if necessary.

and his other acc, User:Norbertino1

Sincerely,

User:Cauli92

New Admins
Welcome to the team Cauli and Vapaus! :)

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 00:05, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

Congratulations to both of you! -- Wouterboy (talk) 10:52, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks a lot guys, I hope I will cope with the admin tasks and not disappoint TibiaWiki!

-- Cauli92 (talk) 13:13, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much,I will try to do my best :) ~ Vapaus (talk) 14:17, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

Whitelisting?
moved from User_Talk:Cauli92 on May 8, 2015

How do I get whitelisted? I've been here for quite awhile now...

Kurrygrodan (talk) 15:56, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

Hey Kurrygrodan,

Unfortunately, I'm unable to help you in this matter as I have joined the team very recently and would prefer to not make this kind of decissions yet, as I'm not quite sure how they determine who's worthy of being whitelisted(even though your profile looks good enough for me). For that reason, I'm moving your question to Talk:Administrator Team page - the best place to ask this of question. Here, your problem has highest chances to be adressed by other Team members after one has failed.

-- Cauli92 (talk) 17:11, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

Spell changes
Hey guys,

Today I used User:SixBot to make the following changes to spell articles:
 * Some old pages used "Subclass" instead of "subclass". I fixed these.
 * Some old pages used "graphic" and almost all pages used "learnfrom", neither of which are used, so I removed them.
 * All our pages used "expLvl" which is quite nonstandard so I changed it to "levelrequired" to be in line with items' levelrequired.

I have searched for things that would break as a result of these changes, and corrected the ones that I found. Let me know if there are any broken pages as a result of these changes.

I will probably make additional changes to spells soon, e.g. removing MagLvl from spells. -- Sixorish (talk) 05:47, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Changes made today:
 * MagLvl - gone; magic levels haven't applied to spells for years.
 * hidetemplate - only spell that used it was Convince Creature. Has no use now really.
 * Picked up some minor errors thanks to TibiaWiki:Data.

Some other questions/thoughts: -- Sixorish (talk) 11:04, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * How to give cooldown/cooldowngroup to deprecated spells? There was always a cooldown, the global exhaust system.
 * Should we have named spell categories? (cooldowngroup)
 * The parameters "type" and "subclass" seem a bit confusing.
 * Type is either "Instant", "Rune" or blank; basically a binary parameter. This is in line with Tibia's "Type".
 * Subclass is either "Attack", "Field", "Healing", "Supply" or "Support". Originally this was supposed to mirror the Tibia website's "Group" which has Attack, Healing, Support. Then we added Field, Supply, and now it forms its own standard. It doesn't even follow the website's standard for attack spells: Heavy Magic Missile should be "support" - all runes are "Support" on Tibia's website but our attack rune spells are considered to be attack spells.

History section on content pages
Hey guys. I'd like your opinion on adding a history section to pages. Currently we link to history subpages. Under the new system the subpages would stay for ease of editing but they would be included on the pages. The format of these history pages would be very different. We would need a standard for formatting them.

I have a working example of what I'd like to see: A Sweaty Cyclops. Notable changes: Of course this would be a long-term change. All history pages would need to be adjusted. The sooner we agree on a format the sooner we can get it done. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:49, May 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * History template gone.
 * Formatting: bullet points for core changes and indenting for elaboration.
 * Headings: no more "Origin", "Ice protection" etc. headings; the headings currently describe the changes (what), but they should describe the version (when). If Pair of Earmuffs receives another ice protection adjustment where would that go? Versions that introduce changes to an item should have a unique header.

I think we can all agree the history pages didn't work out what was intended when the format was created in the first page. The idea to have an origin for every history page wasn't really usable, either "introduced in update xx" (but we have implemented for this). Only a few pages have interesting origin stories.

So I agree a change is needed. Moving the content to the main articles seems reasonable, given that most history pages are very short right now, it saves a click if you don't have to navigate to them. I would suggest just completely moving their content instead of including (this would increase speed? or it doesn't matter after it's cached?).

It's a big project indeed, if every edit would be needed to be done manually. But I agree it's needed. I agree with your format, although I can imagine the bullet point list looks a little technical to most people. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:00, May 27, 2015 (UTC)

We should always think on what is the best for our visitors to read and to edit. Thus, moving the history to the content page seems the best option.

Thanks Six for putting time and energy on this!

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 02:22, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

Transferable
Hey guys, Sorry for a newbie question, but is it possible to make a specific item non-transferable, even thought it is pickable? If yes, how do I do it?

Cauli92 (talk) 21:03, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

Since the template treats every item that can be picked up as transferable, I guess you should add specific exceptions to this rule in the template in order to block this package-deal (personally I wouldn't know how to do this, though). -- Wouterboy (talk) 21:13, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, that's what I was thinking when all my attempts failed and I was not really willing to try and edit infobox templates as I'm totally green in this kind of stuff - I would probably break something or make a dozen of unnecessary edits/rerolls :p

Uhm, however, I was going to ask if someone who's capable of handling this could add exceptions in a free time for these items smuggled from Dawnport:
 * The Chiller
 * The Scorcher
 * Lightest Missile Rune
 * Light Stone Shower Rune

But then I've checked Spellbook of the Novice and apparently, you can transfer it. As it makes no sense for it to be the only smuggled item that is visible in market and can be transfered, I assume it was just overlooked and should rather be reported by a tutor. I've asked a friend to do i already, so it's wisest to just wait and see to avoid unnecessary work.

Cauli92 (talk) 22:17, June 5, 2015 (UTC)

Not sure if I understand the problem. These items are impossible to obtain on the mainland, I presume? Our list is based on an official list provided by CipSoft. If CipSoft's internal list permits transferal then it can be transferred, unless there are inconsistencies of course. Transferable does not deal with whether or not you can actually obtain that item to perform the transfer.

Am I mistaking your intention?

As for the way to change it: it's all handled by the template Template:Transfer Restrictions and Template:Transfer Impossible. It was planned to add a parameter to items but since this data is given to us by CipSoft there's little reason to have it on the pages themselves. -- Sixorish (talk) 04:37, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

They are impossible to obtain right now, yes. They were supposed to be unobtainable at all, also yes. But as Cipsoft didn't do great job with testing Dawnport, there were multiple ways of getting these items to mainland and Cipsoft wasn't in a big rush to fix it, so now some players own plenty of them.

''Sharon: Oh, no, no, no, I'm sorry, but any the chiller has to stay on this world. Please check all of your depots as well as your inventory and make sure there's no the chiller to be found.''

Cauli92 (talk) 08:47, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

Oh... that's odd. CipSoft provides us with a list of items that are transferable but with restrictions, but they don't inform us what is not transferable. I have a feeling that you should be allowed to transfer these items. I can't see why not. But, for the meantime, I have added the 4 items you linked to Template:Transfer Impossible. Thanks -- Sixorish (talk) 10:56, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for adding them in there, I will try to keep an eye on the case and possibly remove them if necessary. Btw, why is that trunk listed? Is it being an example or is there something specific about this item? It's not pickable, so it should appear as non-transferable as well.

Cauli92 (talk) 17:04, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

Some non-pickupable items are on that list because we only recently added the pickupable parameter. Before then the template didn't care for it and assumed all items were transferable unless they were on that list. So these non-pickupable items (football, wooden trunk) are on the list. They could safely be removed, Wooden Trunk isn't even transcluding the template so it obviously isn't being checked. -- Sixorish (talk) 03:32, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

I'll ask for the official list of non-transferable items. Thanks for bringing this up.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 05:09, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

Item Template
Some issues:
 * Is there a way to add some sort of 'hidden attributes' parameter to the template? Consumables such as the Veggie Casserole boost skills, but this does not become clear from their 'look text'. Treating these boosts as normal attributes therefore renders the 'look text' incorrect.
 * As of right now, the 'look texts' on rings with attributes make no sense. Attributes of rings are only visible when you put them on, but then the rings are not brand-new anymore. Easy fix, though: the actual duration can replace the 'brand-new', as it's possible to make a ring show its maximum duration by immediately looking at it after putting it on.
 * The above means that the 'duration' parameter would no longer need to appear in the right-hand box.
 * Also regarding duration, does anyone know how this is shown in-game for non-rings such as Fiery Rainbow Shield and Full Helmet of the Ancients? If this is different from how it is shown for rings, things will get tricky.
 * To be in complete concordance with the in-game 'look texts', all items providing protection (or taking some away) need to have 'protection' in front of their first resistance text, as in-game it is shown as e.g. "You see a terra hood (Arm:5, protection earth +4%, fire -5%)." --Wouterboy (talk) 16:00, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

I can't really help you on technical side unfortunatelly, as I'm not any good with it, but as I'm editing the page, least I should do is to provide HotA ingame description:

19:01 You see a helmet of the ancients (Arm:8). It weighs 27.60 oz. The gem of the helmet is burned out and should be replaced.

19:01 You see a helmet of the ancients (Arm:11). It weighs 27.60 oz. The gem is glowing with power.

Can't confirm Rainbow shield, but a friend has told me time isn't displayed in there as well. Cauli92 (talk) 17:04, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Is it also not displayed when looking at them while wearing them? -- Wouterboy (talk) 17:37, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

Correct, the text is exactly the same whether you wear it or keep it in your backpack.

Cauli92 (talk) 17:40, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, thanks again. That means we will also need some sort of 'hidden duration' parameter. -- Wouterboy (talk) 18:01, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

-- Sixorish (talk) 03:14, June 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * On-use effects are somewhat different and indeed they should have a new parameter. Maybe |onuse= and the value being the same as the attribs (e.g. +5 distance fighting)?
 * The rings are not something we can deal with easily. We could add the time to the look text which might be a good idea.
 * As for removing it from the right table I don't think that's a good idea because the look text is primarily decoration, the table conveys a lot of information that's already in the look text, and that was by design.
 * Answered by Cauli. These two items do not preserve their time while unequipped. They decay just as any other item like torches or crystal pedestals. Duration is the time it takes to expire while equipped. The template partially supports "decaysto" and "decaytime" which should be used for all items that independently change IDs after x time, such as corpses, Crystal Pedestals, activated dolls and fansite items. These two items do not preserve their state while unequipped, so they should have decaysto= decaystime= not duration=.
 * I'll add the text 'protection'.


 * Yup, that should work just fine.
 * Sounds like a plan.
 * Didn't know this is intended, sorry.
 * Hadn't even thought of the non-preservation, but if this can be solved the way you decribed there's no problem.
 * Awesome.

However, I found something strange. There's a useless 'mlrequired' parameter integrated into the box for Spellbooks (but also for the five Rainbow Shields and some other items, presumably because of the word 'magic' in their 'look text'). There exist no spellbooks which require a certain magic level to wield, though, so now it just shows 'Unknown' for every one of them. -- Wouterboy (talk) 11:28, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

My bad, the magic level row was being included if it met "vocrequired > 0" which made no sense... I fixed that. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:46, June 7, 2015 (UTC)

I think we're missing something. Some rings change their sprite (thus, their ID) while they're equipped. That's when the attributes and timer (you can call it either 'decaytime' or 'duration') are activated. When they are unequipped, ID changes back to "normal", attributes are not in effect anymore and timer stops.

If I'm not missing anything, we should create pages for the equipped items and we could use 'decaytime'. Just like 'decaysto' and 'decaysfrom', we'd need a parameter to inform that the item changes into other item while equipped. Although, it might be tricky to get the 'decaytime' parameter from the 'whileequipped' item to use it in the non-equipped item page. Perhaps, the best solution would be an additional parameter (like 'duration') for this kind of items only.

Does anyone remember an item that decays only while equipped but doesn't change ID while equipped?

Need for a different parameter:

I remember when I was making some tests with branch that it disappeared from my inventory as soon as I logged in. This indicates there's a timer parameter that runs even if the player is offline. I have the impression I've heard of server-based timers before, but can't remember other examples/items now. I believe CipSoft uses the same parameter when they want to delete event-items like some Christmas items and bug-items such as Trashed Draken Boots by setting this parameter to 1 or 0 second.

We could either use a different timer parameter for this kind of item (like branch) or use an auxiliary parameter like 'serverbasedtimer=yes'.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 05:09, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

Bag with Stolen Gold is probably the item you're looking for. Also, I agree we could use separated pages for active rings.

Cauli92 (talk) 09:38, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

I think it's important that the base ring keep the duration. Otherwise people would have to look up both articles to get the information they need... That's the problem then, how do you do that while satisfying the other "requirements" (fixed look text)? -- Sixorish (talk) 10:22, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, we could use 'decaytime' for active rings and 'duration' for base rings. That's what I meant before.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 15:09, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

But decaytime doesn't display when looking at an item so it wouldn't work. Best option would probably be to have 3 articles: one combined, one unequipped, one equipped. Seems like overkill but it's the only way to get the best of both worlds. -- Sixorish (talk) 15:20, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

Wouldn't it work with an auxiliary parameter like durationlookmsg=yes?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 15:33, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

Was just about to suggest that solution. This way, we would only need two pages, and we would have a situation similar to Illumination. -- Wouterboy (talk) 15:40, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

Object -> Item
Let me know if there's anything else that needs to be changed in the conversion... -- Sixorish (talk) 15:36, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

That sounds terrible, in my opinion. They seem to me to be two entirely different domains. More similar than e.g. Creatures and Items, but still. Pretending them to be the same by categorising them together is ludicrous. -- Wouterboy (talk) 16:16, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

They follow the same mechanics. They might seem to be different domains but they aren't. Our definition of an object is arbitrary and in some cases we've even found ourselves confused, such as with Footballs. In the game files all that separates an item from an object is a single boolean that says an item is immobile. And that's probably not even accurate for some items.

With that said, I do agree that there is usually a big distinction between movable and non-movable items. Users need to be able to make this distinction under the new system. That's what we have to figure out before we transition - how do we make this distinction. For a lot of item categories this will just mean additional classes. In that way almost all item categories won't even be affected (e.g. "Ground Tiles" might still be a separate class from all other item classes). Where the categories do overlap we could create separate tables e.g. "Movable Weapons" or "Immobile Weapons" or "Scenery Weapons"... -- Sixorish (talk) 16:37, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

Interesting discussion, I looked up the beginning of this: in 2007 User:Genosonic suggested to make the Objects page, he suggested this here "[objects] that are not considered as items because they are not movable". So that's the fundamental assumption we always used. There are of course exceptions, which make the distinction less clear. However, User:Whitelaces argues something I think we all agree upon "I agree that we need to keep them [objects] separate from the current list of items to avoid clutter and confusion".

At this point I'm not 100% sure if I'm in favor or against this change.. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 17:01, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

I guess it would be most practical to have three sections, one for Items(Mobile and pickable), one for Objects(Mobile, but not pickable) and one for Scenery(Immobile and not pickable). However, from technical side, Six' proposal would probably be the best choice and while it may result in strange display of things, I bet it could make things easier for all of us. Therefore I'm also in doubt.

Cauli92 (talk) 17:15, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

PS: Notes2 serve a really good purpose on lists, so there's definitelly a reason to keep them.

Oh, sorry, just read second reply from Sixorish properly, if we could have it like he explained, one template, but three categories that would separate mobile, pickable etc, then I defintielly side with his vision. It's going to take a lot time sorting all the categories, though.

Cauli92 (talk) 17:20, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

At least that sounds more feasible, but I still have the idea you're underplaying the profundity of the difference. Moreover, some objects would easily fit in item categories, but not all. This would result in a page where some categories only list items, some categories only list objects, and some categories list both (which is terribly illogical). Tiles, for instance, would only list under 'Scenery', rendering the others empty (which furthermore looks dumb, because it is pretty obvious that tiles can only be scenery in the first place).

Oh, and Cauli, I think Six said we had no reason to keep 'notes2' because placing the information one wants to exclude from lists between 'noincludes' does the same thing. -- Wouterboy (talk) 17:48, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

It's not that I'm underplaying the profundity of the difference, I do realise there's a fair line between our current definition of Objects and our current definition of Items. I'm just looking at the "Item" word from totally different angle right now, I see it more as a huge group~(simply - everything that has a form, but doesn't 'live' is an item) containing each of these three categories(currently we have only two - items and objects) which are yet to be named. Two of them would "replace" our current Items and Objects and one would play a role of Scenery. I hope you understand what I mean, I'm not the best at explaining my point of view :<

I imagine that every current category, like Quest Items or Animals would contain three separate lists(if there's at least one fitting item in each of them, else list of this category shouldn't appear at all) - for each of these 'prime' categories explained above.

Thanks for clarification about notes2, there's still so much I have to learn about wiki. :p

Cauli92 (talk) 18:48, June 13, 2015 (UTC)

Having 2 family categories of items, one for mobile and the other for immobile items, has always been confusing.
 * That caused the existence of "hybrids" (mobile, but non-pickupable) which are mixed with mobile items in tables, although they don't use the same parameters such as weight and trade parameters (not to mention the display issues addressed only with the recent layout revamp);
 * The transition between them is time-consuming and requires extra attention, e.g we had to [ change the infobox template used in Shovel (Object)] while Cip changed only the binary parameter for being immobile, as Sixorish explained before.

My opinion:
 * They should indeed use the same infobox template.
 * The displayed properties should depend upon the parameter each item has, i.e do not display weight if it's immobile (this is already being done).
 * Concerning merging item categories, I can see pages such as Furniture listing pickupable and non-pickupable items in different tables (to accommodate the different parameters), however I don't see pages like Quest Items and Quest Objects being merged. They have distinct meanings in my opinion and they are both very extensive. This example might be the most controversial case of all since there is no consensus about the definition of Quest Items yet (the introductory text doesn't justify all items in this category; also, I don't recall someone defending the idea that items like Scimitar and Red Apple should be in this category), but this is another discussion. Therefore, I suggest that every merging case should be discussed beforehand, individually.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 06:00, June 14, 2015 (UTC)

So, am I right in saying the only issue in merging items and objects is that of categorization? Merging items doesn't have to mean merging categories. Items and objects share a lot of variables and they follow the same game mechanics. Using infobox item for objects as well means that we will be more prepared for future changes, and that we'd have to maintain one less template. For instance, CipSoft could bend the rules of an item so that e.g. you might have an immovable but equippable weapon in the future (say, one that must be broken to be removed). That would be an object by our definition. Now we need to add the weapon stats to the object infobox and because it's an object it would be excluded from our item lists, even though I think we would want the opposite; and because they use different templates, DPL would not be able to read parameters from it. Merging items and objects solves all these potential problems. The only thing that it doesn't solve is the categorization issue which is arbitrary and can be decided on a per-item basis.

More flexibility and no real drawbacks is all I'm seeing ... -- Sixorish (talk) 07:59, June 14, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I'm convinced that everything will be much better in every way if done correctly. There are just quite a few pitfalls that could ruin it all, such as the discrepant categorisation. Fortunately my biggest objection (of items and objects in the same table) wasn't part of the plan anyway.

Regarding quest items/objects: in my opinion everything that is required for any quest ever is a quest item/object. Hence e.g. Scimitar and Red Apple, as even though their primary uses are as weapons and food respectively (i.e. they were not designed especially for a quest), they are still quest items. Quest Items is a superstrate of all other item categories, and so are Quest Objects and Utilities of objects. This means that Quest Items and e.g. Food are not mutually exclusive categories, so they can both be true at the same time. -- Wouterboy (talk) 11:32, June 14, 2015 (UTC)

Hiding damage modifiers
Hi guys,

Any objections to removing the damage modifiers "drown" and "life drain" bars? They can stay in the table but really there are so few applications of these damage types that its existence is not valuable at all. You'll often see things like "drown 100%" even on creatures that are really strong to everything, but the reason they have 100% is because they are untested, and it's impossible to test them. -- Sixorish (talk) 11:39, July 6, 2015 (UTC)

No objections, please go ahead. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:09, July 6, 2015 (UTC)

No objections, but wouldn't it technically be possible to test Life Drain resistance by summoning e.g. a Gozzler (even though that would of course be incredibly annoying and impractical)? In any case, the little use that would have (no one's going to hunt with any of the four summonable creatures capable of doing life drain damage specifically because of this ability anyway) won't be worth it either. -- Wouterboy (talk) 12:10, July 6, 2015 (UTC)

I suppose you're right. I believe DS had their "life drain" attack changed to death damage, not sure about skeletons or gozzlers. Drown can be tested by summoning underwater as well. However, unless someone wants to devote a lot of time testing something that has little practicality, I do think it's best to remove the bars, because almost all creatures currently have "100%?" for both parameters. There is still one possible use case: Hellgorak. That's why I don't want to remove the information from the table. Generally useless, but where it isn't the user should be reading the strategy field anyway. -- Sixorish (talk) 12:28, July 6, 2015 (UTC)

Helping to Make Infoboxes Mobile Friendly
Hey Hunter of Dragoes and Tibia Admins!

We’re reaching out to a few of our top communities, hoping to get you on board with the migration to the new infobox markup. And we have tools to help!

‘’’Why we’re doing this’’'

Simply put: Most current infobox structure translates very poorly to mobile experiences, and indeed any device that doesn’t use desktop-style displays. On desktops and laptops, they often look amazing. The problem is that Wikia’s traffic is trending mobile.

There is an important graph from our forum post about infoboxes a couple weeks back, and I want to share it here as well:



Mobile is the future. Not just for Wikia, but for the web as a whole. Take a look at the recent trends and future growth predictions for mobile traffic - it's staggering.

We partnered with the Wikia community to create this new markup to make sure that your hard work can be displayed on mobile devices (as well as any future technologies) easily and without any new coding conventions. It’ll take some effort up front, to be sure, but we’re here to help, and the work you put in now will pay for itself tenfold in the future.

‘’’Tools we’ve designed to ease the process’’’

We’ve enabled two new features on your community. One is a tool for migrating the “old” infobox code to the new markup. It identifies templates on your wikia that look like infobox templates and places a box on the right rail of the template page. When you click the “Generate draft markup” button in this box, it opens a new tab containing a draft of your infobox using the new markup.

The second is a new feature on Special:Insights that will highlight which infoboxes on your wikia have not been migrated to the new infobox markup. It’s fairly intuitive - you can click on the infobox title link itself to see the old markup, or simply click the “Convert!” button on the right, which performs the same action as the “Generate draft markup” button.

This is our help page for the new markup. I’ll help get things rolling by converting a template or two as an example if you’d like me to, as well as watching this forum post for any questions.

This message was written in my talk page by community:User:Alwaysmore2hear, a Wikia staff member.

The box with the "Generate draft markup" button is only visible on Wikia skin.

The special page mentioned by her that lists all templates that use tables or divs (and have the "convert" button) is Special:Insights/nonportableinfoboxes.

To evaluate the importance of the suggested change, I can share with you some of our traffic data regarding mobile visitors: Given the small percentage of mobile visitors and its small growth, I wouldn't rate this project as urgent or top priority right now. But we should keep it in mind for future infoxes revamps. What do you think, guys?
 * Only 14% of our unique visits are from mobile devices;
 * This number was 10% one year ago.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 22:59, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. TibiaWiki is the kind of wiki you visit while playing Tibia and seek some help or information or a spoiler. And as you can only play it on the computer, there's almost no reason to visit wiki on mobile phone instead. We already have too much to-do if we want to polish and complete our wiki, so it wouldn't be logical to put the power into the mobile project right now. Thanks for offering the help nonetheless, Alwaysmore, it's highly appreciated.

Regards,

Cauli92 (talk) 00:25, July 23, 2015 (UTC)

Template:Price to Sell
Hey guys,

Template:Price to Sell contains these keys which do not have corresponding articles. This usually happens because we move pages around, but I'm not sure about their new page names or if they've just been deleted. -- Sixorish (talk) 01:59, July 26, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for looking at the case, Six, and sorry for sending you an email from a wrong Gmail account, I have them sort of merged so I only need to login on one. Filled the most names, but there were few inconsistencies - you can see them when you edit the page.

Cauli92 (talk) 09:14, July 26, 2015 (UTC)

Wow, good job. I've gone and fixed those links on the template. Oriental Shoes and Opticording Sphere are strange cases, it's possibly due to bad API responses (the server thinks a few pages have no revisions). Oh, and for the record: there were no instances of the text "Heat Shield" on any page. -- Sixorish (talk) 11:22, July 26, 2015 (UTC)

Went easy, most of them popped up when I entered old name into the search bar. Opticording Sphere isn't a strange case, it was just firstly added as OPTICORDING SPHERE(with Capslock) what I guess might've caused inconsistencies. However, I could not find anything like that related to Oriental Shoes, so you are probably right about that API thing.

About the Heat Shield, thanks for checking! The problem was something different though - when I looked at Flint page with fresher mind I've noticed it was caused by a price unnecessarily added in his sell list - since he sells it for the highest price, there should be nothing after the name(I didn't think it's basing on it before). It's all good now.

Cauli92 (talk) 11:58, July 26, 2015 (UTC)

Other page that is affected by renaming item pages is Template:GetClass. A way to verify if an item should be added to that list is by checking (pay attention to NPC pages).

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 02:45, July 27, 2015 (UTC)

Lists of near-copies

 * Magic (Book), Magic by Puffels (Book), Two Kinds of Spells (Book)
 * Spells (Book) - burnt out is distinct from complete ones..?
 * more?

discussion
Guys, the way we're handling near-copies of books at the moment is flawed. For example, we currently have four different pages for what is practically the same book (Magic (Book), Magic by Puffels (Book), "Two Kinds of Spells (Book)", Spells (Book)). I propose the following: we retain all different versions, but list them on the same page in a similar fashion to how translations are handled (as can be seen here). A simple note saying which version can be found where would suffice. This would also solve the problem of having to think up some random-ass name for a burnt-out book, as these can be treated the same as near-copies. Your thoughts on this, please? -- Wouterboy (talk) 12:04, July 29, 2015 (UTC)

But if those near-copies have different authors, locations etc. I think it's easier to have separate pages. Can you give an example of a burnt book which is similar to an existing untouched book? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:44, July 29, 2015 (UTC)

Just check the Old Fortress Library for plenty of examples. As for authors, books as similar as the ones I mentioned must have been written by the same author, and if they haven't been, it's a clear case of Tibian plagiarism. Also, I don't see how different locations would matter. We don't have three pages for e.g. The First Creatures I (Book) just because it can be found in three separate places. The differences between books near-copying one another are so negligible we can treat those books as one wholly unique book, while still acknowledging there exist different versions of the same text. -- Wouterboy (talk) 13:51, July 29, 2015 (UTC)

I like the idea of consolidating texts where possible and think we should capture all possible unique info per book as Bennie said. We already allow for up to 5 booktype and returnpage parameters so what if we allow for more texts, location, and implementations?

I just edited Template:Infobox Book with these and made User:DM/Book with the above noted 4 Magic books. Each book is listed separated in text section with the booktype + returnpage + implemented, then its text.

The first implemented will be in topleft but all will be by their respective text and have a category. Booktypes, returnpages, and locations will stay but each in same order, left to right : oldest to newest. Just one author parameter but multiple can be listed there and it is apparent from the text who the author is. Related pages should be the same if they are all "near-copies".

Also i would want the extra consolidated pages to become redirects, even if unused, to preserve edit history, which is more important to a wiki than having excess unused redirects.

What do you think? --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 19:54, August 1, 2015 (UTC)

This is a good change, but I would recommend only adding books that are reasonably intended to be copies of each other. Burnt out books, while they may seem to be part of an existing book, are obviously intentionally unique (CipSoft intended to put those dots there to signify missing text). Books that, for example, deviate from an original text such as with altered spelling are most likely books that CipSoft forgot to fix because updating one book does not reflect other books that may have the same content. A master book should be created for the books which have been updated, but not books that are intentional copies of master books. -- Sixorish (talk) 09:40, August 2, 2015 (UTC)

I like your implementation of it, Dracinus, it looks good. And you bring up a good point there, Sixorish. Problem is we need to have a policy for naming burnt-out versions of books instead of having to pick random names as if it's just a normal book. I've seen stuff like 'Worn Book - Lorem Ipsum' but I don't think that's a good way of handling it. Ideally burnt-out books would have the same name as the originals and distinguished from those by naming their pages 'Lorem Ipsum (Worn Book)' or something, but I don't know. -- Wouterboy (talk) 10:27, August 2, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this topic up, Wouterboy. Good changes to the infobox, DM. And I totally agree with you, Six. One thing worries me, though. What if we have, let's say, 3 spawns of a certain book. Their text used to be identical, but the Content Team fixed a few typos on one or two of them. Now we have 3 spawns, but only 2 variants of the text. Would it be possible to list the two different texts but the 3 locations and return pages with the infobox book like it is now?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 16:57, August 2, 2015 (UTC)

Hunter, i think my last change will handle things correctly as long as parameters are correct. See Flags of the World (Book) or my test Book page. Most pages with multiple booktypes, returnpages will already work but a few may need adjustments like adding locations.

Until we can determine a one-size-fits-all criteria to decide which books can be consolidated, just list any here and we can vote. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 21:49, August 2, 2015 (UTC)

Uhh... we don't want the location + implementation note to be displayed inside the text space, right? -- Wouterboy (talk) 13:00, August 3, 2015 (UTC)

I left the notes with booktype per location to contrast it with that info placed above each book description; it seems more logical to more to see the data by each variation. I think it can be insightful to show when each variation was implemented but it is also not unreasonable that there would be only one date so i can go either way. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 04:39, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I'm all for that info to be displayed, but shouldn't it be in front of the inverted commas rather than inside the text space? Now it just looks awkward... and is it really necessary to have that info be displayed at all when a book only comes in one variation? -- Wouterboy (talk) 07:42, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

The quotes are now just around each set of text and the info does not show if there is only the text(1) parameter. Better? Unfortunately this complexity assumes certain things about parameters (shouldn't be blanks, expects certain matching ones) so there are probably books out there that do not look quite right and need to be corrected. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 16:13, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Looks very good indeed. Thank you! -- Wouterboy (talk) 19:34, August 4, 2015 (UTC)

Update that 3 of the Magic books have been merged to Magic (Book), while the burnt one is just linked. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 14:33, September 28, 2015 (UTC)

Looking good, but if a book is added to a new area with unchanged contents (e.g. The Shattered Isles (Book) there's no need for all of the separate implementation parameters, right? I thought the idea was to make them only apply to books whose contents can vary... -- Wouterboy (talk) 08:40, September 30, 2015 (UTC)

In cases like The Shattered Isles (Book) only "implemented", and not "implemented2" - "implemented5", would be needed as the others are identical to the first up to "implemented6" which is different so at least should be there. While 2-5 are not necessary it provides consistency and if later a new version appears then they will show up next to their booktype and location. The disadvantage is cluttering the page but i don't think it is that bad. Also i have no intention to add these to every book page except where there are different texts, currently and for future updates. --DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 20:58, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

No, that's the thing: there's only one version of that book, so only one implementation date is needed. It is when books have more versions that we make distinctions by separate implementation dates for a little bit more individuality on the versions' parts. Otherwise it would be the same as saying e.g. Earth (Tile) is implemented anew with every update... -- Wouterboy (talk) 22:16, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

Introducing New Gaming Footers
Game Footers

The new game footers are brought to you by Encyclopedia Gamia and our very own Games Hub. The basic goal is simple: draw together Wikia communities in one location that enjoy the same genres and hopefully expose them to some new games and communities they might be interested in. Our secondary goal is to try and connect editors looking for help with members and administrators from other wikias who are interested in helping them out, whether it be with content, technical knowledge, or insight gleaned from running a community.

How do I get my site included in the Wikia games footer?

If you haven't already been approached, feel free to include your site in the submission section below in the genre you feel is most appropriate for the game you cover. Note that, with rare exception, a game should only be placed in one footer.

Here are some other things to consider:


 * A member or members of the site should be willing to help those that might ask for assistance in creating their own wikia. Obviously this is at member discretion; members aren't absolutely required to answer every request for help, nor should they if the query is unrealistic and/or no one has the know-how.


 * Any site participating in the footer will have a page created on the Games Hub for their franchise for more exposure. Members are encouraged to double-check this entry once it is live and may take ownership of the page.


 * Any site participating in the footer will have each individual game in their franchise created on Encyclopedia Gamia for more exposure. Members are encouraged to double-check these entries once they are live and may take ownership of the pages.


 * Backgrounds are transparent and links/text are set to match the site's settings.


 * The new footers are mobile-friendly.


 * Though intended to stretch the entire width of a main page, the footer can also fit into the left rail, if so desired.

My game's genre isn't included.

In most cases a game can fit into multiple categories, so the best should be chosen when possible that most closely matches the genre. Rogue-like games, for instance, aren't included because many games feature stealth elements. Instead, they can be found within the Action-Adventure footer.

Should the situation arise where another footer is potentially needed, one may be created, but only if 1) the genre can't be included in any other category and 2) there are enough games for the footer.

I already have a footer.

For footers that were created and maintained by Wikia staff, these will be replaced with the new footers.

Footers created by users will not be touched at this time.

Submit your site!

Raylan13 ( talk )

I've spoken to CipSoft - Tibia's developer - and I've been thinking about this for some time now. Just to make things clear...
 * 1) What you're saying is that the current "Around Wikia's network" footer will be replaced by something like w:Template:FooterMMOGames, right?
 * 2) What happens if we don't choose a game genre?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 20:57, September 2, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with that particular template (Wikia network), but the ones being replaced are specific to gaming. The footer you link to as the new one is correct, however ;)

The games in the current boxes are placeholder only so people can see how they look filled in. If a site doesn't sign up for a particular genre they won't be included in any of the footers. Raylan13 ( talk ) 21:13, September 2, 2015 (UTC)

Emailconfirmed custom permissions
Hi Tibia admins

We got a bug report from one of your users that as of yesterday, they were unable to edit. They get an error stating that they don't have the right permissions. Here, permissions are customized so that the "emailconfirmed" group is required for most editing actions. Since that is the only special permission setup here, I suspect it's related. This user is emailconfirmed, so it's a bug that they are getting the error.

We're looking into this, but I wanted to reach out in case you're hearing from other users. Also, if you have any details that seem relevant, let me know! Thanks. -BertH (help forum | blog) 15:59, September 3, 2015 (UTC)

I don't suppose it was User:Mathias? He tripped an abuse filter and lost his autoconfirmed status. I just reinstated that. -- Sixorish (talk) 02:01, September 4, 2015 (UTC)

Yep, it was me. Thanks, Sixorish.
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 10:41, September 4, 2015 (UTC)

Psst, this is a 50 zone and you're going 100. I reinstated it again and changed the filter a bit, unfortunately if you want to mass-edit you need to wait a while between every few edits. -- Sixorish (talk) 11:35, September 4, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks again. Is there no way around this? It’s really annoying, especially because once the ban occurs, there is no way for me to contact you about it. I can only sit and wait until an admin notices.
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 12:14, September 4, 2015 (UTC)

There really isn't. Vandalism was really bad a while back so we had to implement rules to slow them down enough for an administrator to handle it. The filter you're getting caught by is a simple rate-limit. If you have a lot of edits to perform you will just have to take a breather between every 3-4. -- Sixorish (talk) 12:31, September 4, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for answering this! Much appreciated :) -BertH (help forum | blog) 00:10, September 5, 2015 (UTC)

Am I auto banned too? I literally cannot add plain text to talk pages without my actions being blocked for "shortened spamlinks" and such. Mandatory Fun (talk) 03:40, September 5, 2015 (UTC)

Hey,

You're not banned but the abuse filter is picking up on your input as containing a link. I'm guessing you're using Wikia's visual editor which adds HTML to the output. I've tweaked the rule so that it shouldn't pick up on that anymore. Thanks for bringing this up. -- Sixorish (talk) 04:21, September 5, 2015 (UTC)

vandalism
Is there a difference between doing a rollback to prior edit versus undoing to the last good edit (assuming vandalism occurred multiple times since last good edit)? At some point it was mentioned to undo, which takes longer to check history, which made sense to me at the time but now there does not seem to be a difference.

Somewhat unrelated, I think we need a consistent approach to protecting pages. I made User:DM/Protect, similar to pages Sixorish made, with cascading protection to link to some of the repeatedly vandalised pages as well as some of the fake/spam files and pages. Perhaps there can be an official page where we link articles to protect when needed that we can all update based on the current patterns.

Length of protection time can vary from 1-3 months for more frequently updated pages (anything new; more opinion-based articles) and 6 months+ for less frequent pages (not new towns; established NPCs, items, quests).

--DM ><((°> Contribs <°))>< talk to me 02:40, November 30, 2015 (UTC)

Filter 14
Filter 14 has been acting up today and disallowed edits by me and User:Mahatesh (I temporarily shut it off to get my edit across anyway). Could anyone fix this filter? -- Wouterboy (talk) 20:58, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

I had problems with it too, so I decided to disable it till we find a way to fix it.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 18:58, December 10, 2015 (UTC)

Background
Could there be an option to choose from some backgrounds or remove this one or upload your own?

Because I acctually hate this background and do not feel like looking at that ugly ogre face for 6 months. :P Tustanuxo (talk) 08:22, December 10, 2015 (UTC)

Whether the ogre's face will be visible to you or not depends on your screen resolution as well as the background image's dimensions. If Cip decided to use the 1600 × 800 version as their background, we should do the same (hopefully the ogre's face will be gone :P). That's probably the most suitable resolution for the majority of Tibia players. I'm going to make the change now. Give me your feedback. :)

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 18:58, December 10, 2015 (UTC)

This is of course possible to do in your own css file. Edit Special:Mypage/wikia.css (assuming you use the default wikia skin). Add the following code: body.background-fixed.skin-oasis, body.background-dynamic.skin-oasis, body.has-trans-bg { background: url('http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tibia/images/2/2d/Background_Artwork_10.9.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151209002508&path-prefix=en') no-repeat fixed center top #000000 !important; }

The url can be changed into anything you want. The "!important" makes it override the default background. Not sure if it directly works, probably need to clear your cache or something. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:50, December 10, 2015 (UTC) )

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Tousand times thanks you both.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">@Hunter of Dragoes, after you changed the background it looked alot better already.

<p style="font-weight:normal;">The css command works perfectly. It looks so beautiful now (prestine white snowy landscape) :D :D

<p style="font-weight:normal;">Tustanuxo (talk) 11:46, December 14, 2015 (UTC)

I would be in favor of reverting the background to the old one in a few weeks, when the update hype has lowered. It isn't necessarily a rule that we update our background to sync with Tibia's. -- Sixorish (talk) 14:36, December 14, 2015 (UTC)

It's true. What about a poll to decide our background?

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 01:27, December 15, 2015 (UTC)

Good idea Hunter, we haven't had a poll in a while. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:48, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

Mapper
User:Mathias spoke to me briefly in-game and suggested we use his maps instead of our own for the Mapper. What do you guys think about this? -- Sixorish (talk) 12:10, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

I'm fine with using anyone's as long as they are accurate. -- Wouterboy (talk) 15:00, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

Previous discussion: http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Mapper#Feel_free_to_use_images_from_the_tibia-map-data_project.21

IMHO it makes sense to concentrate all map exploration efforts in one place rather than every wiki/map download site having slightly different maps that are all incomplete in their own unique way. The latter situation is not helpful for players, wiki users, map maintainers, or anyone, really.

This centralized place does not necessarily have to be the tibia-map-data project; I was suggesting it since it has the benefit of being open-source and under version control (and because I, a long-time TibiaWiki user, happen to be maintaining it). If anything is missing, anyone can contribute.

You're allowed to hotlink to the maps in PNG format, which would have the benefit of the maps always being up to date without having to update the TibiaWiki mapper or its assets at all. The URLs follow this format:

https://tibiamaps.github.io/tibia-map-data/floor-07-map.png

Floor IDs range from 00 to 15.

In case hotlinking it not possible (or not desirable) I'd suggest setting up a script that pulls in these images and copies them over to TibiaWiki, overwriting the map images for each floor, to minimize the effort needed to update the maps.

Quick technical note: consider applying the following CSS to the images displayed in the mapper, so that they still look sharp when zoomed in:

img { image-rendering: pixelated; }

What do you think?
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 16:29, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

Looks cool! I'm in favour to try this. We can always revert to the old situation if github gets too slow or offline or whatever. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:47, December 16, 2015 (UTC)

Actually, can someone with editing privileges already make this small change? It’s independent from the other changes we’re discussing. Simply add the following CSS:


 * 1) minimap_img { image-rendering: pixelated; }
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 12:47, December 17, 2015 (UTC)

I guess this edit will do? It's not exactly the css id you mentioned, but I can't test it either, the mapper is not visible for me (due to code review?).

Edit: never mind, a null edit restored the mapper for me. Pressing ctrl + F5 and inspecting element via F12 revealed the css edit worked in Google Chrome. In Firefox the mapper already showed pixelated for me in the past. Thanks for the suggestion Mathias! -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:35, December 17, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Bennie — much better now on Chrome and Opera!

You can remove the line that says  as no browser supports that. (Leave the -prefixed version, though.) Update: done.
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 21:40, December 17, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, now that https://github.com/tibiamaps/tibia-map-data/issues/14 is fixed it seems like a good time to switch to tibia-map-data for the TibiaWiki mapper. How do we go about this? Do we hardcode the image paths per floor as https://tibiamaps.github.io/tibia-map-data/floor-07-map.png etc. in the Mapper, or do we somehow set up a script that automatically copies those files every 24 hours or so and mirrors them on TibiaWiki?
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 21:07, March 20, 2016 (UTC)

Both ideas have issues that are hard to overcome. I think the easiest, for now, is to create a script that will download the GH files and upload using the MW API. Wikia have disabled direct URL uploads1 so we can't use that. So, how can we create such a script? Could it be as simple as running a few cURL commands?

$.ajax({   url: '/api.php',    type: 'POST',    data: {        action: 'upload',        token: mw.user.tokens.values.editToken,        url: 'https://tibiamaps.github.io/tibia-map-data/floor-07-map.png',        filename: 'test_mapper.png',        comment: 'testing mapper uploads',        format: 'json'    } }); I'll see if Wikia is willing to enable this for us, but they probably have good reasons for it being disabled. If we can't, then we'll just have to work around it. -- Sixorish (talk) 08:08, March 21, 2016 (UTC) --- I’m fine with either solution. When it comes to the hotlinking approach (which definitely seems the simplest to implement to me), what issues are you thinking of? Do you not trust GitHub Pages to keep the URL alive forever, or something like that?
 * 1 Test:
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 11:16, March 21, 2016 (UTC)

Wikia have replied, basically confirming that it's extremely insecure so they won't enable it.

I thought there was a problem with hotlinking because we'd have to rewrite our scripts, which would mean the code needs to be reviewed, and might be rejected because we haven't yet converted to comply with Wikia's new restrictions (i.e. Mapper/Code needs to be moved to the MediaWiki: namespace, and other restrictions that would take a long time to change). But it seems that since we're still using the old system, we can change the URLs and bypass the review system.

I've gone ahead and changed those 15 image links, but I couldn't change the link to the HQ floor 7. I guess the mapper code needs to be edited to remove this? I think it was meant for legacy browsers without pixelated image CSS rules. -- Sixorish (talk) 02:04, March 22, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Sixorish! It seems the change to the new images has caused all existing Mapper permalinks to be off. This is because the TibiaWiki map images used to have dimensions of 2048×2304, i.e. they all had an empty/unused area of 256px extra at the bottom, compared to the new files. I suppose we could handle this offset in code?
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 16:50, March 24, 2016 (UTC)

Ah, never mind — I just fixed it in Mapper/Code.
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 16:55, March 24, 2016 (UTC)

Possible issue: our minimap template uses the old maps, and if we hotlink to the new maps we won't be able to scale the images. Only solution I can think of that doesn't involve JS is to have all zoom states in the CSS. -- Sixorish (talk) 04:38, March 26, 2016 (UTC)

That sounds easy enough to do. is 200% zoom in CSS,  300%, etc.
 * — Mathias (profile, talk) 01:13, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

Zoom is non-standard and not implemented by Firefox, translate: scale(x, y) is CSS3, not sure if we can assume our users are using IE9+ just yet. The current method being used is to enlarge the images and cater for the offsets, but that's not going to work because CSS width: 200% relates to the width of the container element, and we can't determine the dimensions of the map images. Any other ideas? -- Sixorish (talk) 13:06, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

Vandal:VANDAL'S USERNAME
Hello, i am a new member of tibiawiki and yesterday i made a misstake editing the topic "Frozen Heart" with a new owner. But today i realised that its not the same frozen heart the owner has, because it was from thais museum. So i changed it back to the old statistik, before i was editing something new. I am sorry for this misstake and it will not happening again. Sincerely, Okivankidoki

It's all good, thanks for correcting your mistake. Also, the Abuse Filter blocked you when you tried editing this talk page. Sorry about that. -- Sixorish (talk) 14:51, February 3, 2016 (UTC)

Loot Calculator
Our Loot Calculator (Calculators) needs some improvements. A user complained about not being able to see which items should be sold at which NPCs directly from our tool. My suggestion is to merge the 2 main tables. This way, by clicking on City or NPC column, someone could clearly see which items should be stored together.

Another point I noticed is that NPCs from Rookgaard, Dawnport and Island of Destiny should be ignored.

<font color="Blue">Hunter of Dragoes (<font color="Blue">Talk  · <font color="Blue">Contribs  · <font color="Blue">Admins ) - 07:17, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

Sprites and .dat
i was wondering what is the current method in which we get/create sprites from. so far i have added a few in multiple methods (non of which is ideal) : now, the sprite sheets can be found here : https://secure.tibia.com/flash-regular-bin/catalog-content.xml along with a dat file (i assume a different one the one of the standalone). seeing as some of the guys here are web developers and programmers doing some great things, can't there be a better way to add new sprites? I am assuming the data of the sprites location on the sheet for each item is on the dat file, so doing something as this :
 * older times : extracted the spr file from standalone client and looked for the item then created a gif of it using GIMP.
 * more recently : looked for the sprite sheet from the flash client and created a gif out of it using GIMP.

theoretically shouldn't be a problem, please tell me what you think, obviously i might be completely wrong about my assumptions.. Vapaus (talk)

Wow, your code shows some nice tricks I didn't know were possible with pure css. User:Daniel Letalis made something like you suggest with html, css and javascript, a way to combine information from the flash client .png sprite files and the xml file which can be found here and is currently up-to-date with 10.92 (Daniel and I can update it).

I scroll to the desired sprite, take a screenshot of all frames and process it with GIMP (adding so-called guides every 32 pixels and then slice the image with "guillotine" makes the separate animation frames, then those images need to be opened as layers in a new image which can be saved as .gif with desired speed), so it is still a bit time consuming to make animations, especially large ones. It would be cool to automate the process, if the CSS animation could be saved as .gif; would be awesome.

You have any ideas for smart tricks? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 20:07, April 16, 2016 (UTC)

i did it like that cause it was simple to demonstrate but this animate thing is still new and is limited (i couldn't manage to animate a monster or an outfit for example since they aren't in order and you cant choose specific frames) doing it in js (which i barely know) gives you much more control.

this tool is perfect, and much better than what i expected, all it needs is an option to convert it to gif or export it to single frames. my idea would be just something automated like let's say, a new update comes, and the a tool checks for new item ids since the previous one, creates the gifs and uploades them into a buffer page under the update number so we could just rename them later.. just a thought and obviously something i don't know how to do..that + forking tibialyzer to update data straight to the wiki, those are my ideas that aren't worth much since i cannot execute them..

but even a manual exporting of new item and creature ids/sprites would be very useful

tell me what you think/is possible..

Vapaus (talk)

I don't think it's really necessary to automatically list new sprites, I usually have no trouble finding them. Automatic export to GIF would be a huge timesaver though, a simple google search gives this github project, seems it is possible to do in javascript.

What do you mean with "forking tibialyzer to update data straight to the wiki". You mean data like names of new items and creatures encountered by tibia players using tibialyzer? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 12:29, April 17, 2016 (UTC)

i just thought it could give an advantage with popular new quests, like Ferumbras' Ascension Quest which is still missing the monsters - and new updates which people often check a lot,it's just a thought. same with tibialyzer - it could theoretically get accurate loot statistics, npc transcripts,accurate bosses hit-points, per server mini world changes and events, raids etc.. but this is a huge complicated idea to tackle

Vapaus (talk) 13:19, April 17, 2016 (UTC)

The possible vandalism message
Hi, i ended my labour in order to calculate all bosses hp (when possible), but often the red box appear. I must do something to prove is not vandalism ? :- /

ty

Tibialover (talk) 23:48, April 19, 2016 (UTC)

User:Hunter of Dragoes has added you to the list of trusted users. Thanks for your contributions! -- Sixorish (talk) 14:35, April 20, 2016 (UTC)

Portable Infoboxes
Hey guys, What do you think of starting to merge some infobox templates to this portable type? I played around a bit and made an example here (colors, borders and other styling not done yet). The cool thing is, we can still use parser functions. Also, it looks better on cellphones than our old table infoboxes. I think some of our infoboxes which didn't had their revamp by Sixorish yet, could really use this upgrade. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 15:17, May 1, 2016 (UTC)